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“Wait… Polarizing Is a Bad Thing?”

By Nikki Stafford,

  Filed under: Lost News
  Comments: 173

Hey all: Sorry I haven’t been here much; it’s been an insane season where I’ve barely had time to update my own blog, much less this one, and I apologize for not being here more (I missed you guys!) But after that staggering finale, I wanted to post something here.

After the episode “Across the Sea” aired and audiences were pretty divided down the middle about loving it or hating it, Damon tweeted what I’ve used as my title for this post. (I, as the geeky Lost fan, just sniggered and went, “He said POLAR.”) He wasn’t just talking about “Across the Sea”… he knew what was coming in two more weeks.

Last night the episode aired and I was absolutely shattered. The show I had followed and researched and written about and LOVED above everything else was now finally over. I was saying goodbye to the characters. I literally dropped everything (pen, paper) and just sat on the couch with my face in my hands, rocking back and forth and sobbing uncontrollably. The patio door was open behind me and I imagined all of my neighbours, outside setting off fireworks because it’s the long weekend here in Canada, all wondering what the heck is wrong with that woman in her living room over there. I was just… wrecked. But those tears were cathartic tears, saying goodbye to the show, goodbye to the characters… and goodbye to the anticipation of this wonderful finale. But what I was NOT saying goodbye to, was the speculation.

For yes, this finale has left things WIDE open for the viewers. The same people who thought The Sopranos ending was a major cop-out, leaving things to the viewers to figure out, will hate this ending. And yet, think about what would have happened had they actually provided answers. First, most people would hate them. “Uh… the whispers are the bad people stuck in an island purgatory?? That is LAME,” shouted many when they finally answered that question. “So let me get this straight… after 5 years of documenting every single frakkin’ use of those six numbers, they just HAPPEN to be the random freakin’ numbers that Jacob used when he was listing off the candidates? Oh my GOD that is stupid,” said many people when they revealed THAT one.

Without sounding totally sycophantic here, I actually was fine with both of those answers. I thought they happened a little abruptly, with Hurley saying, “Hey, I think I know what the whispers are!” in one, and Smokey saying, “Jacob had a thing for numbers” in the second one.

So if they’d come out and said, “This is what the island is. And this is what that shiny light was. Oh, and Jacob and his brother actually turned out to be nothing more than this. And this is the sideways world… and this is how the Dharma Initiative found the island… and the Others originated by this…” we would all be sitting here right now simply debating whether or not we liked their answers. But look what we’re doing instead – we’re talking, REALLY talking about what this series was about, and what it meant to us.

Yesterday I wrote up a tribute of what this show means to me. I come to Lost on a very personal level, with my own views of faith and family and political affiliations and beliefs and set of morals and personal “rules,” to use a Lost term. And every single person on this blog and watching Lost comes at it with their set, and they are unlike the set of anyone else watching. So they made it personal – they gave us this finale that offered us a way to interpret it in a personal way, while also giving us the tools we could use to actually figure it out for ourselves.

After I got up from the couch, still sobbing, and made my way over to the kitchen table to do the CTV chat (fittingly, with my giant Sopranos poster behind me that you would have seen if you’d caught me on the National last Friday), I still had tears streaming down my face as I logged into the chat, and after I was in there, I did a quick flick over to Twitter to see the reactions. It ranged from, “Thank you, Damon and Carlton, for 6 wonderful years” to, “I hope you rot in hell and your house burns down.” SERIOUSLY. Someone wrote that.

It actually made me pretty angry to see such personal comments and personal attacks made against them, and I considered recording an angry video podcast. But I changed my mind this morning after sleeping on it, and realized that when you make a show that’s as personal as Lost is, unfortunately you’ll have to bear the brunt of personal attacks when people are unhappy with what you gave them. A lot of Skaters will be upset with the show, for example. I was actually surprised at how much Kate did NOT choose Sawyer… But for me, not having shipped in the past 6 years, it certainly didn’t cast a pall on anything for me. I could understand why it would for those who had really wanted Kate to end up with Sawyer. If it’s any consolation to them, I really thought that Kate taking off in the Ajira flight was a suggestion she WOULD end up with Sawyer off the island, and would take him back to meet her bestie, Cassidy, and he’d meet his daughter, and Claire and Aaron would come and live with Kate, and they’d all live happily ever after as one big communal family. But that’s because, as much as I claim not to, I really love happy endings sometimes. BUT… if they’d actually presented that ending to me on screen, I would have called it trite and ridiculous. It makes more sense in the rainbow world of my brain.

So… polarizing is a bad thing? While I’ve said all along that I didn’t want the Lost finale to overshadow the series that came before it, I love how much people are talking about it today. I doubt the end of 24 or Law & Order will spark this much discussion… nor will ANY ending this season. For the next few weeks, that finale WILL overshadow the rest of the series, but for the serious fans like us, we’re already going back over the series and pulling together the threads that led us to this place. And maybe in doing so, some people who either originally disliked it or were confused by it will suddenly get it, and it’ll change their view of it.

Some people will hate it, yes. But if you loved the show up until episode 6.16 and then didn’t like the finale, are you REALLY going to dismiss the six years that came before it? Did people dismiss the entirety of Seinfeld just because the ending sucked? No. And while this is obviously different – Seinfeld was not a serial with an overarching mystery that pulled everything together and instead was a series of standalone episodes – I think the things we loved about this show were still present in the finale, whether you liked it or not. Sawyer and Kate didn’t end up together in any obvious way, but the writers (and Josh and Evangeline) gave us Sawyer and Kate to begin with, and many moments of the two of them to savour. Perhaps you didn’t like things coming down to Jack’s perspective in the finale, but you can’t argue that Jack wasn’t integral to everything.

Because I loved it, I’m afraid the only way my opinion could change would be to like it less. And I’m sure once I start picking all of the pieces apart that could very well happen. (I mean, the obvious thing that jumped out at me this morning was the sadness that this WASN’T Locke’s journey, as I’d hoped it would be.) But for now, I loved it, and will continue to look at it in the days and weeks to come. So let’s keep talking. 😉

Nikki Stafford is the author of the Finding Lost series of books, which offer episode-by-episode guides to each season. The guide to season 5 is now available at Amazon.com, and is currently working on the season 6 book, which is available for pre-order. She posts regularly on her television blog, Nik at Nite.

From TVFrenzy:

  • autochthonous

    Very well thought out, Nikki.

    Just a small thought: the show started with Jack. It ended with Jack. I think that everyone who is disappointed in this finale had preconceived notions and aren’t allowing the writers of the show to finish the telling the story the way they wanted. I found the ending extremely satisfying. It did exactly what the season 5 finale did: took what we thought the story was about and made it bigger. Gave it more gravitas.

    I think in the coming months, people who really want to understand the show will get that this is exactly where the show was always headed.

    • Remus

      This might have made a great two season show. Great start and great ending. Whole lot of wandering into dead ends to get from the pilot to the finale. Dead ends. Not closed loops. Not completed. Instead some dead ends where literally blown up this season.

      Other core mysteries got the two line “You’re solved!” treatment. Take the finale, how much weight was put on the few lines spoken by Christian Shepard. A man who had less overall screen time through the years than Vincent!

      • Chris_Crocker_Hates_Lost

        Like everyone else, I too struggled with what I was feeling as I watched the final moments of these characters who I have followed for the past six years. One of the principal tensions for me as the series wound down was ruminating on the difference between “answers” and “meaning.” I believe you can have meaning without necessarily having answers. Invariably, for me, the “answers” that we were given (e.g. the whispers) were infinitely less satisfying than the “answers” I came to in the course of trying to suss out the “meaning” of what happened to our Losties, and how that meaning impacted my own view of the world and my place in it.

        If you take Season 1 and Season 6 together, they make a pretty complete story of the passengers of Oceanic Flight 815 and the stories of the frailties and earthly attachments which kept them bound and how they learned to “let go.” The story details and motifs of Seasons 2 through 5 were an amalgamation of most every religious and philosophical idea mankind has ever come up with, all in the context of trying to understand “the island.”

        Using the Island’s heart, the glowing light cave that was the source of all things, as a stand-in for the ultimate higher power and source of all things, the show used mankind’s various systems of thought and belief to dig deeper into the main issues of the nature of redemption. We saw the extremes of both science and faith, from the Dharma Initiative (Radzinski’s reckless attempts at drilling to the source and ‘changing the world,’ as he put it) to understanding it through near superstitious religious belief (Jacob, Mother) that man’s thirst for knowledge was inherently evil and posed a threat to the mystical meaning of life.

        I guess my much-belabored point is this: none of those stories are dead-ends, in my own opinion. I take them as story elements intended to activate me (or any viewer) to think and diligently explore the redemption and the ultimate meaning of life, and glean meaning through whichever elements impact me the most personally. Perhaps, through this meaning, I’ll find some “answers.” At the very least, I feel enriched for sharing this story on a deeper intellectual, emotional and spiritual level than any other film or television show I can recall. Hopefully, as the days, months and years go by, and I recall with great fondness the characters moments that thrilled me, touched my heart, infuriated my mind, and challenged my way of thinking at every step of the way, I’ll settle into a thankfulness that I was able to share it with so many people, most of whom I have never met, and was part of something so collectively impactful.

        As Christian Shepard told his son, Nobody does it alone.” And perhaps one day, I, too, will remember all the people who were with me in my life, and learn to let go.

        • Handsome Smitty

          Very, very well said. After that, what else really needs to be said?

        • Lostboy

          My God, Man (or Woman), that was beautiful!

          • Mr. X

            This show MELTED DOWN by finding itself on a limb (season finale of season 5) with no idea what it was going to do to resolve basic questions.

            The needless repetition of cliched themes was ultimately matched by an inability to raise the stakes any higher.

        • Andrew

          Very well put. I was satisfied with the end, and as for anything I think was unanswered (a lot less than some others seem to think) I figure I can come up with my own theories. I do know a few people I would refer to this post; hopefully it will help.

  • Kermet Key

    I know Jack was at the forefront, but I think it was the journey of Locke, Kate, Sawyer, Sayid et al.

    The story was about a moment in the history of this island and the people who had a profound impact on both the island and each other. To narrow it down to just one character’s story or to want to incorporate the entire existence of the island into the story is doing a great disservice to story and one’s self. Taken as a snapshot, a very wide one at that, the story is powerful.

    And who knows, it took a while, but there was a Star Trek: The Next Generation.

    • sara

      This is exactly how I view Lost. Other mysteries, like who built the statue, are part of other ‘losties’ stories and are not important to the Oceanic 815 people’s island lives. Lost is a very powerful story about these particular folks.

  • jessea

    I’m right there with you on the hysterical sobbing…still keeps sneaking up on me today…and also with you on the idea that it will take some time to sort things out. Right now I’m too emotional to even give The End it’s second watching, or try to make any decisions about what I think happened…At this point, what happened is that an amazing and absorbing story has ended…and that’s what it feels like…it feels like The End.

  • Jake

    I’ve watched the show religiously since the beginning, and did all I could to justify the end to myself. But honestly, the excuses for why we got no real answers are really poor. I was thoroughly satisfied with the end of the story arc and even the mythology behind the island and and the alt. But to pretend that the explanation to all our mysteries just didn’t matter? That’s just unfair.

    Look, Darlton can argue as much as they want that this was a character-based show, and can defend their ending as such, but it doesn’t change the fact that they willingly led viewers to believe that there was an intriguing science-based mystery behind all of it. Electromagnetism, the Dharma initiative, the numbers, childbirth issues, time travel, alternate realities, constants, variables, the list goes on and on and on.

    For some viewers, the character drama was not our favorite part of the show. I love the characters, don’t get me wrong, but i was intrigued by all the science-based mystery. And every step of the way, the show would turn from mythology right back to science, even in the last season. The story arc got its ending, the science did not.

    Remember man of science, man of faith? Remember the duality behind the mysteries existing on both a mythological and scientific basis? “The End” chose between them, and chose faith, with no explanation as to why one was better than the other.

    I think this is a fair criticism, and one Darlton should address. If the show was never to be about all the crazy science mysteries, why introduce them and give them importance in every season?

    • Remus

      I completely agree.

      • Lost explaining the science based answers is like Star Trek explaining Hyper Drive or Star Wars explaining The Force.

        • Andrew

          not to nitpick, but I think it was “warp drive”. i can already feel the pointed fingers and shouts of “nerd!”.

    • Widmore’s Bane

      Regardless of the science, everyone dies. The science was always a backdrop to the story of the lives, and redemptive story arcs of the characters. They were a fun and interesting storytelling device…not the point of the series.

      • Jake

        Alright, so the science didn’t matter because everyone dies? Shouldn’t that mean the love stories don’t matter either? Or Jacob and the Man in Black? What about the island; if everyone dies anyway, why does the island need protecting?

        Essentially, saying it “didn’t matter” is the very definition of a cop-out. That term gets thrown around unfairly a lot; I don’t think the purgatory/limbo explanation is a cop-out. But not answering important questions because they “don’t matter” is.

        And seriously, who is to say what “the point of the series” is? Damon and Carlton say that the characters were ultimately the point. But they weren’t the only point. If they were, there was no need for the science in the show in the first place. But honestly, I think they chose the easy way out.

        The first season was the highest rated because it was about characters. Once it became a smarter, more scifi based show, it lost a lot of its audience. But some of its audience preferred it that way. They chose to end it by appealing to the same first-season audience, at the expense of everyone who invested so much time and energy into coming up with theories about the mysteries.

        I don’t look back and hate the show. I loved it and I’m glad it gave me the opportunity to think so much about it. But to end it by telling us that all didn’t matter is just mean.

        • Forever Lost

          I totally agree with both points. I loved the ending, really touching. But there was so many mysteries that was waved in my face that was either not answered, or with a blasé manner.

          And although I love the premise of all the losties meeting up together after they die, I didnt think it needed a whole season to build up to that.

          I think what people are failing to understand is that most of the people who are complaining, are not complaining about how bad the final is….but the fact we thought certain mysteries would get answered by the last ever episode.

          All I know is if anybody asks me, why the island can move, what the island was about or why the island allowed time travel….I couldnt really answer it.

          Come on, at least tell me what happened to the darma crew after the bomb went off…and what was the point of the bomb going off???…what did it really achieve? Couldn’t they all just meet up after they died without the bomb going off???

          I just think back to certain story plots and feel like it was pointless putting it in, because it didnt matter as Ive been told.

          • Mr. X

            I agree with the sentiment of this thread, and as I said below, it’s sad to see a great show MELT ITSELF DOWN by not having the answers to its own plot questions, or not being willing to work hard enough to try to write a good season 6 ending/entirely.

            Very sad. A child could have done a better job tying this all together.

    • Desi’s Brother

      I agree with you. Well said. It is totally dishonest to say the mysteries didn’t really matter and it was all about the characters all along. that is not true.

      This ending disappointed me for that exact reason. It chose Faith over reason and made no ambiguity about it. It was the same thing for Battlestar.

      The problem with faith is that it is easy. It is all warm and comfortable and makes us feel good, as long as you don’t ask any questions.

      • john l

        Faith is easy? John Locke begs to differ.

    • Lego

      Well put! Although the character based writing was extremely strong, we get a cop out on the science. My love for this show may die because of this :\.

    • DHalo

      I would normally agree, and while you do bring up some very good mysterious that we might feel need to be solved, the finale did a great job, at least in my case, of addressing the viewers as well as each other. The message to “Let Go” I’m sure was point toward us as well. And you know what? Thinking back, as much as I followed this story for its science and its intrigue (really the ONLY reason I followed it), sometimes some things are better left unsolved. I’d have no reason to talk about LOST anymore if I knew all the answers.

    • m104

      I fully agree with you.

      I will go a little bit beyond and I would say that I fell scamed by the writers. After years triying to solve this huge puzzle, more than a half of the answers are not solved.

      Some people thinks, and I agree too, this ending is the easy way. But I will tell you this ending is BAD bussines also. Becuase I feel today I’ve wasted my time watching the show, I feel fooled, and of course I’m not gonna buy the full DVD collection, maybe I will never watch the show again. That’s why I say it’s bad business, because I honestly think they have killed LOST in the years to come. They have gone from the top to the botton in 5 minutes. I think that would be a world record.

      • Been Bamboozeled

        Yup…The ending made the entire series mean nothing. If one were to take up the re-watch now, all that is needed is Season 1 and Season 6. Seasons 2-5 mean absolutely nothing, really. Unfortunately
        I truly believe that they may have been given no choice in giving a trite ambiguous ending (heart tugging closure of the characters) while leaving everything else off the boards. Too bad. I surely hope that ABC did not decide to get their money grubbing hands on this to exploit it…
        Just imaging the following failed series they could try and force on us …. “Further Island Adventures of Hurley an Ben”, “LA X: COp Force with Sawyer and Miles”…blechhh. shame the cheesy way out was taken. Makes the years and all the time trying to solve the mysteries moot, unsatisfying, and a complete waste of my time. I am out.

    • Henry Holland

      I came here to say the same thing, thanks for doing the work for me!

      The frustrating thing is that they easily could have answered a lot of the bigger questions but I guess they preferred that just as someone was about to cough up the answer, that the person die or the phones or doorbell rings or any number of infuriating stall tactics. I don’t know how many times I shouted at my TV “You bastards!”. 🙂

    • bruinonfire

      I think that you identified precisely why the show HAD TO come down on the Man of Science v. Man of Faith conflict that raged throughout the series, i.e. the resolution of a conflict necessitates that, in some way, one side wins out over the other. And, you’re right. In the end, the show chose faith over science.

      Sort of.

      I don’t know if this is going to be much consolation, but looking back on the show’s overall arc, there were some not-so-subtle hints that the key to understanding the island wasn’t about getting a good look under the hood as much as it was about learning how to coexist with it in a way that made everyone’s lives better. The Dharma Initiative came in with the best scientific instrumentation and knowledge that the 1970’s had to offer. (I’m taking a moment to snicker at dot-matrix printers and computers that use reel-to-reel magnetic tapes. Okay, done…) And…they FAILED. The people who we saw in “Across the Sea” who tried to donkey wheel a well FAILED. In fact, everyone who came to the island in an attempt to understand the science of the island and, thereby, harness it FAILED.

      This is just an interpretation, one suggested by the storylines of the show that was by no means detailed or explained by any of the characters. And, yeah, you might say that this makes the show decidedly anti-science. I think that THAT reading would be an oversimplification, but I could see how it’s allowed by the show’s narrative.

      Either way, I think the show makes a compelling case that the desire to plunder nature for the sake of knowledge itself, to destroy something beautiful for commercial or scientific gain, is of lesser importance than other things in life. In my opinion, the show suggests that the people we become, the choices we make, and the relationships we forge are ultimately more important than understanding the mechanics of the phlebotinum that makes them work. Yeah, we could split open a brain and dissect it to see just how the neurons fire at a moment of extreme stimulation, but is that pursuit nearly as important as the experience of actually loving somebody?

      I doubt my remarks will do much to make anyone disappointed with the finale suddenly happy with it. But I DO hope that we might be able to take our differing reactions as a moment of reflection: why did “The End” delight/disappoint us? What expectations did we have? Were those expectations justified by the narrative of the show? What do our expectations tell us about our own values/beliefs/hopes? Is there a salient difference between “answers” and “meaning”?

      And fruitful as I hope those discussions might be, if any of you find yourself ready to break something really expensive, remember the immortal words of MST3K:

      If you’re wondering how he eats and breathes
      And other science facts (la la la),
      Then repeat to yourself, “It’s just a show,
      I should really just relax.”

    • andyphon

      In retrospect,we should have seen it coming. All of the science types are basically killed off – Jacob and MIB’s birth-Mothers pre-scientific people, killed by Mother; Rousseau’s husband and other French scientists, killed by MIB/Sickness?/Rosseau; Dharma Initiative, gassed (save for Rudzinski who seems to have gone crazy); Daniel Farrady and Charlotte Lewis, (sadly) killed; Jack Sheperd, converted?

      That being said, I think that the men (and women) of faith and science were trying to get at the truth from their different understandings. Thus, probably when some Egyptians came to the island and encountered the birthing problem, they made a statue of Tarawat, the goddess of fertility. Jacob and MIB’s people probably had some sort of Greco-Roman scientific ideas by which they were attempting to work by (i.e. some spots do weird things to metal and so we dig there). I think the point is that the island can be discovered via both means for each group. The ending does not negate the fact that there are strange electromagnetic occurrences that can be studied. I would venture to say that this is also true of the light source. However, there are also mysteries in things such as the rules. How is it that Hurley can now change the rules and by implication bend some of the ‘unique properties’ of the island.

      That the writers chose to end with an emphasis on the religious-philosophical side worked for the narrative that they were presenting, i.e. an end to the lives of the characters and their stories. However, the story of the island moves on. Sure, I would have liked more answers (and a little more battle action in the final showdown between Jack and MIB) but I think as Nikki said, we probably would have been dissappointed. I think they were brilliant in that they leave it to us to figure out – him, isn’t that the point of science and religion? We could say maybe they just couldn’t pull it off satisfactorily, and I think that is probably true because everyone’s expectations (mine included) were so high coming into these last few episodes. I think I would then prefer this ending which allows for ample theorizing still, instead of pat answers that would merely bring anger. I am satisfied (though wouldn’t mind a movie that gives more hints at least).

    • At the end of the day–“Cherish the journey” and “It’s all about the characters” are both bullshit copouts.

      Imagine for a second, that you start a company. And for some time, that company has a fantastic run; but then it crashes and burns to the ground. You will find yourself standing in front of your loyal, tearful employees telling them that they should “Cherish the journey, but it’s all over.”

      The unforgettable, unforgivable point is that crashing and burning to the ground is not the outcome you desired. It is the outcome that sprang from your inability to shape and deliver the outcome you wanted.

      “Cherish the journey” becomes the only hook you can hang your hat on because you failed. Completely. Miserably. Failed.

      Failure is the only reason to hang your hat on “journey” as opposed to a satisfying outcome. There is a reason that Deus ex Machina is frowned upon by writers that have a brain; and these “two uppity cunts” have just demonstrated that they’re amateurs. Beyond the shadow of a doubt.

      • heythereyourself

        Good luck with life, dude.

      • dudeski

        hrush calling the producers “amateurs” is just like james brown calling ron howard a “negro.”

    • Lego

      Totally Agree, this is one of the best criticisms of the ending I’ve come across. This show became popular and gained a huge following on the premise that this was a mystery that could be solved. The writers purposefully gave us clues along the way to keep us interested. Not solve the mysteries and leaving the puzzle unfinished is one of the biggest insults I can imagine.

    • I think the child-birth issues made sense in the end because children could not be conceived after the characters had already died (i.e gone to the island) but if the child was conceived pre-death, then it meant that the child would have died as well, and also ended up on the island. If that makes any sense.

      • Um – no because they were not dead on the island. The Sideways world is the only place they were dead.

  • tabula rasa

    Well said. The only people who will be angry about “The End” are the ones who didn’t have the show end “their way” and therefore cannot accept what is. This show was an emotional, intellectual, and finally spiritual joyride that took me to places I loved being. I too sobbed, because I felt such a connection to Jack and to see him redeemed (with man’s best friend at his side) right before he passed was an image that will stick with me forever. (The symmetry of the eye opening to the eye closing was brilliant as well)

    I also liked the stained glass mural in the backround as Jack and his father are talking near the end that depicted all the religions co-existing in one place. It was as if the writers were saying, no matter what you believe, in the end we all want to be with the people who mattered and those we loved the most when we “move on”

    Bravo to the writers and producers. My life is better for having been a part of this fabulous show.

    • Flossy

      I also liked the stained glass mural behind Jack and Christian. WHen Jack entered the room, you could clearly artifacts around the room including a cross, a menorah, a Buddah statue, etc. It was more about being spiritual than being religious. A nice touch.

    • Puke-a-tory

      Well club me over the head with Mr. Eko’s “Jesus Stick”, repeatedly and as fast as you can until I concede that this was the best ending to the series. “All about the characters” and NOTHING else mattered. We will be able to discuss the ambiguity…{club, club,club} until…{club,club..} the dawn of …{club,club} meaning which all {club} will never come {club} to any meaningful conclusions…{CLUB,CLUb,CLub,Club,club……..} I..Do..believe..this..was..the..best..ever…..CLUB CLUB CLU….The Holy Grail of all TVdom, May your Datlton gods be with you…..CLub…brains spill…death…OMG PONIES,Rainbows and all my friends, come friend let us walk into the light………………………..Barf.

  • kc

    Nikki,

    Thnx for acknowledging Skaters. Logically speaking, the overall story had been pointing in the direction of Sawyer/Kate so it just seemed like a slap in the face for Darlton to go with surprise romanctic endings and give no closure to the Skate relationship. And Shannon is now Sayid’s true love, WTF???

    • Kermet Key

      You mean there wasn’t closure when Sawyer was ready to propose to Juliet? Then, when the season started, it was quite clear that Sawyer and Kate had moved on from each other (Kate went after him when he left even thought they did still have some lingering feelings.

    • Desi’s Brother

      I agree it did seem like a stretch for Kate to choose Jack when her story was all about Sawyer.

      I was happy to see Sawyer and Juliette together. It just seemed right.

      I was also glad to see Shannon and Sayid. I think it would have gone down better had Sayid mourned Shannon more and not declared Nadia to be his true love for the last 3 seasons. It is a stretch that Sayid would create an imaginary world where he could have anything he wanted and would not “go off to heaven” with Nadia —-and Shannon.

      • DHalo

        I think the truth is that he was never meant to be with Nadia, and that Shannon, being from 815, was the more important person because they had all experienced this turmoil together.

        • Rae

          Agree. To steal from someone’s comment on another site, Nadia was always telling Sayid how bad he was, while Shannon accepted him, warts and all. They also shared the Island experience, and so it makes sense to me that they would share their afterlives.

      • imfromthefuture

        Also .. Kate’s story was all about Sawyer? I love how everyone is able to talk about the three years juliet and sawyer spent togehter but everyone forgets the three years kate and jack spent togheter.. im not a shipper but come on..

        • BNJM

          They weren’t together three years, more like a week before they imploded.

          • heythereyourself

            This is an assumption, Jack and Kate lived together and got engaged and you think this all happened in one week, huh?

    • john l

      Which of these are surprise endings? I think they made it very obvious all season long that Kate and Sawyer was over. Especially in the episode where Sawyer left the temple and went back to Otherton. Sure, Shannon and Sayid isn’t everyone’s choice, but I think it was explained in his episode this season that Sayid never felt he deserved Nadia – or that she was too-closely tied to his pre-island life as a torturer. With Shannon on the island he had a fresh start. Same for her relationship with him – a fresh start from her self-centered past. I’m not saying that everyone has to be happy with the finale, but I think that they did a good job of foreshadowing a lot of what ultimately happened.

  • BNJM

    I’m not happy with the outcome of the triangle, but people who are attacking Darlton are being silly. It does no good and it only makes them look bad.

    Like you, I can believe that Sawyer and Kate will rekindle their romance and live a happy life together.

  • Amanda

    Well I loved it and while I do get that it might have been confusing to people I really don’t understand the hater reaction some are giving it. People saying it sucked or was the worst finale ever, seriously. I think some would have had this reaction no matter what they saw on the screen last night . I am glad it focused on the characters instead of solving questions. It was beautifully done and very emotionally satisfying. There are things I wish would have happened differently but I can say on the whole I am truly happy with the way a show I dearly loved ended its wonderful six years.

  • James

    i loved it. but yes, i was very much hoping that Locke was going to play a central role to the ending; he seemed so important and then… just wasn’t. i’ll never understand why they did what they did with Locke.

    • Kermet Key

      As a Locke fan, I wasn’t sure what I wanted, but I know I loved the last fight between Jack and Locke…and for the first time I was on Jack’s side.

    • ErasedSlate

      As a Locke fan, I have an appreciation for the way they ended his story. When Locke told Jack, “I hope someone does for you what you did for me,” he wasn’t talking about his legs or his surgery… He was talking about how Jack had honored him and defended his legacy in the end. So essentially, he played a very vital part in the end. He just didn’t have the fantastic resurrection scene I was hoping for.

      This is a very distracted day, and I cannot help but think about the richness and the layers of this story.

      • spacebender

        Excellent point. I’d only thought of Jack’s service to Locke in terms of his being assisted in “letting go” and therefore consenting to the surgery. I hadn’t considered the implications in the Island timeline, e.g. when Jack said to MIB “you’re not anything like John Locke”.

    • James, I can understand your point to an extent, but I don’t think you are seeing the big picture. Locke’s beliefs were ultimately the central role in the end, just his physical presence wasn’t there. Jack became a Locke disciple (A disciple is a follower and student of a mentor, teacher, or other wise figure…it doesn’t have to be biblical), and he defended Locke with venomous ferocity, enraged that MIB desecrated Locke’s memory. To me, Locke’s role wasn’t ultimately to lead, but to be the sole reason Jack was able to understand and fulfill his destiny. Locke’s redemption is fulfilled through Jack. Locke did not die in vain. I personally thought it was poetic.

  • Remus

    Is possible to love the finale and even this season and still be disappointed with how Lost ended? Of course.

    Why? Because it ended abruptly and many fans feel conned or lied to by the producers.

    It was a great ending and a great finale. The finale did pay off some of the “literary debt” that Lost built up. But was it enough? Only for last night.

    Lost has long used the metaphor of light and dark. This was appropriate. Lost was both. It offered truth and light. It also offered lies and darkness.

    Last night, the finale showed us the light and truth. In coming days, any serious thought will uncover the depth of the lies and contradictions. The producers best hope is for fans not to discuss the show tomorrow.

    Peace. Mahalo. Namaste.

  • JDR22

    Thank you for a thoughtful and honest recap. It’s very refreshing.

    I agree with you, and loved the finale. It was an incredibly emotional experience, which I look forward to having again soon.

    I think when the dust settles, and people re-watch the ending, many of the “upset” fans will feel differently. All I know is this: my wife and I have been watching since Season 3 (we didn’t like Across the Sea, by the way), and we couldn’t have asked for a more satisfying character conclusion. That’s enough for me to overlook some of the mythological shortcomings, and just love the show, warts and all.

    It was an awesome ride, one that I feel was more than worth it.

    Namaste.

  • Mylene

    Nikki,
    I wish I could still enjoy the Skate scenes we got in the whole show, and you know how many were they, but the finale ruined it, not in the sense that Kate ‘picked’ Jack, but that the writers chose not to give any meaningful Skate scene, even as a solid friendship if they really wanted to go Jate. After six years buildup relationships and important moments for them in their respective centrics was not worth a remembering scene? It was like Sawyer and Kate did nothing for each other in all these years, forgetting the mini arc, forgetting Sawyer was willing to jump from a chopper and that Kate hold onto a promise for him that caused a breakup with Jack.
    I cannot watch the Skate scenes I thought were important for the characters when obviously they weren’t, especially with Jate remembering moments like the one in I Do where she comes to beg him to save Sawyer life before she sleeps with him, and their first kiss, when Kate freaked out about her feelings for Sawyer and then ran back to take care of him.
    Sawyer looked briefly at Kate on the Ajira plane but Kate didn’t. That’s the whole point. Sawyer looking at Kate at Bernard and Rose’s cabin in The Incident and Juliet witnessing this, which ended their relationship and hen she dies? And Sawyer says ‘Thank you for everything” to Jack in The End?
    The writers had the ending they wanted to give and I can’t change that, but I won’t also try to hang on something that doesn’t make any sense to me in the whole picture now. Also, the love and consideration I had for the ship I loved for six years doesn’t let me imagine that Sawyer and Kate would be together after they took off the island for the simple reason that it sounds like a Suliet and Jate redux (these respective relationships happenned when Kate and Sawyer got separated under tragic circumstances).
    It’s all a matter of perspective I guess, but there’s no room for interpretation in the way they closed the triangle.

    • Liz79

      Well I’m not sure about that, Mylene. I agree with you that I would have loved to see a “final” scene between Sawyer and Kate. One that wrapped up their story, but for me the fact that there wasn’t a final scene left the nature of their future relationship open to interpretation. The fact that they left together and it was hinted that they lived long lives to me invites speculation to their fates and their fates together. I think the writers wanted this. Having said this what we saw last night was just how important Kate was to Jack and Jack to her and how important Sawyer was to Juliet and Juliet to her. They loved each other and that can never be denied. But you are right that it was obvious Kate and Sawyer loved each other. And sacrificed for each other. That cannot and should not be negated. I’m happy that Jack didn’t move on by himself and that Juliet had Sawyer at her side. But I don’t think this negates what Kate and Sawyer had. And the fact that they were shown leaving together and their off island fates weren’t explicitly explored shows the writers inviting that speculation. Afterall, it is possible for human beings to love more than one person. I think Sayid would agree with me.

    • sabrina

      was this the only thing you cared about in the show?

      • Mylene

        Sabrina, I didn’t care only about Skate, but Nikki talks alot about Skaters in that article, so that’s why I replied about that aspect. I have always been a John Locke hardcore fan as well and the Island. And that’s something else that let me down with the show.
        The writers inviting for Skate off island speculation is far fetching for me. They did NOTHING to imply that, and rather had Sawyer looking at Kate, who didn’t look at him and only focused on Claire. And who would care for Sawyer and Kate trying something off the island, after we know that their truelovefindyoubackinheaven are not each other? The writers made Kate’s choice clear for that finale, she suddenly doesnt give a damn about Sawyer, and Sawyer leaves the island, alone, only being reunited with his true love thanks to an Apollo bar;

    • Angie

      I completely agree with you. Sawyer and Kate’s was the only relationship that did not get any recognition or acknowledgment. It’s like Darlton never cared about them – not to give them even one last meaningful scene in the finale. And, no there was no room left open for Skate because they acted like strangers on the plane and they ended up with Jack and Juliet in the afterlife anyway.

      • KerriBeeLost

        They did have that scens where he leaned in to her… it looked like they would embrace… but then he tends to her wound. I saw real love there. That does hint that they might have had a life together after the Ajira flight. That’s left open.

    • Puke-a-tory

      Don’t forget the scene of a time travelling Sawyer crying with joy? peeping in a a Kate delivering Claire’s Bay-bee…

  • CJ

    I completely agree with your opinion. The ending gives a chance for the combination of the great storytelling of Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse and your own imagination.The show the whole time really wasnt about the mythology but rather the characters and the ending show them come full circle. There is only one question I want to be answered though. I wanted to know what Walt’s special powers were? But I guess that will have to remain in the twilight

  • Beena

    I was satisfied with the way Locke’s story played out. He was the victim of a terrible tragedy at the hands of his own father that had left him wheel-chair bound. Then, he got to the island that made him alive with hope again. So it was a huge sacrifice for him to leave the island he loved so much and that had healed the deepest of his wounds. And I have to suppose that what awaited him back in the outside world was not really what was most important in his story. What is more important, is that he was willing to overcome his fears for some greater good. His story really ended in that last sacrifice of leaving the island, in spite of Ben betraying him, or MIB taking over his corporal form, or anything else that followed. Once he went down that well and turned that donkey wheel to leave, he had made quite a redemptive leap of faith.

    Like John, Jack found his redemption, too, for the greater good and not coincidentally, down in another “rabbit” hole of light. For Jack, though, the sacrifice was in the staying, and not the leaving. Their stories have a lot of symmetry in spite of their differences, man of faith, man of science. John, in essence, helped “fix” Jack spiritually by helping him to believe.

    It seems completely fitting that Jack “fixed” John physically in the sideways world. A very satisfying “destined to be” feeling to that. And like Jack, he didn’t let go completely , even upon arriving at the church. For John, it takes him being told by Ben that he probably doesn’t need “that” (meaning the chair) anymore. Until John actually gets up out of the chair, he hasn’t let go completely.

    Anyway, that’s my take on it.

    Don’t let anything ruin your delight in LOST, Nikki!

    • They’reNotDead… wait…

      Well put, I agree totally

  • People are complaining about what we already knew: the mythology of the island was not going to be addressed and answered in the finale. The producers outright told us this, so I don’t know why so many people are docking the finale for that reason. The “Man of Science” and “Man of Faith” analogy works perfectly for the finale. Me? I’m a man of faith. I watched this television show for six seasons not because I thought the Dharma logo looked cool and wanted to know more about it, and not because I wanted to see Richard’s four-toed foot. I watched it tonight for the same reason I did in Season 1: the characters. The story was about them, not about the many island mysteries, whether we want to admit it or not. The mysteries pulled us in each week for sure, but for the first three seasons, we all experienced the “flashbacks” that gave these characters a living and breathing place in our minds. Characters died and fans would mourn. Charlie’s death in the Season 3 finale “Through the Looking Glass” was one of the saddest, as Charlie left his love Claire and her son Aaron on the beach knowing that he would not return.

    At the end of that episode, the storytelling stepped up a notch. Driving the narrative further in the form of “flashforwards” now, Season Four was one of the most interesting departures from the LOST formula, while still staying true to the show. The writers were successfully able to present a “flashforward” of our favorite characters post-island while using these as the perfect aid for continuing the island-side story. The events told would have been perfectly fine and coherent if they had followed their chronological order, but the structure of the show lends mystery to the character’s motives and continuously kept me as a viewer thinking about the events that were taking place in the show instead of viewing at face value. For instance, in the Season 4 finale “There’s No Place Like Home,” John Locke watches a Dharma instructional video about “time travelling bunnies.” Earlier in the season, Ben Linus is eating a rabbit and asks, almost comedically now, “Did [the rabbit] have a number on it?” Small nuances like this give viewers a reason to dust off their earlier LOST seasons on DVD/Blu-ray sooner rather than later, as well as the new context that tonight’s finale will certainly bestow to the show as a whole.

    LOST has always been about the characters, and tonight was no different. Some may have a difficult time accepting the post-mortem reunion of these characters, while some may dispute the semi-religious tone of that reunion. The series was ending tonight. We couldn’t get another cliffhanger due to obvious reasons, but we got the next best thing: a resolution to these character’s stories. I had a feeling that what once was the “alternate reality” was introduced and we began to see characters deceased from seasons ago, that we would see a happy ending like this. The story that LOST set out to tell from the beginning was concluded in the only way it could be. Regardless of the plot devices and unanswered mysteries from over the show’s six seasons, I remained rooted with one simple thought throughout the show’s final hours: these characters are my Constant.

    • Jake

      The Man of Science, Man of Faith example is perfect.
      Lost has always been a show about both. And its been a show about choice. So why did the writers decide that in the end, they would choose for us?

      If you are a man of faith, you may have been fully satisfied with the finale. But what if your a man of science? You are left to postulate about not only what each detail meant, but whether the writers even had a plan for it at all.

      I wasn’t expecting them to give me a checklist for all the answers. But I was expecting one final reveal, one final aha moment that told us a little bit about the science behind all of this. Something that would tell us why the numbers did this, or how the smoke monster did that, but would give us something where we could go back and try to find those specific answers ourselves, based on that final reveal. Instead, we are left with this idea that there likely was nothing tying together the numbers with the crazy island properties with the time traveling with the moving of the island, etc.

      • Eric

        Um, there is no science behind a smoke monster and island that moves in space and time.
        So any explanation of the above would seem silly IMO. Some things can’t, and shouldn’t, be explained.

        • I think this says it best!

      • Kermet Key

        The numbers were the precise calculation of every possible outcome where if Locke, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, Jack and the Kwons were the only candidates left (i.e. instead of Ben helping Hurley after Jack’s sacrifice it was Locke) then things would have ended badly in the Prime universe and all reality would collapse.

        The smoke monster was the results of the magnetic force of all the “light” combined with the C02, or darkness, of MIB, transforming him nanobot like creature that had near invulnverable power, but when the cork was removed it removed all the light from the island, including the part the connected with MIB, thus making him human again.

        There’s your answers. We could come up with 100 more. Do any of them make for a satisfying ending?

      • kaiser

        So wait a minute, you’re berating the writers for making the choice of faith over science in arguing that the show was both but you are imploring them to have given direct answers (essentially CHOOSING answers for the viewer) to a list a questions? Something about cake and eating too…

  • chris

    I mean, the obvious thing that jumped out at me this morning was the sadness that this WASN’T Locke’s journey, as I’d hoped it would be…..

    No but Locke was the biggest catalyst towards Jack’s ultimate redemption. Think of Locke as Jesus and Jack as doubting Thomas.

  • Beena

    Jake,

    The underlying message is not necessarily whether it is to better to be “a man of science”, or “a man of faith”. Alas, it may just be this: to be a good man who loves his friends and family, and is loved by them. Jack and John both have the same fate, regardless of their beliefs.

    In the real world, there is also so much to postulate without definitive answers…so much so, that many people have trouble believing there could even be an Author to all of this that we call life.

    But let LOST show you the way! Be intrigued by all of life and its mysteries…but always remember what is most important. Be a good man who loves his friends…

  • Bezmina

    I thought it was everything I had hoped for, much more than I expected and the perfect ending for me.
    I loved how the whole thing was put together, the score, the lighting, the heart wrenching moments when you saw the people you loved, coming together with those they loved and lost one last time until they move on to whatever is in the afterlife.

    I think it’s a really interesting thing that the idea of a shared consciousness is what eases you into the afterlife – I don’t know if any of the major religions have that as their afterlife policy but I’d be inclined to sign up for that religion, that’s how good I thought it was. How good would it be if you could spend even a few moments with those who’ve been there with you for your defining period of your life and say goodbye before you stepped into the unknown?

    I loved that the man who has always been the heart of the show, got to protect the heart of the island in the end. I loved Ben’s redeption, but he was to reticent to “let go” even when dead, totally apt for his character.

    I loved that Vincent, Rose and Bernard has rescued Desmond. Vincent at Jack’s side for his last moments was just gorgeous.

    The moments when the characters conciousness fused was epic in pretty much every case, each reminder of what had gone before was poigniant. Perfectly pitched.

    I missed Walt being there but the more you think about it, we all know the actor couldn’t have been there, he’s 17 and is over 6 foot, not convincing as an 8 year old by any stretch. Pardon the pun.

    I didn’t mind that there were unanswered mysteries because I loved looking into them and learning alongside my viewing of the show over the years and I hope I will continue to do so, afterall it should be a while before I learn everything about science, ancient history, philosophy, faith, literature, vile vortexes, polar bears and the Retrievers of Truth.

    So much is still buzzing round my head and I love it, it’s amazing for a TV show to make you think this much. It’s been a blast.
    Come on guys, don’t fight it feel it, it felt good.

    And thanks Nikki and Doc and Fishbiscuit (can’t wait to hear your thoughts lovely)and everybody here really, the Skaters, the Haters, the fruit loops, the casual viewers who came to me for explanations when they were brain fried, to my friend Jimmy for copying discs of the show so my friends without Sky could watch it, Losties you chuffing rock you do!

  • Mary

    All through Season 6 I’ve been struck by how the Sideways world seemed in many respects to be the polar opposite of the characters’ flashback lives. Jack not only didn’t have daddy issues, he had a son that worshiped him. Locke had his girl, a relationship with his father, and an acceptance of his disability. Ben — well he couldn’t have been more opposite of his Island self, could he? Sawyer was a cop, not a criminal. Kate was still running, but this time loudly proclaiming her innocence. It was all opposite. Happier. And hollow. There was something clearly missing. It was when each individual became enlightened and flashed on their whole selves, good and bad, that they became whole. Opposite selves weren’t satisfying selves because the journey itself was really important to each individual. Without some awareness of the not-so-pretty along with the pretty, their lives were lukewarm, sort of meaningless and non-redemptive. When they experienced a new-Jacob’s touch through their interaction with each other, their lives literally flashed before their eyes, and they found recognition, acceptance, true joy, and ultimately, final redemption. The self-sacrifice was from each of them to each other, and without each other they could not find their individual meaning. I am confident that I will be finding layers of meaning in this finale set against the entire series for many months to come. I love how smart the writers believe their fans to be. I love their nod at the original fan-based theory of purgatory. I think the whole season six was pure genius.

    • Bezmina

      I’m with you Mary.
      Everything you said.

      • Mr. X

        I’m with you on everything you said, except for the fact that season 6 was a fool’s errand and a disgrace.

  • brlebu

    Someone posted this way up there, and I didn’t reply directly to it because I’m looking for an answer from anyone who was dissatisfied with the finale…

    “Look, Darlton can argue as much as they want that this was a character-based show, and can defend their ending as such, but it doesn’t change the fact that they willingly led viewers to believe that there was an intriguing science-based mystery behind all of it. Electromagnetism, the Dharma initiative, the numbers, childbirth issues, time travel, alternate realities, constants, variables, the list goes on and on and on.”

    Basically, my question is, what more would you have liked to have answered about those things and what would have satisfied you?

    My thought on the remaining mysteries is that it would have taken away from the show if they just flat out said “This is what the numbers mean”. The nature of LOST is that it’s a character driven show with a lot of ambiguity regarding the mythology. Things are addressed, but they aren’t explicitly explained, which gives us the opportunity to theorize and come up with our own conclusions. Isn’t that one of the best parts of Lost? That it was an experience? That we don’t know everything, yet we’re intrigued by it? I’m flashing back to “Across the Sea”. We saw where Jacob and MIB came from, and we saw how they were set up as the forces of good and evil on the island, but we don’t know where their “mother” came from. I’m sure I’ve seen some people complaining about that, but the fact of the matter is that if her origin was explained, you’d just have another character to wonder about, and you’d be pissed that you didn’t know where that character came from. As that episode so perfectly stated “Every question you ask will simply lead to another question.”

    Basically, if they had come out and said “This is what the numbers mean”, the same people who are pissed about the actual ending would have been pissed about how they explained the numbers, because it wouldn’t have been good enough.

    • Eric

      Hear hear!

    • Henry Holland

      Basically, my question is, what more would you have liked to have answered about those things and what would have satisfied you?

      Let’s take moving things through space-time as an example. We were given an answer grounded in real science: the Casimir Effect. I bet if you mentioned the Casimir Effect to any LOST fan, 9 out of 10 would have no idea what you were talking about because Darlton revealed that via a video at one of the ComicCons! So they have a perfectly plausible explanation (it’s thought that using the Casimir Effect will allow humans to travel to the stars) and they tell it in the most inefficient and obscure way! Out of the dozen or so people I know who have been fans of LOST, I’m the only one that knows that and that’s pathetic.

      How about not having yet another episode of Jackbacks/Katebacks/Jamesbacks/etc. telling us what we already know –jeebus, we get it, Jack has daddy issues and control issues, WE. GET. IT.– we got it the first 10 times they smacked us upside the head with that stuff, how about using that time to provide some answers instead? If they’re such clever writers, they can do it without having to have Eloise Hawking stand there at The Lamp Post and lecture everyone.

      See, here’s the thing: I get the sense that the disappointment/anger/rage that we “Men of Science” are feeling is because it feels like we’ve been played for chumps. It reminds me of that great scene where a wasted Charlie goes to Sydney to convince Liam to get the band back together. There’s this great rant from Charlie: “You did this to me! It was about the music, Liam, the music”.

      Darlton did this to us, they totally egged us on with the obsession about minute details and finding out who Jeremy Bentham was and so on, they catered to it. In my more cynical moments, I feel like they only did that to cover up the fact that they had totally loaded the game in favor of Faith and that if the show was explicitly about that, it wouldn’t have lasted 2 seasons.

      • Mr. X

        I share your disgust — the writers either got out on a limb and didn’t know how to resolve what they’d started, or they were running a con game.

        Sad.

      • Kermet Key

        See, this is a prime example of one person thinking that their experience with Lost should be everyone’s experience.

        You “Men of Science” haven’t been played for chumps. You guys are the typical sci-fi fan who are far too enamored with the “sci” and not the “fi”. You read Phillip K. Dick and watch Star Trek only to discuss the possible real-life applications and you feel that if those writers aren’t totally devoted to your needs then they’ve done some great disservice. They haven’t. They were writing a story, not the most entertaining manual in history.

        And Mr. X – the days of trolling Lost fan sites should be coming to a close.

      • KerriBeeLost

        All Season 6, I was frustrated because I wanted some answers. I didn’t see how whether Kate chose Jack or Sawyer was important or interesting.For me, that sort of stuff is just window dressing. I was swept away by the finale, but I still want answers.

        I am annoyed that we will have to wait for the DVD collection to get 20 more minutes that may explain some of it! I wish they could have explained more during the episodes leading up to the finale- it would not have detracted from the story and would make many of us happier! Why? Because even if you know what the island is, and how time travel operates, the outcome would still be a mystery.

        “Us”- who is :”us”- we are the people who to varying degrees, search for Easter eggs, laugh out loud when a new character is named after someone we researched in college. we are the ones who read the books the characters are seen reading, and if not, we read them now! We research the concepts hinted at in the show, contribute to Lostpedia, listen to podcasts… Yes, we are the geeks that made the fan base so much more than the ordinary fan base that moves from show to show… ER to Grey’s Anatomy to wahtever is next.

        So, I really loved that finale. And when I was able to recover emotionally I was left scratching my head. After 6 years I would like answers. I would like Darlton to release some sort of book or … show or something that shows teh framework within which they were working. Because we are not all as lucky as Henry to have been at comiccon when so much was explained!

      • brlebu

        So, basically, you got the answer you wanted, but you’re whining about how it was given to you?

        That’s the thing. If you wanted to delve deeply into the mysteries of the show and find out about things like the Casimir Effect (I have a bit of an idea of what you’re talking about), you could.

        And as far as “real science” goes, I’ve got to go with Kermet here. The “Men of Science” are ignoring the “fi” (read: fiction) bit of SciFi. Honestly, were you looking for a scientific explanation of the concept of a constant? How about Smokey? Did you want him to be explained as a cloud of nano-bots? Come on…

        • KerriBeeLost

          Um, no… I am saying that I did not get the answers I wanted! I loved how the characters’ stories resolved but I agree with the previous poster who said you shouldn’t have to listen to a podcast to put the plot together. (Well, for 6 years that was really fun but it would have been nice to have more detail at the end!)

          No, don’t tell me the chemical composition of Smokey. But tell me if Smokey is a single entity, and why Jack did not become Smokey, etc…

  • The_Magician

    Beautiful ending, and a great article. Thanks Nikki.

  • coperoco

    You know, I´m one of the fans who was hooked on the mysteries, who thought theories about everything. About how this or that worked, about who made this and why. I spent countless nights revisiting episodes, looking for clues. And tonight the strangest thing happened. I wasn´t given those answers I sought, and I realized that deep inside, I really didn´t want them.

    When I saw Jacks eye closing, when the Lost logo appeared for the last time, my only feeling was of gratitude. To have been able to experience this journey that gave me clues, dead-ends and sometimes even answers. But above all 6 wonderful years sitting in the couch watching the show and discussing about it with my closest friends every week.

    So thank you Darlton.

    • john l

      I have very similar feelings about the show. Over the past six years I spent hours and hours discussing the mysteries with friends, theorizing, reading sites like this to hear others’ ideas, etc., but I’m content even though everything didn’t get answered in the finale. I’d say that what I realized was that even though I wanted the answers, I didn’t NEED them for my experience to have been fulfilling.

    • cap10tripps

      Well said. Pretty much exactly how I feel…

      • Mr. X

        Yes, it’s great that nothing got resolved except for Season 6 questions…

    • Huckelberry

      I fealt exactly the same dude. (yes, there was tears..)

  • Lily

    I thought it was just perfect.

  • jimmyzer00

    All I know is, FB is about to have little “I told you so” babies alll up in this bitch.

  • Dan Berry

    I like how we didn’t get all the answers. People ask questions all their lives and only come to more questions, like the Big Bang, and what happened before that and so on. Things we can not know in this life. And even though perhaps the answer could be reconsiled in the next life, are we really going to be concerned about how the universe was created after we have finally been reunited with those we love the most? In my life science brought me to faith by studying quantum mechanics, metaphysics and galaxies. I found my faith through science, even if I don’t have all my answers right now, I have faith that everything will be alright.

  • DharmaBeer

    I loved sideways Jack’s comment to Locke, “see you on the other side,” spoken just before Jack performed John’s back surgery. A common, everyday remark that had so much deeper meaning by at the end of the show. Plus, as sideways Jack is trying to heal Locke, we have the juxtaposition of Island Jack / Jacob trying to kill Locke / Man in Black……beautiful!
    On a side note, remember Sawyer’s daughter’s name was Clementine…..what an appropriate name with the following lyrics from the song ……”Oh my darling, oh my darling Oh my darling, Clementine,Thou art lost and gone forever, Dreadful sorry, Clementine.” (I’m new to this site, so forgive me if this has been hashed over countless times already).
    Ohhhh….side query…….do you guys think that there is a mirror sideways geography to their world / purgatory??? This crossed my mind as Boone remarked to Hurley how hard it was to get Shannon to leave Australia (both deceased, of course).
    Anyway, sorry for the rambling thoughts (as one passes, another clicks into my consciousness from seasons past). Great site!

    • DharmaBeer

      Oh yeah….one more question……If Hurley became the new Jacob / Island Protector, how did he die???

      • Mr. X

        DharmaBeer,

        Only one more question? Really?

        Really?

        • DharmaBeer

          LOL, true enough, Mr. X. You know how it is…..as one gets answered, another two crop up.

          • Mr. X

            The show was a meltdown.

  • Mr. X

    It is very hard to see a show MELT ITSELF DOWN, and have the creators be absolutely certain they are doing the right thing, when in fact they simply (1) let the plot get out of hand or (2) didn’t try hard enough.

    I say this not so much about the last episode, as the last season. And really, season 5 given that it ended with the Jacob/Esau twist that culminated in what we saw the last year/night.

    Very hard to see.

    • Kermet Key

      Could you tell us how the show “Melted Down”…at least in five or six more posts.

  • Beena

    What absolutely amazes me is that there are people who are complaining about unanswered questions, instead of embracing the wonderful new questions that came out of this finale! Like what was up with that cave of light??? I’d love to have gotten a better look at it, and the symbols everywhere down there. Was that big stone Jack put back supposed to be like the proverbial cork in the wine that Jacob talked about??? And who put all that stuff there? Some ancient society? Aliens? God when He formed the world? It is great to be left with one last mystery!

    • Mr. X

      Beena:

      Yes, after 6 seasons of waiting, it’s great to have a whole new set of questions to think about…

      Jesus…

    • KerriBeeLost

      I can accept that we will not be told about they mysteries fo the Island. Fair enough.
      I wanted more answers about the science of the island. Why did Jacob try to keep people from leaving? Was he just a misguided Momma’s boy? What happened when Jughead detonated? Show me a montage or panoramic view connecting the Dharma stations with the Source and the Temple. Tell me more about the electromagnetic energy & infetility.
      I can connect many of the dots in retrospect but it would have been immensly satisfying to tie together some of these loose ends, even if only in brief images.

      • brlebu

        “Why did Jacob try to keep people from leaving?”

        Because he wanted to prove the Man in Black wrong. If people left, the Man in Black would be right in that “it always ends the same”. An old family struggle that sucked in innocent bystanders.

        “What happened when Jughead detonated?”

        Whatever happened, happened. You can’t change the past. That wasn’t clear enough? The detonation of Jughead at the Swan site was the Incident.

        “Show me a montage or panoramic view connecting the Dharma stations with the Source and the Temple.”

        Um… And what would be the context of this? And the point? We’ve already seen all (or at least most) of the Dharma stations. Who cares how they connect and where they are in relation to the Temple and the Light.

        Man, if these are the kind of answers the “Men of Science” are looking for, it’s no wonder they were upset with the finale…

        “Tell me more about the electromagnetic energy & infertility.”

        That’s a good one, but I think they want us to believe that massive amounts of the island’s electromagnetism can have catastrophic effects on the human body (see Hume, Desmond). Either that or look at Jacob’s response to Kate when she asked why she was crossed off the wall. “You became a mother.” Maybe Jacob was causing infertility because he didn’t want any of his candidates to become mothers. Sure, I know that not everyone on the island was a candidate, but maybe there’s something to that theory.

        One more thing: I think this is exactly what Damon and Carlton wanted. They wanted to leave some things open to interpretation. The reason this show is more than just a TV show is because of everything that spawned from it. I mean, how many docarzt-like websites are out there? How many bloggers have devoted six years to LOST? How many people have conducted series re-watches, looking for every hint and connection they could find? And, now that it’s over, how much more discussion will there be? I mean, it’s already been two days and the comments aren’t even close to slowing down.

        The fact of the matter is that LOST is an experience. And if everything had been wrapped up in a neat and tidy package with a bow on top, the experience would have ended. But since some minor things were left open to interpretation, the experience will continue. Series re-watches will continue. New fans will watch the entire series in a week. Fan sites will continue. Blogs will continue. And, who knows, maybe the show will continue in a new way 10 or 15 years from now…

  • Mr. X

    Beena:

    Yes, after 6 seasons of waiting, it’s great to have a whole new set of questions to think about…

    Jesus…

    • dd

      You are an idiot. 100%

  • Hoping for more

    I had only seen each show once and after the final I felt a little disappointed but as I had given the show six years I spent last night and most of today watching part of season one online(sick in bed) and maybe its the bug but I gotta give kudos to the writers for the evolution of the characters, especially the Jin/Sun and Claire/Charlie storylines. It’s a tv show so if their exists an audiance for it I am sure there will be ample opp for them to rake in money explaining the unexplained. I like sci-fi but I was intrigued in year one with the characters got very bored along the way and never would have followed the show to its end had it not been for the availability online.
    I just wish the advertisers would smarten up and realize I’d take two more 30 second spots to a 75 second one. 30 seconds I’m not going to check email or go to the loo, but at 75 they loose me.

    • Mr. X

      Hoping for more:

      Let me caution you. Those who make statements regarding or preferring the “development of characters” or evolution or whatever the label you choose to the resolution of basic plot questions will find themselves relegated over time to a very disgraced subset of Losties.

      I sincerely caution you abut this.

      • Hoping for more

        so be it
        It was a fantastic show that IMHO opinion should perhaps have only been 100 episodes. TV is a business and so they had to have subplots and extra mysteries to make their money to expand the story line. I wouldn’t be surprised if Allison Janney isn’t in development with the studio to do a film. I’d shell out ten bucks to see it. But yes I wish the questions I had were answered.

        • Hoping for more

          oops delete opinion

          • Mr. X

            Let me suggest to you that Allison Janney is in fact NOT in development with the studio to do a film version of Lost.

            jesus…

          • Hoping for more

            relax
            It is a tv show

      • Beena

        Let me tell you about another story that was primarily about a man and his friendships, and the development of his character. He, too, had serious daddy issues. And this story was also of the science fiction genre. It was called Star Wars and it did incredibly well at the box office. But unlike many LOST fans, most of the Star Wars audience waived their need for every question to be answered and sat back and enjoyed the ride through several sequels. No one ever felt disgraced simply because they pondered the fate of Luke and his friends in the years between the movies being released. And sure, there was a lot of buzz about “the force”, but only in an iconic movie cultural sense and not in a way where everyone was trying to dissect what exactly it was.

        Today’s audience may in fact be the “harder” critics…but it is a hardness of heart without the care of characters or people. “Harder” does not mean better in this case, it just means unfeeling. And THAT is the real disgrace.

        What LOST does in addition to its supreme character development, is ask you to think about concepts such as free will, destiny, and the like. Like life, it gives you mysteries to ponder (some of which will never be answered). And lets’s not forget all the adventure they threw in, too. If a person can somehow walk away from that unsatisfied, my suspicion is that perhaps they need to re-examine their expectations not only of this fine show they spent 6 years watching, but of the world around them. Because some of them come to these boards hostile and critical not only of the show, but of the other people here. And that is simply not right to try to ruin things for others simply because a person is dissatisfied themselves because of over-blown expectations.

        • Mr. X

          Beena: are you saying that there was the same level of plot resolution in Star Wars at the end of Return of the Jedi as there was for Lost at the end of Season 6?

          • Beena

            You aren’t going to like this, but Luke did resolve his daddy issues. Solo resolved his issues with commitment, and Leah finally made a choice between the two men (laughing) because Luke turned out to be her brother. Not only that, Vader found redemption and after death was reconciled with his two spirit like pals Obi Wan and Yoda. What I’m saying, is that for most people, they were satisfied with that character development and resolution of that movie. And no one told them they should be disgraced for feeling that, like it was a form of weakness to give a s&*t about the people in a story. But believe me, I am not young and the world is not the same place as it was back then. Today, for many, caring is considered a weakness.

            I think George Lucas never should have made Episode 1, 2 & 3. He knew he was dealing with a much different audience and tried catering to them. And that was a mistake! He tried to get away with less of a focus on character development, and more emphasis on the force, the beginnings of the Empire, and the political situations…and it comes across as being contrived and forced (pun intended).

            I don’t think it would have been necessary for LOST to show a bunch of Egyptians erecting a statue for the plot to be more resolved. Would I have loved an explanation of why the island is so magical? What are its origins? Perhaps. But I don’t need to be told how/why a rabbit hole (wink) is so magical to be satisfied with Alice’s journey or to consider the work finished or resolved at the end!

            You know what? Maybe you are just deflated that it had to end at all. THAT, I get!

      • brlebu

        Seriously?

        “Disgraced”?

        Wow, dude. Get a grip.

  • Mr. X

    Hoping for more:
    I’m just responding to your nonsense, I’m trying to help you. Please don’t disgrace yourself needlessly.

    • Hoping for more

      I have no desire to disagree with anyone online unless it is political and even then I prefer face to face. I happen to think that the Allison Janney character/Jacob/MIB would be a means by which to explain the islands mysteries. The biggest for me would be how the hell did she feed those two newborns? Just my opinion didn’t mean to offend.

    • Beena

      Anyone who has a different opinion than yours is disgracing themselves? Since no one is going to agree with you a 100% of the time, then you will be the only one in the whole world who hasn’t disgraced himself. It’s a miracle! Notify the media!

  • ilovecress

    I got over my disappointment with Across the Sea. I got all that out of my system two weeks ago. But to clarify perhaps why I (and others on this board) might be feeling a little let down over the lack of mysteries being answered.

    The show was sold on the mysteries. Literally. And it was aggressively sold on the mysteries. D&C did a podcast where they would answer fans questions about the mysteries. There were ARG’s around the mysteries. There were blogs and podcasts about the mysteries. There is lost frickin pedia about the mysteries. It was all meant to tie together, we were assured. We were encouraged to come up with our own theories to see if we were right.

    But it didn’t, and was never meant to. In season 6 they come out and say “its actually not about the mysteries, its about the characters”.

    The marketing of the show fooled us, and thats not a good feeling. Imagine entering a competition and finding out there was no prize, and there never was.

    It was all a cynical marketing ploy.

    And I’ll bet you $100 they still try to cash in on it with Books, DVD extras, TV spot, and yet more podcasts. Promising to ‘answer the mysteries’.

    Thats the business of television though. They needed to keep viewers coming back to sell ad space. You can’t really get mad at them for that.

    Put it this way – imagine the shit storm the shippers would have created if they just dropped the love storyline? The shippers won, and thats annoying for me.

    That said – take away the mysteries and mourn their loss, and you still get some compelling television, and that was definately 2 1/2 hours of compelling television.

    • Hoping for more

      I could not agree with you more.
      And I confess if the are able to put together a movie within a movie soon, I’d most likely buy a ticket. Mother/Jacob/MIB story seems to me would be the most effective way of doing that. If they don’t already have it written though I doubt in two years I’d be interested– by then I’d be pissed.

    • Henry Holland

      In total agreement with what you wrote, especially the graf about how aggressively this show was marketed in terms of the mysteries. People are surprised that some of us are feeling like we were played? Really?

      . In season 6 they come out and say “its actually not about the mysteries, its about the characters”.

      That’s what’s so galling, they never would have dared say something like that in season 2, because they knew that most –most, not all– tuned in to find out about tropical polar bears, walls thicker than the ones used to bury Chernobyl and so on, not Jack’s daddy issues.

      • Henry Holland

        Just to add, I loved the finale, loved the final 15 minutes –how great to see Boone again– and I loved the resolution both on-Island and in the Alt for my favorite character, Ben. Doesn’t wipe out the disappoint with most of seasons 5 & 6 though……

    • kaiser

      This is good criticism. I wish more people expressed themselves on here like you and Holland do, as my post way down the thread expresses in probably too much detail.

      I’m not as bothered by the lack of answers but I totally get why others are. ABC aggressively marketed the promise of answers (I mean, for christ’s sake the cover of the Blu Ray complete collection says “All the answers will be revealed”) and this ended up being in direct opposition to the writer’s own philosophy on answer giving. Bit of a disconnect there.

  • minnie swirl

    The finale was beautiful. It was an incredibly moving way to end this most wonderful character driven sci-fi action adventure story.

  • ultra_visitor

    whatever has been said, mark these words: there will be a movie… and here is why:
    1. the central characters are still alive in the end of the island story: kate, sawyer, hurley, ben, richard, jack
    2. after jack put the plug back in, he ended up on the same rock that jacob’s brother’s body ended up on after he went into the source. jack’s body may be dead, but having been in the source makes him the new smoke monster.
    3. miles (who can listen to dead people) got off the island. he will be able to find a way back to the island that way. (why out of all people is miles the only one who gets off the island besides central characters?)
    4. the little chat between ben and hurley was a hint… great number 2, great number 1… there’s already a story for that.
    5. a movie wouldn’t interfere with the show at all anymore. the show’s story is closed, and a feature film about hurley, ben and jack as the smoke monster (the real protector of the island all along) protecting the island from one big threat can stand by itself.
    6. it makes sense to make a movie, not just to cash in (which is a big factor), but to end the series with all the characters coming to terms with their destiny/death, and reveal more about the island in a seperate story (apparently the ancient people messed up the source by opening it, then they plugged it and build temple, lighthouse, and pool with fountain, after causing the necessity to protect the exposed source in the first place)
    that being said, start shooting…
    and one more thing: the movie poster will have hurley standing tall with his arms crossed in front of the source cave, with the smoke monster wrapped around him!

    • 12345

      Jack dies in the bamboo field when he closes his eyes.

      Miles is not the only one: Richard. Lapidus. Duh?

      They will never do a movie. I hope you’re joking.

      • naultz

        Its niave to think that they left all these holes in the plot because of time constraints. it was to be able to “sell” more of the secrets and plot lines to us in the form of books, movies, video games, ect. I would be real suprised if nothing comes out in less than two years.

  • wafs

    I loved the Finale, it was very satisfying to me, but if anything I feel that when they say “We knew what we were planning from season 1”, it’s a load of poop.

    I wouldn’t mind them saying “We were planning to do _______ but walt’s actor grew and thus we could’t do the child thing with Aaron” but they just kept doing the whole “WE PLANNED THIS ALL ALONG” and it doesn’t feel very planned.

    I’m more than satisfied with the Character Development and I cried like a baby at the ending, but Walt/Aaron/Dharma and other things should have been explored more through the series.

    I have a feeling though that if they still had their 24 episode seasons then they’d have been to explain more, remember they got cut to 17~ per season after a while which is approx 6 episodes off each season gone that could have been used to explain sub story.

    I guess they had to flip a coin and character development won over.

    Thanks to cast/crew and everyone involved in lost, including the fans whose theories I have lurked 🙂 Best Television I’ve watched in the last 6 years, nothing’s going to replace it for me.

    Now to come to terms I’m never going to see a new episode of this show again 🙁 It really does feel like a death, but insteaad of one person, a death of everyone on that show.

    • Henry Holland

      I have a feeling though that if they still had their 24 episode seasons then they’d have been to explain more, remember they got cut to 17~ per season after a while which is approx 6 episodes off each season gone that could have been used to explain sub story

      Think of it this way: ABC gave them 48 hours of show when they reached their agreement to end the show. That’s 2 seasons x 24, but it just got hacked up in to three seasons.

  • Hoping for more

    Wow
    I am wondering if every or at least most answers aren’t in the final. We just need to know where to look?

  • Terry Wilk Jr

    did any of you guys catch the hilarious target ads that ran during the finale? I found one that was unaired and its even better hahahaha

  • Buzzkiller

    I have a question – apologies if its already been covered or has a really obvious answer – why did Jack have to die? If Desmond could survive removing the cork, then surely he could survive putting it back in. And even if Jack did it himself, it looked like he had ages to get out of there, but he chose to sit and wait for the light to build up and the water to start flowing again. I found the ending very emotional, particularly as Jack is my favourite character, but I’d feel better about it if it was made clear that only he could have put the cork back in.

    The finale was a stunning piece of emotional television, and a great ending to LOST. A really effective full circle goodbye with its references to previous seasons, and returning cast members. I think criticising this particular episode for a lack of answers is unfair. If criticism is to be given, I would hope it is aimed at the series in general and not this final episode.

    Anyway just think – it leaves us debating for years to come. And even then, there are many other ways the various mysteries could be revealed in the future, whether it be through more tv, dvd’s, books, internet etc etc. This episode (and season) was about concluding this story and the characters we’ve followed for all these years. Their story is now done and dusted, but the island and its mysteries goes on and on…

    • Henry Holland

      why did Jack have to die?

      Um, because of the gaping stab wound in his side? Or are you talking in the overall arc of the story?

      I knew it was coming, it was so predictable, but when Jack closed his eye > LOST happened when I watched it for the first time, I cried a little.

      • Buzzkiller

        Ah yeh – forgot about that haha! I was thinking the light or the placing of the cork finished him off, because it certainly did some damage to Desmond when he was down there- and he’s special!

  • The_Magician

    I like the theory that the sideways timeline was still caused by jughead – when people eventually died in the island (main) timeline, their consciousness’ were shifted across to the ALT. And when they died in the ALT, they were able to ‘move on’ for good. Once everybody sustaining the ALT timeline have moved on, the ALT universe will eventually collapse.

  • Runkimrun

    In star wars the desire for answers led to midichlorians. ‘Nuff said.

    • Leachpunk

      That’s what I felt like the black rock crashing into the statue was 🙂

  • The Black Rock

    Nikki, I’ll get to you in just a moment, but for the rest of you who thought this was a great ending I have never personally witnessed such a compensating, rationalizing group of fans. Seriously, you guys have bought the company line hook, line, and sinker. You’re the type of people that will look at a painting of pure white and see heaven, angels, and your favorite saints even though the artist used a blank poster board. It’s just amazing to me not just for the absolute lack of thoughtful criticism of this finale but for the blind praise of it. I really wonder if the posters here are regulars to the forum or shills for ABC, because I’ve never seen so much blind support for any episode of LOST as I have for this one.

    And Nikki, I’m not sure how anyone can take your account seriously when you’ve a vested interest in making the series look good since you’ve a cottage industry in writing books explaining LOST. Your opinions are totally compromised and transparent. FWIW, I thought the finale was a huge disappointment – and yes, I understood it – and I have deleted all eps off my DVR and certainly will NOT acquire any DVD of this once great series.

    Finally, one more thing since I wrote that last sentence. Your analogy to Seinfeld is way off base. Seinfeld was not serialized so its finale had no expectation of “reveal” to it. The creators of LOST built up a set of mysteries in serialized fashion so there was a great expectation of revelations to occur up to and including the finale. It’s alot more like The X-Files in this way and equally as disappointing. For Jacob’s sake, let not the creators EVER create a follow-on film.

    • kaiser

      I honestly enjoy how some Lost fans have allowed their fandom to transport them from being regular viewers of a different person’s intellectual property to people who feel something was owed to THEM personally or taken away from them by said intellectual property’s creators. It really is fascinating. You are disappointed, Mr. X, The Black Rock (and others) but this isn’t your show, you never had your opinion solicited by ABC for Lost and you never wrote an episode. You have the right to be disappointed but you do not have the right to tell people that it should have gone another way and that they’re suckling at the teet of two con artists not realizing that the milk they’re choosing to guzzle with wild abandon is actually sour. Where do you get the ego to suggest that?

      Lost is a television show. It’s written by television writers. And just like any television show in the history of television what the show is IS what the writers tell us, it is conveyed by actors, it is shot by a director and it is compiled by editors. That’s what the show is. Nowhere in there is the bit about your feelings being tangential to how the show should be constructed. This weird symbiotic relationship that a certain sect of Lost fans feel toward the show is a recipe for disappointment. For possibly the first time in television history fans of a TV show weren’t anxiously awaiting the next episode BUT INSTEAD expecting something they were not in control of to conform to their own design. Then as if that wasn’t ridiculous enough, they have the temerity to go on blogs and tell people they’re idiots for liking something they did not. (People can like different things Mr. Black Rock, it really is okay. Disagreement encourages discourse, discourse is good. Telling people they’re dumb for liking something you and others did not is childish.)

      The medium of television owes me and you nothing. This is a recipe for disappointment, something Lost fans seemingly aren’t built to convey simply. I said this in another thread but why can’t some people just stop at “I was disappointed”? Why does it have to also include “and if anyone enjoyed this they’re morons” or “this could have been so much better if it went the way I wanted it to” etc. etc. Some fans feel their own personal disappointment gives them a viable platform to criticize the show for not conforming to what is really their own solipsistic view of how it should have gone. TV is inherently a solipsistic thing. You allow something into your home through a rectangle of various size. You have a choice in what you will allow into your home. So, naturally that means you have a choice or a say in how that thing you’ve allowed into your how in life should go. Wait what? How is it that people make the jump to believing that they actually have a choice in how that thing on the TV should go and that if it doesn’t go that way it is inherently evil and should never have been allowed into anyone’s home?

      I find it hard to believe that the final episode of Lost (or any show) could somehow “invalidate” its prior run, whether it be 10 episodes or over 100. If that’s all it took to ruin “the journey” of Lost then you weren’t really interested in watching Lost, you were interested in watching Lost become the show you wanted it to be. Which is, again, the by product of a weird symbiotic/solipsistic relationship with the show and the clear cut way to be massively let down. If your expectation of the show was for it to follow a path conceived by you, your friends or bloggers you like then you invalidate your own objections to how it went. Not being able to reconcile the fact that a television show could possibly deviate from the course YOU set for it is almost unheard of.

      For further evidence of your solipsism toward this show you write that you “deleted all the episodes off your DVR and will not purchase any DVDs of this once great show.” My goodness! I’m sure Damon, Carlton et al will be devastated at your lack of future patronage. Again, the ego…

      • kaiser

        Toward the end of the third paragraph should read “So, naturally that means you have a choice or a say in how that thing you’ve allowed into your home should go”

        and naturally i was being sarcastic.

        sorry for causing anyone to get that far to go crosseyed by the error!

        • Mr. X

          Kaiser:
          I want to caution you about a mistake that you are making, and it’s a very frequent one in this type of argument (Beena, others, make it repeatedly). It is mistaking an argument in super-strong form for an argument in the semi-strong form. So Blackrock and myself are not arguing that the show can’t mean different things to different people. Of course it can.

          We instead are (or at least I am) arguing that given what we were led to expect the story was going in seasons 1-4 (even 1-5), the ending that was done was unfulfilling. Could an entire series be about character development and never materially resolve basic plot questions? Sure. But I argue that is not what this show was sold as, at least for seasons 1-4.

          • kaiser

            Alright now this is an argument. You say things here that you did not say elsewhere so forgive me (and I mean this honestly) for lumping you in with Blackrock’s strange attack on the possibility of people having different opinions. I don’t quite understand what you’re cautioning me about though. You’ve made no argument anywhere on this page that I can see. You either state without explicating that the show “Melted down” or that “A child could have done a better job tying this all together.” These are meaningless cliches. You’ve made your disappointment clear but that’s about it. Where I take issue with what you have said, however, is here:

            “the writers either got out on a limb and didn’t know how to resolve what they’d started, or they were running a con game.”

            Fallacy of the False Dichotomy. Really? It can only be one of these two? That’s more than a little disingenuous.

            And here:

            “Let me caution you. Those who make statements regarding or preferring the “development of characters” or evolution or whatever the label you choose to the resolution of basic plot questions will find themselves relegated over time to a very disgraced subset of Losties.”

            To quote John Cusack from High Fidelity “How is it bullshit to state a preference?” Your statement may obliquely endorse the idea that Lost can mean different things to different people but it definitely makes an unfair judgment on them. First of all, there’s no way you could know that in the future the majority of Losties will be made up of scorned souls wandering the internet in disappointment looking down their noses at the Lost fans who enjoyed the show for character development. Second of all, how will “preferring the development of characters” become “disgraceful”? You’re making a harsh judgment on how a good number of people read the show. Then you have the audacity to claim you’re trying to “help” people who feel this way about Lost, as though they don’t REALLY know WHY they watch this show and must be shepherded away from this soon to be “disgraceful” opinion by your guiding hand. This is where you creep into the realm of Lost solipsism.

            I apologize in advance if these quotes and my reading of them do not accurately represent what you were trying to say. Just want to put that out there.

          • Beena

            Oy!!! I am not arguing in super strong form or semi strong form (laughing). That implies I am angry or something (which I usually save for family members). This has never left the discussion, simple disagreement, lightly bickering stage of things. At least not for me. And I can still relate to you, and your comments, Mr.X. We don’t agree about the LOST finale, but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t agree with you about other things (inside or outside of the LOST universe).

            I am morbidly (but genuinely) curious about which plot questions in particular you most wanted answered, and didn’t get. I think if you are more specific about that, instead of just “dissing” the whole character development angle, you might be surprised to find more people in agreement (or agreeable). I know I probably would be, anyway.

          • kaiser

            I very much agree with Beena’s succinct assessment and would like to add that I only argue in super long form, not super strong form. 🙂

  • Kupo

    I guess I liked the ending. The only thing I need is for the writers to explain their intentions with the way they gave their answers in the end. I’d have preferred it if they’d done that within the body of the show, but I guess I’ll have to wait for the dvd extras or the interviews.

    One line of dialog at any moment during the finale could have explained the intent just as well as that one line spoken to kid-MIB from his ‘mother’ about letting go of the need for answers.

  • JH

    It just feels hollow to me. The series had so much great depth for most of the 5 previous seasons. It feels like everything was just pushed to the side at the end and while yes, I guess I am ultimately happy with the way it ended, the sixth season just did not deliver the same feelings the past 5 years had. The previous ah-ha were delivered in such a way that really made you say “holy crap!” In the sixth season, these moments made you say “ok…”

  • Kafuri

    It’s amazing how many people just can’t let go of the peripheral characters. The core group was represented in the end, and that’s all you need. When you consider (If you’re considerate) that virtually every podcast and interview with Darlton in the last year regarding the series AND finally beat us over the head with “It’s all about the characters”, whining about mythology and other specific loose ends seems either childish or dense.

    • Beena

      When you ask someone very politely to substantiate what loose ends they feel weren’t tied up, ypu may not even get a straight answer. So it just becomes whining for the sake of whining, with no real point!

  • Mr. X

    So now that Beena and Kaiser have calmed down somewhat (though Beena I think you continue to miss what I’m getting at), either should feel free to address the core point: “We instead are (or at least I am) arguing that given what we were led to expect the story was going in seasons 1-4 (even 1-5), the ending that was done was unfulfilling. Could an entire series be about character development and never materially resolve basic plot questions? Sure. But I argue that is not what this show was sold as, at least for seasons 1-4.”

    • kaiser

      Well I “calmed down” because you finally made an argument, instead of just saying “the show melted down” and that people who liked the show for its characters would soon be representative of a “disgraced subset of Losties”. These are not arguments, they’re statements without a shred of supporting evidence, the first one is a cliche and the second one is barely comprehensible. And you’ve avoided answering any of the charges I levied at you by actually moving the discussion (quite adroitly, I have to say) away from what you’ve said previously to what you said only when I called you out. I wonder if I should feel honored…

      Your argument seems to be one of marketing versus content, expectation versus what the show gave us. ABC marketed this show on its mysteries, that’s certainly true. Can the marketing a television show’s network does be considered canon? Of course not. Can it even be trusted to be indicative of where the show is going? It probably shouldn’t be. You have to separate the expectation of what you were going to get from the marketing, or “how the show was sold” as you put it, from what was ultimately produced.

      I stopped “expecting” something specific a while ago because I knew the show wouldn’t do what I wanted it to and that if I just watched the story it was going to tell that I’d be much happier. I loved going on forums during the second season, at that point in time I had my theories of what was happening. Then the third season came along. A Scotsman started time traveling, a cabin shook and said “Help me” and it appeared (at the time) everyone got off the Island in a FLASH FORWARD. My theories didn’t have any of that in them. They could not even be adjusted to encompass the show’s new direction. It was then that I stopped expecting anything specific to happen because I’d just be wrong and I enjoyed the show more during its last three years than I did during the first three (despite season 1 being probably the best and most consistent run). I wanted to enjoy the show free of the burden of expectation. Everyone I know who watches the show reached a point like that with Lost which is why it’s no surprise that everyone I know were pretty content with how it ended.

      Now I’m curious, what “basic plot” questions were left unresolved? I suppose you’re going to have to define what you mean by basic plot. I take basic plot to mean the destines of the core characters introduced since season 1. Did they not do that? They explained how the plane crashed (Desmond didn’t push the button + Jacob’s touch), they have suggested since season one that all of these character’s had intertwined destinies they just perhaps weren’t aware of their connections. In the end their destinies came together in what I felt was a very powerful and moving scene in the church. They explained what the Island was (a cork to contain evil, something that was Jacob’s fault, another bad parenting cycle that needed to be broken) and why it had to be protected in the future (the light) because people might try to exploit its uniqueness for their own selfish ends (Dharma, the old Romans, the Egyptians I’m sure and every other culture that got a little too close to tapping into the Island for not altruistic reasons). We saw the Dharma initiative for what they truly were (stupid hippies and self serving scientists), we saw the Incident (as remarked about in the first Dharma station video), we saw the conclusion of the light versus dark struggle that had been dominating the Island since the time of Christ (maybe). Every character was flawed. They came to the Island and most found redemption in some way or reconciled their past, though some did not (poor Michael).

      To me “basic plot” means what these characters experienced during their lives from 04-07. The basic plot revolved around the characters. The ancillary plot revolved around the Island’s dark history and deep mythos. I thought they resolved all of the questions regarding the basic plot but then again you and I could have totally different definitions of what constitutes basic plot.

      Let me ask you this: Has the weight of your disappointment made it so that, knowing how the show ends and knowing the direction it ultimately went, is it possible for you to re-watch the show and enjoy it for it was and not feel let down by what you expected it to be?

      • JH

        My complaint is not that the show ended badly, rather the contrary, it ended beautifully. It was the entire sixth season leading up to the ending that sucked. The writing got lazy (i.e. Desmond’s lackluster role, the seemingly pointless introduction of Illana, The anti-climactic end of Charles Whidmore, even Ben Linus turning back to the darkside seemed contrived). I’m sure C&D had decent intentions with all of it, but it just did not come across on screen at all.

        Aside from that, I also personally did not like the change in direction with the show. Lost started out having this great blend of science fiction meets the supernatural, and then sort of grew into this faith vs. science thing but it always had this sense of ambiguity where you thought it could go either way. Maybe the island is sealing in real evil that could destroy the world and maybe the evil was just a metaphor for a large amount of electromagnetism that could destroy the world. Had the sixth season continued to follow this formula I think I would have liked it much better, even if it had the same ending.

        • kaiser

          All legitimate gripes, Season 6 was certainly uneven at times–something that could have been amplified by the fact that it was the last season (I’d argue that Season 3 was much more inconsistent but that’s another topic).

          I’d also like to commend you on being able to make statements with supporting evidence; alternatively called “making a valid argument”. A skill seemingly in short supply.

          And that isn’t about anyone in particular, just a problem on messageboards in general.

      • Mr. X

        Kaiser,
        Very respectfully, there’s a lot of nonsense in your post and ad hominem attacks, but I’m going to take the high road and just ignore as many mistakes and attacks as possible.

        My point is not based on “marketing” of seasons 1-4, it is based purely on content. Let me save time and inches on this post (because your “answers” are blended in with your own guesswork and philosophizing) and put it to you directly — what was the effect of Juliet triggering the bomb at the end of season 5?

        If you can answer that in any way other than your imagination, I’d appreciate it.

        Let’s start there – concretely and respectfully and without filibustering by you or Beena or whoever else.

        The show MELTED DOWN. That is my conclusion. I am explaining to you my reasoning, because I think I can persuade you.

        • Beena

          I can give you two things that happened after that bomb went off, that are not based on theories or speculation.

          1. Juliet died.
          2. They were no longer in the 70’s.

        • kaiser

          So lets recap, you act dismissively to other peoples opinions here:

          “Hoping for more:
          I’m just responding to your nonsense, I’m trying to help you. Please don’t disgrace yourself needlessly.”

          here:

          “Beena:

          Yes, after 6 seasons of waiting, it’s great to have a whole new set of questions to think about…

          Jesus…”

          and here:

          “I’m with you on everything you said, except for the fact that season 6 was a fool’s errand and a disgrace.”

          And then have the gall to accuse me of ad hominem attacks and crown yourself the prince of reason and objective opinions?

          Lets also start with some basic definitions. For example you use the word “filibustering” in your post. Filibuster is defined as “obstruct deliberately by delaying “. I think you’d agree with that definition. How was I filibustering by answering the question you asked? If anything you keep skirting the issues that you bring up and change the subject. I’d call that delaying.

          You also used the phrase “ad hominem.” I don’t believe I called you any names or disregarded your opinion because “you’re just a snotty man of science” or anything like that. If you can point out where I attacked you personally (and do remember I was answering your question directly) I’ll try to explain myself.

          You’re also changing your argument to fit the situation. What you said, and I quote is: “Could an entire series be about character development and never materially resolve basic plot questions? Sure. But I argue that is not what this show was sold as, at least for seasons 1-4”

          “Sold as,” that sounds to me like “marketed as.” If that wasn’t your intent then fine but I’m just working off of what YOU have said.

          Now my final point: What I did was answer your question. Just to repeat in case you forgot: ““We instead are (or at least I am) arguing that given what we were led to expect the story was going in seasons 1-4 (even 1-5), the ending that was done was unfulfilling. Could an entire series be about character development and never materially resolve basic plot questions? Sure. But I argue that is not what this show was sold as, at least for seasons 1-4.”

          You ask either I or Beena to address this “core point” (to an argument you never brought up previously but I’ll let that slide). Hilariously, you choose not to even reference my answer (except when it suits you to deride my post: “your “answers” are blended in with your own guesswork and philosophizing”), decide that it was nonsense and riddled with personal attacks and then ask ANOTHER QUESTION.

          So I answered your first question, Beena just answered your second one and I will not be around to answer a third. You’re obviously disappointed. I’m sorry, truly I am. I’m sorry you expected something you didn’t get and feel aggrieved by the way the show ended. We’re at an impasse here because you fail to actually acknowledge anything that I write in response to something you’ve written. We’re at an impasse because I’m not disappointed and you can’t persuade me to be disappointed.

          I don’t think the show is perfect and have never stated as such. It has a lot of loose ends, that much is undeniable. I do think it’s the best drama that Network television has ever seen. I was pleased with the way it ended but acknowledge that not everything added up–though I don’t necessarily have a problem with that. You call my “answers” philosophizing and guesswork, I’d like to counter with isn’t that being what a Lost fan has always been? I don’t think a slew of answers rubber stamped by the creators needed to be provided in order to validate my interest in the show. There’s enough in the text of Lost to answer a lot of the question the show didn’t answer explicitly. Were some storylines built up and never expounded upon? Certainly. But this is the nature of network television, not every show is going to end up like The Wire where everything absolutely matters. That just can’t happen on network television.

    • Beena

      Mr.X,

      What can you do about that? I doubt your cable company will issue a refund for all the hours you spent watching something which you feel was misrepresented. And although you may certainly find some tea and sympathy on various LOST boards and be able to vent, I think you do one better writing to ABC or LOST/co ABC. At least that way, you will get the satisfaction of getting it off your chest with the people responsible. While I don’t share your opinion, I do still feel bad that you are frustrated. And I’m sorry that I have been unable to diminish that for you in anyway…

      • Mr. X

        Kaiser,

        By your own admission, you “stopped expecting anything specific to happen because I’d just be wrong and I enjoyed the show more during its last three years than I did during the first three (despite season 1 being probably the best and most consistent run). I wanted to enjoy the show free of the burden of expectation.”

        That says a lot about why you’re digging your heels in. Whether you have moved on to troll in other threads (“I will not be around to answer a third”) I wanted to try to get you a little further along why you probably will be in the minority for a long time on these issues.

        I think, very humbly, that as time goes on you will find yourself in a minority with these views. There is no judgment with that, just a prediction.

        The reason is that you & Beena have elected to grade a show far differently than most do. So, for example, if we all went to buy a car, I would grade it on how it drives, mileage, comfort, etc.

        By analogy, you & Beena would grade a car on its ability to provide shelter. Can a car provide that? Yes. Many homeless people live in cars. But that is not what people expect to get out of a car.

        Most people watch shows with the “burden” (your word) of expectation. And I expected to get much more out of Lost in the end. I didn’t give up my expectations mid-way the way you did. For me, and like most people, there is a limit to the number of loose ends before character development becomes just a rationalization.

        Given those premises, the show MELTED DOWN. Those words seem to rankle you but it’s important you hear them because I’m concerned you view your analysis as the way the majority of viewers saw the show, and that is (in my view) simply not right.

        • kaiser

          Mr. X please stop acting like you have to save me from my own opinion.

          I’m ending this here because this is your opinion:

          “there is a limit to the number of loose ends before character development becomes just a rationalization.”

          That is fine. That’s your opinion. You’re not right or wrong. The above is just your take on the show. You expected something you didn’t get. You’re disappointed. That’s fine. I wasn’t and you can’t convince me (or anyone) that the way they look at the show is “wrong.” That’s ridiculous.

          Don’t act like you’re saving me from being “disgraced” or that I need to hear your words like you’re converting me from Paganism to Christianity. And even if you’re right and time is cruel to Lost and people regard it ultimately as an ambitious failure that MELTED DOWN that doesn’t mean I have to agree. Just because something may be the popular opinion doesn’t make it “more right” than another one.

          You claim that everyone can have different opinions on Lost. As if all are equal. In the end, you seem to think your opinion is “more equal” than others.

          (By the way your choice of phrasing hasn’t rankled me, you just said something like four times without explaining what you meant. I’m not the first person to comment on that here.)

          • Mr. X

            Kaiser,

            I’ve very respectfully disagreed with your point of view and I wish I could say you’ve extended me the same respect. You prefer to fight a strawman rather than my basic arguments — so be it.

            Please in the future try to listen to people who disagree with you and engage them with reason rather rather than attributing to them various motives you imagine. I respectfully suggest you do a little soul-searching about how you’ve handled this dialogue.

          • kaiser

            Very respectfully? You’ve called the opinion I and others share “disgraceful” on this board.

            I’ve come to the conclusion that your posts must be some kind of meta joke that I just don’t get. It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point.

            Prefer to fight a strawman than your basic arguments? What did I do but answer your questions and then ask you to expand your argument so I could understand what you were saying?

        • Beena

          1. In fact, some people do buy RVs and are more interested in them for the quality of shelter than they are for mileage. So your analogy is really kind of lame in its very limited scope of different types of car buyers.

          2. The fact that you think I would actually care about being in the minority in my opinion of a tv show, is comical. I don’t remember actually consulting anyone before allowing myself to enjoy what I enjoy. Nor do I imagine that I would ever apologize for it.

          3. Your repeated usage of words like “melt down” does not rankle me at all. Nor am I any less calm than the other times you seemed to be trying to get some sort of reaction. I find it rather amusing, actually.

          4. Since this is someone else’s web site, I feel it inappropriate to continue this exchange. So I bid you good day, Mr. X. I hope you will find the satisfaction you didn’t find with LOST, somewhere else in life.

  • Leachpunk

    First… I want to ask one question, it truly was bugging me all season long… Why didn’t Jack or Kate ever tell Claire that Aaron was with her mom? You would have thought that would have been the first thing said. With that asked, that is truly the only thing I want to know.

    Secondly… I feel the biggest problem with this show was pretty much nothing. It lead us on an adventure, I felt like Encyclopedia Brown, I felt like it was a scavenger hunt of mystery, and as I kept digging, it kept getting better. With every answer came more mystery, and the cycle continued. That was until I was presented with the finale. That adventure ended, and it ended beautifully. I loved it, at first I was shocked. I just don’t know how the thought never crossed my mind. It truly was a beautiful ending. I’m not much of a religious person, but I deem myself to be spiritual I guess. This showed it, I was pretty moved by what I saw.

    Thirdly… “I felt like Encyclopedia Brown, I felt like it was a scavenger hunt of mystery, and as I kept digging, it kept getting better. With every answer came more mystery, and the cycle continued.” This is where everyone seems to have problems. It pretty much is the side of disbelief. Completely Man of Science. People want to know everything. I want to know everything, I was as intrigued with the character of the island, as I was with any of our main characters. In fact the writers stated on numerous occasions that the island was a character in and of itself. I agree, the island had just as much of a dark past as the characters themselves. The island suffered from surrogate parental issues just as much as our characters did.

    But… I think people are too hung up on the reoccurring answer – question cycle. With every answer or clue lead to dozens of other questions. Did you ever really expect the writers to give a satisfying answer? I wanted answers as much as the next person, but are you ever truly getting answers? All answers open more questions. n 1675 a man discovered the microorganism. We studied, we asked questions. Then we discovered many bacteria in these organisms, we studied, we asked questions. Then we discovered DNA, we studied, we asked questions. Look at where we are now, still studying, still asking questions.

    You see where I am going, mother really did say it best “With every answer there is going to be more questions.” I think everything we got was somewhat satisfying. I mean, it is pretty lame to think the numbers, this valenzetti equation, Hurley’s bad luck, Lenny’s insanity, the hatch serial number, our beloved characters drawn to the island to absolve it of evil. It somewhat sounds ridiculous, but it works.

    Everything in the end, it was about self discovery, redemption, love, resolution. It was about community, friendship, adventure. I think the show did a fantastic job ending it the way it has. Black and White, Good and Evil, Man of Science and Man of Faith. It was very epic, it was bad, it was good, great characters, bad characters, and one crazy ride. Our generation got its very own Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Flies, Paradise Lost. I feel honored to have been a part of it, and I do not think there will be anything like it ever again.

    Thank you Lost.

    • kaiser

      I agree with a lot of this perspective. Especially here: “It was very epic, it was bad, it was good, great characters, bad characters, and one crazy ride. Our generation got its very own Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Flies, Paradise Lost. I feel honored to have been a part of it, and I do not think there will be anything like it ever again.”

      The good far outweighed the bad (and there certainly was some bad stuff) but it really was a wonderful ride and one I look forward to revisiting once I have to time to decompress.

  • milo

    Beautiful ending, but the writers really botched things over the years with all the unanswered questions and loose plot threads (not to mention things that seem like contradictions and plot holes). Very emotionally satisfying in the end, but the way the mythology was so bungled really leaves a bad taste. Would it have been so hard to generally only introduce mysteries that they intended to actually solve?

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