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What Nikki Noticed: 5.03 “Jughead”

By Nikki Stafford,

  Filed under: Lost Featured, Lost News
  Comments: 44

flsmall1So… I’ve always stayed away from gross speculation when it comes to Lost. There are many fans out there who say, “Duh. The island is TOTALLY in the middle of Los Angeles and they only THINK it’s in the Pacific, but it’s a soundstage. God, haven’t you seen The Truman Show?”

Okay, maybe there aren’t a lot of fans saying that. I think it’s those nasty voices in my head again. Sigh…

But back to my original point. I’ve rarely speculated. I know that A) I can come up with an idea, then I’ll get married to it, and then it won’t turn out to be true, and I’ll end up curled up in a fetal position crying my eyes out that my fantasy ending didn’t come true, or B) I can come up with an idea, and it’ll be proven wrong about 5 minutes after I’ve made it, or C) I can come up with an idea, and somehow Darlton, knowing I am a GENIUS, will actually make that the end of the show, and then… well, then I’d be a little disappointed because I figured it out. (By the way, that last one was just so I’d have three points. That would never come true.)

But you know what? It’s season five, and I’m going to join in on the crazy speculatory fun and come up with a theory, so… HERE GOES!

So in the 1950s Charles Widmore decided to join a group of pre-hippy hippies and come to an island in the South Pacific. (I haven’t yet worked out this early part… give me a few weeks.) He meets a tough chick named Ellie, which is short for Eloise. In the mid-60s Eloise and he have a brief affair and she gets pregnant. The child turns out to be Daniel Faraday. Ellie takes the child and leaves the island, and Widmore finds and turns the frozen donkey wheel and is unexpectedly ejected from the island. He returns to England, remarries and has a child named Penny. Years later, Daniel is a professor at Oxford trying to figure out how to time travel, and he names his rat Eloise, after his mum. (Um… nice?) Widmore tracks him down (not hard when they live a stone’s throw from each other) and he’s reluctant to admit that he’s his father, but realizes that Daniel’s work could help him find the island again, and funds it. Penny meets and falls in love with Desmond, then Desmond ends up on the island, then time travels back to the moment where he could have stayed with Penny and NOT gone to the island. Eloise Hawking pops up, encourages him to get his ass back on that bloody island, and he does so. Then Daniel ends up on the island, and Desmond goes back in time to earlier Daniel to give him the correct coordinates of his machine. Then Desmond leaves the island, is reunited with Penny, gets her pregnant, they name the child Charlie. The child grows up, discovers the time machine research that Daniel Faraday had done, goes back in time to the island… and is called Charles Widmore. Penny just gave birth to her own father.

Oh YEAH, baby, this speculation is FUN! And while I’m at it, Hurley is actually Sawyer’s grandson, Ji Yeon is Jin’s great-great-grandfather, and Kate DOESN’T EXIST.

Oh. Right. I just remembered why I don’t speculate. I think I’ll go back to posing questions.

I’ve written up my extended entry on last night’s episode on my blog, but I think the most interesting thing that came out of last night’s episode was the revelation that the woman on the island could actually be Daniel’s mom, Eloise. And where, might you ask, am I getting this name Eloise from? I don’t watch the enhanced versions of the show; most of the “revelations” are things the hardcore fans already noticed. But last night, on my second viewing of “Jughead” (was anyone else wondering when Betty and Veronica were going to show up?), I backed up my PVR to the beginning and it was showing the end of the enhanced version of “The Lie.” Mrs. Hawking is delivering her “May God help us all” line to Ben, and underneath it said, “This woman’s name is Eloise Hawking.” Until then, we’d only known her as Mrs. Hawking, and even THAT was only because it was her name in the script, and never a name she’s been called on-screen.

I LOVED last night’s episode. Loved loved loved it. But, I have to take umbrage with the fact that what would be a key point to the mysteries of Lost is not available to the average viewer. If I hadn’t watched the enhanced version (okay, admittedly, the last minute of the enhanced version), I would have missed the fact that her name was Eloise. Should such an important point really be in a subtitle and not part of the episode? Because I don’t consider that canon. If I watch it when the episode is live, that should be enough. The writers should work this information into the actual episode, and not into a line of the enhanced version. I’d rather not have known her name was Eloise right away. Let me ruminate on that line from Daniel — “You really remind me of someone” — for a few weeks, and think maybe he means Theresa. But to give away key information in a subtitle? I think that’s wrong. It’s like when they revealed the meaning of Hurley’s numbers at the end of The Lost Experience (they fit into a formula that accurately predicts the end of mankind) and then call it canon, meaning you’d have to play along with the Lost Experience to get that. I disagree. I want Lost fans twenty years from now to watch six UNENHANCED seasons of this show and be able to piece together the mysteries. It should either be in the dialogue or in the screen, but it should be canon.

Anyway, that is a small nitpick to a very, very excellent episode. If you want to see me drooling all over it, please come on over and check out the blog! Next week: we return to the Oceanic 6.

Nikki Stafford is the author of the Finding Lost series of books, which offer episode-by-episode guides to each season. The guide to season 4 is now available at Amazon.com. She posts regularly on her television blog, Nik at Nite.

From TVFrenzy:

  • hyperRevue

    Totally agree about that the pop-up video version shouldn’t be giving away big bits of info that aren’t available elsewhere.

  • Desi’s Brother

    Love your theory!

    I came up with almost the exact same theory in the forums.

    I am predicting that Eloise Hawkings could be both the mother of Daniel and Penny. She leaves for LA with Daniel, Widmore takes Penny to London. Daniel doesn’t know he is Widmore’s son, but Widmore funds his research because of it. They would have to have had some major conflict for her to be now working with Ben.

    The part about Charlie Widmore is fabulous! I love that idea. but surely he would know who is mother and father were…Perhaps “charlie Pace” is Charlie Hume…

    I completely agree that leaving out a really important bit of info like “Eloise” is not right. Just like leaving out who the other 3 survivors of the plane crash were only to stick them into the enhanced episode was not right.

  • professorstotch

    “Then Desmond leaves the island, is reunited with Penny, gets her pregnant, they name the child Charlie. The child grows up, discovers the time machine research that Daniel Faraday had done, goes back in time to the island… and is called Charles Widmore. Penny just gave birth to her own father.”

    Best idea I’ve heard all week!

    • dolce

      Through a convuluted temporal loop and various animal experimentations on the island, they are all related and descended from…wait for it…Vincent! Vincent HAS FOUR TOES!!!

  • malakai

    How about Penny and Desmond go back to the Island with their son Charlie. Because of some decisions Desmond makes Penny dies a horrible death, maybe desmond too.

    Charlie grows up hating Desmond for getting his mother killed, takes his mothers maiden name and calls himself Charles Widmore. He becomes leader of the others but is usurped by Ben and ends up stuck off Island unable to find it.

    He wants to save his mother so he finds her as a baby, steals her from her real parents (most likely murdering them to cover his tracks based on his other actions).

    He tries to keep Desmond and Penny from getting together because he knows Penny will die a horrible death On-Island. This would make him cease to exist and be a paradox so the Universe keeps “course correcting” and no matter how many ways he tries to screw Desmond, his own father, over they always end up together in the end.

    I used to think Charles obsession with Sailing came from being on the Black Rock but what if he was actually born and raised quite literally on a sailboat? It also explains his hatred for Desmond who is his father and lord knows everyone in this show hates their father, in Charles case for getting his mother killed.

  • preztige

    so Penny and Desmond die on the island, leaving Widmore alone with the Others. Penny and Desmond have to be the “Adam and Eve” couple in the caves.

    • hyperRevue

      If I had to put money on who was Adam & Eve, I’d go with Penny and Desmond.

      • CelticFan96

        I have put money on Rose and Bernard being Adam & Eve. Ben will end up killing Penny.

  • ja

    I don’t agree with it being wrong to show that information in the Enhanced Version of the episode. That fact, I’m sure, will eventually be given in a non-Enhanced episode. So they are rewarding the viewers dedicated enough to watch the episode again. Now if they never do reveal her first name during the regular show, then I would agree with you.

    As far as the meaning of the numbers and the ARG, D&C said the entire reason for the ARG was to give fans answers to things they knew they wouldn’t be able to get to in the real episodes of the show.

    When D&C said you would only need to watch the network episodes to understand what was going on, a lot of people use that to protest the info given out in the non-episode revelations. But up to this point, at least, Eloise and the meaning of the numbers are not vital to the understanding of the show.

    • True… and of course, I could be completely wrong in thinking that Eloise is Ellie, and then I’m just a cranky viewer. And those people bug me. 😉

  • Brian C

    I for one did not care for this episode.
    The random-flash-time-travel is just poor writing. Three times now, a pivotal moment or piece of information is cut off by a conveniently contrived random flash. “How do I get off the island? Oh no! Another flash!”
    “My mom’s name is…”
    And of course Locke’s first meetup with the Others after Ben moved the island.

    The only adequate way to tell the story was for the initial flash after Ben first moved the Island… that was within the confines of a specific, plot advancing action. The subsequent ones are too bereft of meaning, too convenient, to accept.

    • Benny

      Too convenient? One theory goes to suggest that the island is protecting itself or rather information by jumping at specifically time in discussions so as information is NOT revealed to the characters. It just happens that it is not revealed to the viewers as well.

      There’s huge belief that the island has a form of consciousness represented by either Richard or the Smoke Monster. So this belief go match with the theory.

      Now I agree that it may be annoying, but I can only hope that there is a legitimate reason beyond a writing tool.

    • CelticFan96

      It is a bit annoying. But annoying in a good way. And that is what makes the writing great. We get to see all sorts of different time periods on the island.

      And if Locke didn’t flash away from Richard and we found out everything we needed to know, the next 32 episodes would be worse than some of the Season 3 episodes.

  • Nikki…your theory about Charles Widmore’s parentage was a joke, right? Nikki?

    (By the way: I love reading your blog. Yours is one of the first places I go to on Thursday mornings!)

    • I am TOTALLY kidding. Actually, no, I’m not. AM.

      Not.

      Am.

  • Jangras

    Sorry guys.. what the hell is the enhanced version? I’m in Europe where can i get it?

    • The Mantis

      It’s the previous episode with little info “pop-ups” through-out the episode basically explaining everything to people who apparently have never seen the show. It’s really pretty annoying. For instance, when Kate is on the screen, the pop-up will say, “This is Kate, Kate was traveling on Oceanic 815 back to Los Angeles with a federal Marshall…” Things that if you didn’t know, you probably shouldn’t be watching the episode anyway.

      • Jangras

        Thanks dude nice of you – so i guess it’s an almost boring stuff (except fo this eloise clue..)

  • Dee

    If Ms. Hawking is Dan’s mum, I believe we’ll find out that Dan’s pops is Father Campbell, the monk who fired Des. Father Campbell had a photo of he and Ms. Hawking on his desk and his facial features are very similar to Daniel’s. The way Widmore told her to shut up, she’d never have his baby. Father Campbell!

  • The Mantis

    I agree, I wish the “enhanced” version would’nt have told us that her name was Eloise. That was weird to me, took the fun out of the speculation. As for Penny giving birth to her own father… That’s a bit far-fetched but kinda cool. Did anyone else feel like there was way too much “re-capping” in the dialouge in the episode?? I don’t remember ever saying, “wow, this writing is kinda bad…” before. Still loved it though, the season is kicking ass.

    • Hey Mantis: What do you mean by recapping in the dialogue?

      • hyperRevue

        Like the characters on the screen re-hashing stuff as a way to remind the audience. I can’t think of any specific examples off the top of my head, but I do recall 1 or 2 times in this episode were it was a tad more blatant.

        • Ah… sorry, now I get ya. I didn’t notice it as much in this episode, but it’s been in a few for sure. Like when Locke announces that Michael is Ben’s man on the boat in season 4 and Sawyer says, “You mean the guy who killed Libby and Ana Lucia and then led us all across the island into a trap and then bartered his way off with his son… THAT Michael?” Sigh. Those moments always bug me, but maybe they work for the more casual viewers. (Does anyone know a “casual” viewer of Lost?)

          • hyperRevue

            haha! Exactly like that time.

          • ushkush

            Just wondering how many replies one can fill into one of these.

          • ushkush

            I guess that’s it.

  • Jose

    Nikki – great post. . I had thought and agree with most of it !

    I only differ in that I believe that Widmore, a 1000 year old being, was tricked off the Island by Ben, either by ben getting him to turn the wheel, thus ejecting him. . or more likely that Widemore at some point became richards “guy off the island” and widemore was tasked with overseeing businesses etc off the island, generating money – research . . Perhaps even tracking who was searching for the island . . .Widemore made frequent and regular trips back to the island – thus preserving his non aging properties. I think while off the island – Ben donkey wheeled the island and moved it – on purpose, betraying widemore on purpose – stranding him from returning. The only way to kill a 1000 year old non aging being is to isolate them away from the island and making them age – and die. This is why widemore says – I know who u are boy, as if they never met. . . he says everything u have u stole from me. . . and why he needs to find it – to stop his aging.

    I think that wile widemore was off the island – richard meets sneaky ben – who helpd his eliminate the darma threat – – -and then the two pair up to over throw, imprison jacob, as it seems richard is tired of taking orfders from him for thousands of years. Juliette, by her reaction to locke when overlooking the camp in Jughead, did not look in agreement with Locke – when locke said – Im going to talk to Alpert, hes going to tell me how to save the island. Julietes look showed that locke was being nieve by blindly thinking richard was inately good when she knows he and ben have teamed up to do bad things in the past. . purge – -holding jacob – etc .

    I also think that Mrs hawking/faraday being in LA is where claire was taking aaron – on the psychics advice in season one when the plane crashed. Why would she want aaron . . .to ensure he crashed and was born on the island . .or to try to prevent him from ending up on the island – – im not sure . . . .great stuff ! ! !

    • dolce

      I think that wile widemore was off the island – richard meets sneaky ben – who helpd his eliminate the darma threat – – -and then the two pair up to over throw, imprison jacob,…

      Ben grew up on the island. Richard met him there as a boy.

      • dolce

        I don’t know, I may have missed our point.

        • Jose

          The point simply is that at some point in time – Widemore, was asked to perform duties off the island ocassionaly by Richard. . . doing the back and forth thing to and from the island. Richard, while Widemore is away on a trip, meets Ben, who is raised on the island. Ben and Richard team up, purge Darhma, and Ben then at some point while widemore is off the island, strands Widemore off the island for good. Both Ben and Widemore know Alpert, but the two have never met until that night Ben visits Widemore.

  • Emma

    I think that Charlotte’d dad is Charles Whitmore.. since Charlotte has reason to believe that she was born on the island.. i think she was a love child on the island and was born on the island but the mom obviousley died.

    • Hmm… good theory! Could Charlotte and Daniel turn out to be brother and sister? Gasp… it’s a Luke and Leia thing all over again!

  • Johnginpbg

    Charlotte has flame-red hair, which must be inherited from either her mother or her father. This disqualifies Widmore and Ellie from being her parents. I think she is Faraday’s daughter, mother unknown. He said he loves her but did not kiss her romantically.

    • LOST12steplpan

      Having red hair does not require that one of your parents has red hair. Gentetics doesn’t work that way. I have black hair, by wife has brown, our daughter has red. that’s because MY grandfather had red hair.

  • Uncle Beaver

    What if Faraday met some chick during Dharma’s time on the Island, got her pregnant, and Charlotte is his DAUGHTER?

    Didn’t Lindelof and Cuse speak out against the “Grandfather Paradox”? I’m not buying any of the “I’m my own grandfather/father/mother/child” stuff.

  • ashlie

    I agree about the enhanced version – I was totally shocked when I was watching it to see that her name was Eloise. I couldn’t remember ever knowing that, and thought for a moment I might not be the Lost fan I thought I was if I had indeed forgotten that tidbit of information. I think the general consensus is that Ellie-Eloise Hawking, which is a bit disappointing that it seems so obvious, but they could still pull one over on us, you never know. Thanks so much for your insight, Nikki – I love keeping up with your blog!

  • clueless1der

    Hi Nikki. Glad to see you over here. Yours was the first Lost book I actually bought. 😀

    I completely agree with what you said about the Enhanced version. I don’t watch it, and suddenly everyone and their brother’s brother was talking about Ellie= Eloise= Ms. Hawking. I felt like I had really missed something major. If they wanted me to know it, then put it in the show!

  • bps

    I think that is why they add things like Eloise Hawking to the pop-ups. So fans will actually spend another hour watching the same episode again.

    Kind of like when bands put out a greatest hits album, adding one or two new songs so the “fans” who own all of the bands albums already will go and buy the greatest hits album too.

    Or better yet like when George Lucas makes a “newer and improved” version of Star Wars for the tenth time and everyone ends up with 8 different copies of the same movie.

    Alas…I fall for it with the best of them.

  • spinflip

    If Daniel’s father is Charles Widmore and his mother is Eloise Hawking, how come his surname is Faraday? An alias?

  • Bookhouse Boy

    I don’t believe that little Charlie Hume ends up Charles Widmore, that Penny gives birth to her own father. Stupid. I doubt that is the case. Just plain stupid.

  • Uncomplicated and well crafted, many thanks for the details

  • The cat’s front paw has 5 toes, but the back paws have 4. Some Cats are born with as many as 7 front toes and extra back toes (polydactl).

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