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Rate and Rant 6.04 – The Substitute

By Koobie,

  Filed under: Lost Recaps
  Comments: 204

Another episode bites the dust in the final season of Lost.Β  What did you think of it?Β  Here is a quick overview.

Flash-Sideways:

  • Locke seems to be living a much happier life (i.e. he is marrying Helen!)
  • Helen and Locke are thinking about inviting John’s father to the wedding
  • Rose still has cancer, same upbeat attitude about it
  • Businessman Hurley is pretty generous to the guy who was about to gouge his hummer.
  • Ben and Locke teaching at the same school, I would have pegged Ben to be a politician

On Island:

  • Sawyer follows Flocke, while Richard stays behind, and Sawyer falls off a cliff.
  • Who is the kid that appeared to Flocke and Sawyer? Little Jacob or an older Aaron?
  • Ben reveals that he murdered Locke, but still lies to Ilana about murdering Jacob
  • Why can’t Flocke change into anyone else but Locke?
  • An interesting numbers appearance, could it lead into an explanation of the numbers?
  • 4-Locke 8-Reyes 15-Ford 16-Jarrah 23-Shepard 42-Kwon
  • Where is Austin? Which Kwon does 42 represent? Jin, Sun, or Both?
  • Is Flocke telling the truth about “the candidate?” Or is he just manipulating Sawyer

I probably left some things out, sound off in the comments!

[poll id=”33″]

From TVFrenzy:

  • Funback Joe

    Brilliant!

  • Kevin

    of those six names, all of them went back in time to 1977. Locke would have if he had not spun the donkey wheel. I think because Jin went back to 1977 it means he’s the kwon in question. He was the one born with the name after all.

    • cap10tripps

      They were the people he touched. I think all the names written have something to do with “it always ends the same,” and “it only ends once.” People who were brought there were all candidates. Jacob was quite possibly a candidate himself once.

      • Kate, or “Austen” rather, is conspicuous by her absence on the Candidate Wall. Jacob touched her on the nose and yet her name does not appear. We can only guess why, right? Maybe because he said “You’re not going to steal anymore now, right?” and she, in no uncertain terms, says no of course not because she’s a little girl trying not to piss off the guy who bought her a New Kids On The Block lunchbox for absolutely no reason but then off course she goes on to steal, kill and manipulate during her life. Perhaps she violated terms of an agreement she knew not she agreed to?

        I really have no idea though I’m interested to find out why.

        • cap10tripps

          Are we 100% positive her name is not on there? Where’s our screen shots???

        • dksrox

          Maybe’s she’s Locke’s substitute, now that he’s dead???

        • naultz

          maybe she is just not candidate material. No ones mentioned yet in the flash sideways, why is locke paralized? if he has a good relationship with dad, we can assume locke was not hurled out of an 8 story window by his dad. plus if Helen is still around locke must not have been “tricked” by dad into giving his kidney away. That is a HUGE change in the Locke back story.

          • IwantMySonBack

            Excellent point, I wondered that myself. What caused John to be paralyzed in the Alt timeline if it appears as though he is in a good relationship with his father?

          • Nick Stevens

            It also potentially changes James’ story too. If John’s dad is a nice guy, maybe he wasn’t conning folks as Sawyer which means maybe James’ parents didn’t die and he never became Sawyer mk. II.

        • Mark

          What if Kate corresponds to 108? My bet is Jacob knew by giving her the NKOTB lunchbox he was positively reinforcing her value in theft? The premise that is being realized (and especially by Ben) is that everyone is and has been manipulated into their actions. At least in the cases of those with whom Jacob interacted.

  • Tim

    Could Kate be #108 and just wasn’t shown?

  • Natas46

    I rewatched the episode and paused it everytime they show the names and there is clearly a “313 – Littleton” that is crossed out on the wall.

    • lockeheart

      really!! have to check that out. Do you think it could be referring to clare or aaron littleton because if it its refering to clare you would think the “rules” wouldnt have allowed her to be “claimed” by what i assume to be smokey.

      • Nick Stevens

        The boy said “You know the rules. You can’t kill him” which could mean any number of things. If we take it as referring to MiB killing Sawyer, however, then I can see why you’d be suspect about past candidates dying. But then… MiB didn’t kill Claire, or Sayid for that matter. Mercenaries killed the prior and the latter was a combination of the Dharma Initiative and the Temple Others. So y’know… HE didn’t kill them.

        • Jimmy Zer0

          And now Dave trying to convince Hurley to jump off the cliff makes sense.

          • Nick Stevens

            Good call.

        • Ed Holden

          Good call. Perhaps once you’re on “the list” the rules specify that you can only be influenced, not directly killed. Keamy and his mercenaries were not on the list, which is why Ben felt safe calling the monster to deal with them.

          Of course, by the time Ben returned to the Island he was off the list, which is why when he went to be judged by Smokie he fully expected that he could be killed by him, and was only kept alive because he was manipulable.

          • whateverhappenedhappened

            yep, and if we assume Christian was MiB when encouraging Locke to turn the donkey wheel, this idea makes sense too. He wouldn’t help Locke turn it because Locke’s death was an inevitable consequence of turning the wheel.

          • Nick Stevens

            I think you might be over thinking it now. If Christian was MiB then his lack of help with the donkey wheel was likely more to do with his inability to leave the island. I think he can commit acts where the ‘inevitable consequence’ would be death otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to influence Locke at all, if you follow. He just couldn’t have, say, become Smokey and smacked John off the walls until he was dead.

      • Nick Stevens

        Just to add: He also didn’t kill Jacob, Ben did. Of those we know who MiB did kill, well, I haven’t seen their names on the candidate list yet.

        • cap10tripps

          I kind of felt that the boy telling Smokey “you can’t kill him” was refering to Jacob. Jacob wasn’t dead when he was thrown on the fire. I feel like that may have been a big f’ up on his part.

        • MsDee

          Maybe when the little boy said, “You can’t kill him” he meant “YOU can’t kill him”?

          • Nick Stevens

            That’s pretty much what I’m saying, yeah.

          • angjen0816

            I think the “you can’t kill hium” was implied to mean period, directly or indirectly…although he was still alive when Flocke kicked him into the fire.

          • Nick Stevens

            I don’t think the boy was referring to Jacob.

  • Seabiscuit

    Draggy in some parts, but loved everything else.

    • Nick

      are you insane?

      • Kevin James John

        Some people just can’t be please.

        • Funback Joe

          I think seabiscuit is referring to the commercial breaks πŸ™‚

          • Seabiscuit

            Now that you mention it, I did find the Old Spice and Evangeline Lilly L’Oreal commercials to be rather entertaining.

        • Seabiscuit

          I loved this episode, make no mistake. It’s just that I felt some of the FS scenes paled in comparison to what I felt was a vastly superior on-Island story.

          • Funback Joe

            I would agree the on-island stuff was still superior, but I thought flash-sideways stuff was also brilliant in many ways.

            My concern now is that they may have just shown us the most compelling flash sideways story, as Locke happens to be a very compelling character. I hope faith that Jack’s story will be good too, but I wonder how interesting this story technique will be 4-6 weeks from now.

  • Priestybear

    “Kwon” is neither Jin nor Sun, but their unborn baby! And the first name doesn’t appear in the cave because it hasn’t been determined yet. Mark my words…

    • A nice thought but the baby was born and its name is Ji Yeon. It still could be the kid though!

      • cap10tripps

        Plus none of them had their first names written. Unless of course you think it’s Ji Yeon, Aaron, Christian, and Clementine. Like Ryan said nice thought though.

        • Multiple

          What if it is the lineage of these people 4-Locke 8-Reyes 15-Ford 16-Jarrah 23-Shepard 42-Kwon nad as they each/all come to the island to do their part and/or to be a candidate there will either be success or failure. MIB – it always ends the same. Jacob – there is only one end, anything else is change. So, if all of our candidates/players fail – die, give up, return – then maybe their sons/dughters will come to an “island” to play in what ever game this is until the, well…END?

          • eXo

            Sure, but what about the hundreds of other names that have already been crossed out. Your theory would have no need for anyone else.

    • cap10tripps

      Btw I’m not being tonue in cheek. There could be a part of the story having to do with being born or concieved on the island that we’re not aware of yet (certainly hinted about it in the first few seasons). Reyes could refer to the possible conception of a Libby/Hugo baby. Shephard and Ford could be a possible Kate baby which would explain why the name Austen is not written on the cave walls (if in fact it’s not). Just throwing it out there…

      • cap10tripps

        I’m not a believer in this, but again nice thought.

    • angjen0816

      They paid a point in the premire to point out Sun’s last name is Paik..its not sun

  • ivalum21

    So those six people are “candidates” chosen by Jacob. Candidates for what???

    What if they are candidates to be the next Jacob and Man in Black? So what if Flocke is manipulating Sawyer to take his spot? So Flocke will be set free and Sawyer will be stuck on the island just like Flocke is?

    And Flocke can’t appear as anyone else now?? What does that mean? Does it mean we’ll no longer see Christian Shephard anymore? And what happens if we do see Christian again??? I guess it does mean that Sayid isn’t Man in Black nor will he turn into him…

    Great episode…REALLY great episode.

    P.S. What was The Substitute?? What does that episode title mean….?

    • Koobie

      Locke was a substitute teacher in the flash sideways, but this is Lost so there is probably more to it than just that. heh

      • Well the thing I thought of when I first saw this episode’s title (way back over the summer!) was a) a reference to the “The Constant”/”The Variable” line and more importantly, b) a reference to the substitute that Eloise mentioned. Locke would be a substitute for Jack’s father on the plane. I thought that would be explained in this episode. Unfortunately I was mistaken πŸ™‚

        • ivalum21

          Interesting…I’m sure there’s something there, it can’t be an accident that Locke’s body was a substitute for Christian, Locke himself was a substitute teacher in the Flash Sideways, and the episode was called The Substitute, which was also a Locke-centric episode.

          Good call Adam…

          • Flocke is looking for a ‘substitute’ to take over his ‘role’ on the island (just like Jacob is looking for a Candidate – looks like he found him already with Aaron?). Hence the parallel existence as a substitute teacher, imprisoned in his wheelchair.

      • kaptan36

        The substitute is referring to “Sawyer” becoming a substitute for Smokey so he can leave the island and probably also a substitute for Richard who Smokey wanted to recruit, and who was Jacob’s right hand man. It was a Sawyer centered episode, so it makes sense that he is the substitute, and I also believe that it also referred to Locke being a substitute teacher, and being a substitute for his dead self on the island, because we all know that Locke has got to make it back to the island eventually.

        • Cody

          It was actually Locke centric

    • lockeout

      Substitute refers to Sawyer. As you suggested, Flocke is trying to find a substitute to replace him in the game so he can “go home,” and he’s going to try to get Sawyer to be that substitute. Doesn’t really intend to get him off the Island.

      • So if Smokey is trying to trick Sawyer into taking his place on the Island so he (Smokey) can go home, doesn’t that sound similar to the situation Desmond found himself in with Kelvin?
        Kelvin was stuck on the Island and needed someone to take his place so he could go home.

        • Hexonxonx

          I think that was the intended effect. UnLocke specifically said that if the island’s protector abandon’s his post, nothing will happen. The implication is that Jacob and the MIB have been told that they need to protect the island from some unspecified threat, and the Jacob has carried out his duty while MIB doesn’t believe the story and wants to quit. It’s the Swan station on a larger, more spiritual scale. A Sisyphean task with unspecified consequences of quitting and a replacement that never seems to arrive? We’ve seen that before.

          And yes, I think a lot of actions by the Monster can be put in perspective now, including the events in E218 with Dave and Hurley. The Monster can’t kill candidates, but he can influence them to kill themselves or put them in peril. See also E105 when Jack chases Christian off a cliff.

        • kaptan36

          I also have a theory that maybe Kelvin, and Desmond and Radzinky or whoever was in the hatch at the time, were unknowing substitutes for Jacob while he made trips off island, and in fact allowed him to leave the island. Think about it, all the visits we have seen Jacob make off island have to have been after 1977 when the hatch was built; and if I’m not mistaken as well, all the people who the numbers represent had pressed the button in the hatch at one point or another. Desmond wasn’t on the wall because he wasn’t on the island anymore, his job was done and his role played out, and maybe there is even possibly a substitute for him on the island now. Which may make sense that “pushing the button was the most important thing he would ever do with his life”. It is always ellude to that Jacob “brings” people to the island. Maybe he “brought” the Dharma Initiative to the island specifically to build the hatch so someone would always press the button, hence protecting the island so he could make trips off island.
          Also, does anyone else believe that Smokey was actually trapped in the Cabin and tricked Ben into believing he was Jacob and had been pulling Ben’s strings the whole time? I believe that Ben was to Smokey as Richard is to Jacob. It would also explain why Ben is such a conniving, diabolical liar and why Richard seems to be pretty straightforward and generally wants to find the best solution for everyone to every problem and why he can be reasoned with. I also think Ilyana was prob once a candidate for Jacob too, or maybe Jacob even took her place as the island’s protector. So to add to my last post about the substitute, I believe Sawyer was a substitute for Ben, because Smokey had no use for him anymore and because Ben would no longer follow him and do his bidding. I would be willing to bet that this theory is part of the story. Genius really. And no I don’t work for ABC.

          Btw; totally unrelated, but I was always wondering whatg was the real deal behind the whole Ben/Juliet thing. I feel as if they set it up for there to be some kind of special connection between them, but then they totally got away from it. Like when after Ben killed Goodwin, he told Juliet “because you’re mine!”, and I always felt that there should have been more behind that statement than Ben just being a crazy, jealous, lonely, pyschopath. Ironic though that Ben felt Juliet was meant for him, but she ended up with Sawyer, who in turn seems to have replaced ben as Smokey’s right hand man. And whatever happened to Goodwin’s wife? She showed up for one episode, supposedly delivered a message for Ben, and hasn’t been seen since. I have a feeling this may have been a plotline that got dropped or the actor found other work like the black guy who worked for Whidmore who’s now on Fringe. Thoughts? Comments?

          • Newbie

            On Ben – Nope don’t think MIB/smokey was pulling the strings because he could see or hear whoever was in the cabin — only John could! I think Ben sad to say is just a pawn! “What about you Ben?”

            On plot lines — I too would have like some resolution on Ben/Juliet . . . wouldn’t it be funny if they were married in the Flash Sideways world?

          • Newbie

            cound not see – that is

          • MsDee

            Eko also punched the numbers into the computer and if anyone is a candidate it would be him. I would think lol

      • heythereyourself

        Nobody did but if you ask my opinion “Substitute” is a reference to Locke’s entire life. I’ve noticed that in the X timeline or Flash-Sideways, that there are a lot of differences, but also a lot of similarities. In the first reality, the one we came to know over the last 5 seasons, John was a substitute for Christian, in the new timeline John becomes a “substitute”, and now his body is being used as a substitute for the MIB’s original form. It reminds me of the lone Faraday said something about how you can’t change the future. Is it possible that even though they created, we think, different circumstances, but we all end up being what we were meant to anyways?? Also did anyone else notice that the MIB or Flocke seem to think the idea of a candidate was ridiculous, and that the names and numbers were all Jacob’s creation, and that he wanted no part of it and he just wanted to leave the island, yet he still took the time to cross of #4-Locke. Why would he bother? I think he is trying to manipulate Ford into offing himself to remove his name from the list, but I don’t think that Flocke really wants off the island.

    • Todd

      I also took it to the effect that Flocke is substituting for Locke. Maybe that’s a stretch.

    • MsDee

      If the names on the cave wall mean possible candidates. That would mean that both Jacob and MIB were searching for candidates. If both had the same goal, why did MIB need/want Jacob dead? Couldn’t both of them recruit for candidates to be on their side without killing each other? eh I’m not making sense LOL

  • cap10tripps

    I would love Sawyer to be the true candidate, but everything points to Jack. It’d be interesting to see it end up as Sawyer and Jack taking over for both Smokey and Jacob. Seems we said goodbye to our old friend John Locke tonight, although still holding onto hope. Is it still possible??? Great episode (as every single Locke centric has ever been).

    • Casey

      Frank: “This is the weirdest damn funeral I’ve ever been to.”

  • Craig

    I like the Aaron as the little kid idea, very possible. Still puzzled about Kate not being one of the numbers even though she was touched by Jacob, unless she has more importance then we think? I didn’t think an episode this early in the season would give us so much but yet again so little πŸ˜› … Fantastic episode!

    • lockeheart

      yeah, im liken the aaron as that little kid idea too. It really kinda reminded me of walt and how he would supposebly appear at places he shouldnt be.

      • MsDee

        hey Lockheart, you may just have something there. What of the little boy is neither Aaron or Jacob but the same possessor who used Walt as a host to speak to the Losties. Maybe since TPTB could not bring Walt back due to his growth spurt they decide the same entity using Walt as host will now use this child and they will somehow explain along the way how the possessor once used Walt. Question now is, Who was the possessor was it MIB the entire time?

        • Nick Stevens

          I like your line of thinking but in the May 21 2008 Podcast, Darlton stated that some of the Walt manifestations were Smokey and we can infer from Bea Klugh’s questioning of Michael that Walt himself can appear elsewhere. For there to be a third party who has also appeared as Walt that would mean there’s been three Walts, as it were. Seems a bit much.

          • LV

            Thanks for the reminder re: some Walt manifestations being Smokey. Everyone’s been assuming that Smokey could only appear as dead people, but clearly Walt is not dead. Are there any other exceptions like that? I can’t think of any.

          • Nick Stevens

            It’s also quite possible that the on-island version of Dave was Smokey too, and he was never alive to begin with.

    • kaptan36

      Maybe Jack & Sawyer are meant to replace Jacob and Smokey in the game(island), and Kate is the prize for the winner and they will fight for her.

      • naultz

        Talk about a damaged door prize

  • Jack’s Sidekick

    I’m rooting for Jack. My theory was right about the numbers representing the people.

    • Jack’s Sidekick

      As for the episode: the best yet of the season. Locke breaks hearts for sure. I kind of expected Helen to die since in “The Life And Death Of Jeremy Bentham,” Abaddon told Locke that it was her path to die, even if he had been there. Of course after seeing Ben as a teacher, we can expect Locke to pop up again in “Dr. Linus” (6-7). I could see the two becoming buddies. Ben at the wedding as a last minute best man? And her death could be a great dramatic scene between the two. Any one else love Ben’s Eulogy for Locke tonight? The only thing I missed was the epic Locke music, though these new themes are nice too. But over all a great episode. I can’t wait for the Jack-centric “Light House next week.

      • Jack’s Sidekick

        And the last scene with the names and numbers was something we would have killed to see back in season 1. This was the most important LOST moment yet.

      • kaptan36

        I agree about missing the themes. The music is nowhere near as good since the original composer left the show. I felt that in the first 3 or 4 seasons the score was so good and really added the emotion to the show and I feel the new scored doesn’t do the same.

        • Jeremy

          Michael Giacchino has scored every episode of Lost; they have not changed composers.

  • Ariel

    Is Locke’s name on the wall twice? One screenshot seems to have his name crossed out. Another doesn’t.

    • Funback Joe

      Flocke does cross it out at one point during the scene. Maybe a little before/after action

  • David Bradlee

    ittleton was a crossed out Name, So was Lewis (Charlotte ?). Also saw O’Toole and Domingo.

  • Lockab

    Man in Black appeared to Ben as Alex after coming back as John Locke. Does that mean that he can no longer change form now that Jacob is dead or is Ilana just wrong?

    • Todd

      Good point, hadn’t thought of that. That seems like the best explanation – that Jacob dying means some of his magic spells on people are broken. Makes sense; Flocke didn’t seem to want Jacob dead just for the sake of it, more like he needed it done before he does something else. Maybe Richard will start aging again.

    • C

      Or . . . as I’ve thought to myself once or twice . . . does it mean that the Alex vision was NOT smokey? This would explain why Smocke was surprised to hear it when Ben described what happened. I doubt that smokey is behind all of the apparitions we’ve seen on the island since the beginning; there seems to be some other force at work (e.g. we’ve never seen smokey be an animal). Perhaps Jacob, but it’s not clear Jacob has the ability to take on other faces a la smokey.

      My money is on a third force, perhaps the island itself. Maybe, to speculate further, it is the island who is the prisoner, seeking to be free of Jacob’s and Smokey’s machinations, and is seeking a champion. Like, say, Desmond . . . or even “the real” John Locke (how we might see that resurrection is unclear, but an appealing thought!). Maybe the cabin is the “home” of the personifications of this force (Christian, Claire). The “help me . . . ” that Locke heard when he first visited the cabin might be the island seeking its own recruitment. Oh, and perhaps “the sickness” really refers to the island taking over individuals . . . if disciples of Jacob are really trying to keep the island tied up/imprisoned, they would have good reason to be frightened of someone who was reborn as a personification of the island, e.g. Sayid. Anyway, to go back to the original point, maybe the island appeared as Alex to tell Ben to go along with Smocke, because the island is playing the REALLY long con, and Smocke’s machinations fit into the island’s ultimate goals.

  • David Bradlee

    Wasn’t Ben wearing the same outfit as in the Picture that Miles had back in season 4 ?

  • Lockab

    I think the off-island timeline shows us a world where none of the Oceanic 815 survivors had ever been touched by Jacob. Without his influence on (or manipulation in) their lives, we see how they lived and made their own choices, but we also see how fate still played a role by having them cross paths with one another. It seems they were all better off without Jacob using them in his game.

    • Lego

      You are right one here. I also think besides the whole fate issue we are going to see what happens to our parallel universe when no substitute is found. The island was not defended and is now underwater. I suspect we will see some horrible consequence to this, like the end of the (parallel) world.

      • Lego

        I mean to say right on.

    • I thought this too for a while, but how do you explain Hurley’s alt if Jacob didn’t touch him until 2007?

      • Hexonxonx

        As UnLocke said, these people have been influenced for a long time. We saw specific incidences of Jacob touching these individuals, but he may have subtly influenced them in other ways long before that.

        Also, little James Ford was touched by Jacob in 1976, before the bomb went off.

      • verylost

        I tend to think that the numbers are what did Hurley in. If Jacob never recruited these people, the numbers never would have existed. So Hurley never would have used them to win the lottery…..maybe I’m way off base here.

  • How could the boy possibly be Aaron? Can we get some logical guesses here? Aaron is three years old and is with his way to young looking Grandmother. Enough said on that.

    What if all is in the hands of a child? What if that boy is the game master and everyone in the show, including Jacob and the Man in Black are all pieces? Take a look at Jacob’s tapestry (http://tle1lost.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/116168_032.jpg).
    If you look at the top, the people are looking up to the eye of the Sun, which I think represents the TRUE island God (possibly this boy). Look to the sides of the people; one person on the left and right of them, sitting in chairs looking prestigious. Jacob and the Man in Black, perhaps? Look at the people below this- could they represent the dead characters (One of which is playing a harp, so that could be Charlie)? The bottom of the tapestry shows an image of a raft leaving an island, which reminds me of something, can’t remember what πŸ™‚

    I’m not much of a theorist; I enjoy LOST mostly just by watching it, not by trying to figure things out commercial break to commercial break. But after seeing this boy tonight, it makes me think that there is a stronger spiritual presence on the island.

    • Todd

      I like your way of thinking. There’s always been some good misdirection as to the endgame of Lost. In Season 2 it was all “push the button, save the world” and season 4 was “Linus vs. Widmore”. “Jacob vs. Smokey” is definitely getting close, but we should probably assume there’s still a significant piece or two missing.

    • Ament

      I like the spiritual boy idea, I mean is it coincidence they showed us briefly each lostie as a young child (except the kwons as of yet) and how they did something that relates to who they are today. Sayid breaking the chickens neck to spare his brother from living with that guilt is an example of how he today kills but for a good purpose.

      • Wafik

        Sun was shown as a kid. Remember when she was practicing piano (i think) and she broke some crystal figurine, blamed it on the maid so she doesn’t get in trouble? The maid got fired, and set the tone for the rest of the episode.

        Jin on the other hand, I can’t remember any “Child” episode, but there were “Pre Sun” episodes which had him at a much younger time.

        • Ament

          Good memory, I remember that episode so yes Sun was shown as a child.

        • Lego

          Interesting what character have been shown as children…kate,sun,jack,sawyer,locke,sayid

      • MsDee

        We see Sun as a child in the episode about the glass ballerina

  • Wanda

    Don’t forget Bram and Ilana believed Frank Lapidus was a candidate too. He does seem to have that pull to the island. I wouldn’t assume Kate’s not up there too.

    Loved seeing Rose off island. And Ben in the breakroom whining…great stuff.

    But my favorite part was that Sawyer was the first person who knew Flocke wasn’t Locke.

  • Todd

    Locke’s reaction when Sawyer sees the boy: “You see him too?” Before this I thought the implication was that all the random on-island character and horse apparitions were really Smokey, but if Smokey is used to seeing them himself, what else is behind them? Jacob? The boy himself might be real, but he lectures Locke on “the rules” so he’s obviously in the loop. Could this be a third ancient supercharacter?

    • Wanda

      I think the boy is Jacob because of his reference to the rules (you can’t kill him…meaning, I supposed, Sawyer).

      Not everyone has seen Jacob since he died. Hurley and Sawyer both did though. Although an hour after his death, he was still adult Jacob.

    • Nick Stevens

      I reckon the boy is a third ancient, yeah. To my current way of thinking if MiB is the black stone, and Jacob was the white stone, then the boy is the scales.

    • Kirk

      One other point is that Richard could NOT see the boy while Sawyer could. Not sure of the implications of this other than that Sawyer is somehow different than Richard.

      • ivalum21

        Could it be because Sawyer is a Candidate? Richard is not?

      • Sawyer could also see Kate’s horse. And Hurley could see the cabin.

  • Joey D.

    Loved when he took the white rock off of the scale and threw it in the ocean

    • Joey D.

      Does it have to do with the scales tipping in favor of darkness…..or is it a reference to the Black Rock slaver?

      • Wafik

        I think it has to do with “Jacob is dead” – There is now the black piece in power and there is nobody in the seat of power for the white piece.

        • verylost

          “Inside joke”- great line.

  • Lockab

    Other names written on Jacob’s wall:
    Sullivan – the guy with the rash we haven’t seen since the first season
    Cunningham – an American soldier from the 50s who’s uniform was being worn by an Other before being killed by young Widmore for talking too much
    Mattingley – the uniform of another dead American soldier worn by the other killed by John Locke as he was about to cut off Juliet’s hand
    Lewis – as in Charlotte Staples

    Anyone else who has a decent HD TV able to make any out?

    • Shaun

      I caught the name “Troup” (as in Gary, the supposed author of the Bad Twin manuscript/book)/ The name Gary Troup, as I’m sure many of you recall, is an anagram for “purgatory.”

      Mostly, I’m curious as to why Kate wasn’t included amongst the “current” names. I mean, if they’re going to kill her off they could’ve done it last week and saved us all from that crappy episode! At least “The Substitute” appears to have us back on track. Hard to go wrong with a Locke/Flocke episode!

    • Twitchy

      – Jones, the us army uniform Widmore was wearing in 1954
      – O’Toole
      – Domingo

      Other people also spotted Pace (Charlie)

  • Lockab

    Goodspeed’s on the wall too. The Others have killed quite a few of the candidates.

    • Ed Holden

      I suspect Goodspeed is Ethan rather than Horace. That would explain why Ethan was taken in by the Others. He was on the list.

  • Ament

    Now let me get this right, they showed us inscribed the numbers that they’ve showed us since S1 and attached to these numbers is a name of our losties. Ok, how did dharma know this, not the names but the numbers? They had it engraved on the hatch and used them as a code to save the world along with showing heiroglyphs past the 108 mark. This may be one of those questions not being answered it’s just between the heiroglyphs and numbers existing in dharma equipment when in S5 they clearly showed us dharma’s hatred towards the hostiles/others/temple people yet using these shows a link.

    • Mark

      agreed that it is puzzling. but dharma knows a lot about the island (how to find it, all its interesting properties, the donkey wheel “exotic matter”, faraday worked for dharma and he knew a lot). i assume they knew of the numbers too and thats why they used them. they know they are significant in relation to the island. maybe they found that cave? although lots of names and their corresponding numbers would have still been up there and not crossed out back in the 70’s so i dont know how they saw the importance in 4,8,15,16,23,42.

      • lockeheart

        Im starting to think that dhmarma is a very important part in this whole story. I think it might even be possible that jacob himself made the whole dharma inititive happen by “pulling the strings” of people like widamore, hanso, and the degroots. Since jacob had is hand in dharma the numbers being used in the hatch is just kind of, well… a coincedence. I dont think dharma knows anything about the cave or our losties name by each number. I think the numbers are more of a thing that appears because jacob is somehow projecting them almost like sending out a signal across time, space, and reality.

        • Ed Holden

          Or perhaps Smokie created Dharma. I have a weird suspicion that he’s had influence off the island.

          I’ve also been pondering that perhaps Charles Widmore switched sides when he was banished, and has been working for Smokie since the that time (and perhaps earlier). It might explain why both he and Jacob-followers were trying to get the 815ers back to the Island in Season 5: Smokie and Jacob had the same short-term goals for the 815ers but wildly divergent long-term plans for them on the Island.

    • Nick Turner

      Well Dharma knew about the Valenzetti Equation, so that is why they are concerned with the numbers.

      http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation

      • Lego

        Valenzetti is important, it maps the mathematical solution to save the world to the numbers. Dharma just didn’t know the numbers represented people.

        • Wanda

          It’s not clear the numbers do represent people. I suspect the reverse–the people Jacob’s sought out represent numbers.

      • Ament

        Lostpedia – “Alvar Hanso also states in the video that the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative is to change the numerical values of any one of the core factors in the equation in order to give humanity a chance to survive by, effectively, changing doomsday. However, Thomas Mittelwerk reveals that as of 2006, they have failed to change the values through manipulating the environment, as the equation continues to arrive at the same six numbers.”

        4,8,15,16,23,42. According to this Valenzetti equation only one of these core numbers (or Lostie) needs to change. Alright I get this except now we just lost a core number to play a role anymore if #4-Locke is crossed out and out of the picture wouldn’t it have changed? Unless #4 is still in play.

    • If you are going to start asking questions like that, then you have to ask why Oceanic chose flight 815 to crash on the Island and why they put Jack on row 23 and how the girls soccer team at the airport knew to line up as the numbers.

      • I don’t know…the numbers on the hatch and their use as energy release code seem more pointed than a nifty soccer shout out.

    • Hexonxonx

      I think the point is that the Numbers existed before Jacob made his list. There are at least 300+ candidates, and all but six have failed. Even if DHARMA came across the cave in the early 70’s, there would have been many more names left that hadn’t yet been crossed out so they wouldn’t have found anything special about the Numbers. The Numbers are significant in some way that precedes Jacob and the Monster.

    • teeth63a

      “hurley, they’re just numbers” -Jack. Some uses of the numbers are deliberate (ie Valenzetti), some are conincidental (ie the soccer girls, prescription number on Desmond’s pill bottle).

  • greg dharma

    so, candidates is anyone brought to the island? wouldnt that be pretty much everyone?

    loved the scales, btw–“an inside joke,” flocke says.

    not bad for a character-driven ep. what a comeback after the katecentric.

  • joe_bones

    my theory is that smokey needs sawyer not to replace him, but to set him free. the rules state (maybe) that smokey can only be set free by someone making a free choice to free him

    • Nick Stevens

      Or possibly he’s just trying to systematically eliminate all potential candidates and then when that’s done and there’s not going to be a Jacob 2.0, he’ll be free.

    • Nick Stevens

      And when I say eliminate, I do not mean kill, necessarily (and certainly not directly). Just removing them from the running.

  • Mark

    that whole black rock/white rock thing is making me think about adam and eve again. if the rocks represent jacob and MiB then who are these skeletons? other ancients we’ve yet to meet? part of the ‘shadow of the statue’ ppl (maybe one is ilana)? or ppl who just happen to possess the rocks but dont know their meaning? maybe jack and kate become more involved in the jacob/MiB stuff and they come into possession of the rocks (maybe they are the true candidates)?

    • Nick Turner

      I just assume they are Rose and Bernard who didn’t flash out of 1977 and died in the caves.

      Otherwise someone important has to go back in time and die pre-2004

  • Mel

    I loved this episode, it revealed a bit, but in Lost fashion, it created more questions. Who is the true candidate? Why isn’t Kate on the ‘candidates’ list? If Kate isn’t a ‘candidate’ does Jacob touching her have any special significance like the others?

    It can’t be because she broke his ‘rules’ or was ‘bad’ because all the other characters he touched have done something bad in his/her life. Sawyer, Sayid, Jin and Hurley have killed either on or off the island too… so, what’s the significance? I really want to know.
    And I like to beleive that the little boy is Aaron. He looked a bit older, but who cares? Heaps of time has passed because of the time travel. It could be him!!

  • Wafik

    Unless I missed something, it’s only men who were up for being candidates. No women.

    In order of Introduction :
    23 – Shepherd
    8 – Reyes
    16 – Jarrah
    42 – Kwon
    4 – Locke
    15 – Ford

    Assuming I’m right, 42 = Jin Kwon not Sun.

    • Scott S.

      This is absolutely true. And, even if, as someone mentioned, the name Littleton was there, it could be Aaron rather than Claire…I think the protector role is one for men only.

    • cap10tripps

      Interesting that Josh Holloway had a quote in a recent interview (posted on this site) about Sawyer being so distraught because he failed at what men are to their core, a protector.

    • Ament

      As soon as they mentioned the names they purposely showed us how Jacob touched these individuals. He touched both Jin and Sun at the same time, so my interpretation is that these two fall under one name. Here lies the true love story of the island. Lets forget the triangle for a second and focus on the journey these two have been going through to be back together or at least hopes to be back together.

  • Josh

    Well two later episodes in the season are called…

    *spoiler*

    The Recruit
    The Candidate

    *end spoilers*

    • Cutter XXIII

      Hey thanks, Blabbermouth.

      Spoilers in the comments are AWESOME. Not.

    • Lego

      puttying *spoiler* and then on the next line which I can ALREADY SEE putting the spoiler does not constitute ample warning ASSHOLE!

      • theresa

        Wow. The episode names are not a spoiler anyway. They are common knowledge at this point. Way to have an overblown violent reaction.

        • Hexonxonx

          I’d consider any more than an episode name or two in advance to be a spoiler. I don’t know where to learn of future episode titles without going to specific spoiler sites. These aren’t common knowledge.

          • The Recruit and The Candidate are not real episode titles, don’t worry.

    • Twitchy

      Yeah, right.

      You definitely are

      * Spoiler *

      an asshole

      * end spoiler *

  • MiNaeClem

    Ilana took the ashes of Jacob. Do you think the ashes they were using against the smoke monster belonged to previous candidates? There seemed to be a lot of ashes used for that to be true though. But I think there’s some connection or significance to that.

    • Space

      Perhaps Jacob’s ashes could be used to purify the pool in the Temple?

    • If Jacob’s ashes are now being collected for a purpose other than some sort of respect, is it possible the ashes we’ve seem used up until now have belonged to MiB? Maybe the ashes of their previous incarnation of control acts as a defense mechanism when used by an opposing team.

      • Nick Stevens

        So why would Illana want them? She was on Jacob’s side.

  • JoeD

    It looks like all of the canidates are men, so I am guessing that it is Jin and and that is why Kate’s name is not up there.

    • LockaB

      Littleton (Claire) and Lewis (Charlotte) were both on the wall and crossed out.

      • Scott S.

        Littelton, Aaron?
        Lewis…not sure. But so far, it looks male-oriented.

        • naultz

          The “Lewis” on the wall probably refers to Charlotte’s dad. Charlotte grew up on the island, which means her parents were in the dharma initiative. she left with he mom during the evacuation, but Dad’s wereabouts were never mentioned.

        • Sawyer is my constant

          Lewis could be Charlottes father, she was a child on the island.

  • Dharma Chameleon

    I have recently become quite intrigued by all of this.

    Is it possible that the numbers refer to passenger numbers assigned on the Oceanic flight? I think Jack was 23. Another thought I had around “23-Shepard” was Psalm 23 the lord is my Shepard I shall not want…

    Thanks

    • LockaB

      Locke sat a row behind Jack, which would be 24, so . . . no.

    • naultz

      the number 313 was crossed out on the wall. that would be one BIG plane.

  • GeigerCounter

    this episode is an instant favorite
    I was shocked when Helen came out of the house to help John. Such a small thing and yet it’s a big twist. And the island stuff was just awesome. The big mythological ending aside, I loved John’s funeral and Sawyer. Josh Holloway continues to rock. And what about that action sequence on the ladders? It was done brilliantly. Oh, and Smoke John traveling around the island. Just great. This episode had amazing stuff in it.

  • Pantagathus

    Fantastic! Great acting, great episode

  • Dominick

    No one has asked the question that seems crucial to the theory of what the bomb did.
    How is Ben alive in the flash sideways?
    As theories have mostly agreed, the bomb detonating sent the island to the bottom of the ocean, started the flash sideways in 2004, and killing everyone on the island in 1977 including the Others (except of course those who returned to the alternate 2004). How was Ben included but none of the other Others?
    Is Ben somehow going to bring our losties from alternate 2004 to the island (which will have to be raised from the sea floor), and was he saved from the clast so that he could do this under the direction of Jacob?
    The second question is more of a specculation, but the critical question is the first one, How did Ben survive the sinking of the island?

    • grasspike

      The sinking of the island was a seperate event from the Bomb going off at the Swan.

      In the whatever happened happened time line of the island the bomb always goes off which directly leads to the numbers being entered and Desmond crashing the plane. This was always the incident and the reason the plane crashed

      My guess is that at some point this season perhaps in the last episode something is going to happen on the island timeline that changes the need for the bomb to ever go off. This will predate Locke even being born. Remember in the flash sideways Helen wanted to go to Vegas with Locke’s father to get married so him and Locke must be on good terms which means he was never a conman.

      The flash sideways are a peek at what would have happened to the 815ers if Jacob had never brought them to the island. Jacob bringing them to the island is what killed him. So perhaps Jacob or someone else like the mystery kid can go back in time and change his mind so as not to bring them to the island at all.

    • GeigerCounter

      Ben was still a kid at the time. Didn’t they evacuate women and children before the incident was supposed to happen?

      • teeth63a

        I beleive he was already shot by Sayid and taken to the temple before the evacuation.

        • Wanda

          Yes because that’s why Sawyer and Juliet were put on the sub in handcuffs. Along with Kate in handcuffs.

    • theresa

      Well basically if a time line was reset by the bomb going off… it will result in the Oceanic passengers never travelling back in time in the first place. (Which should make the flash sideways end in 2007 at the point when Ajira crashes and Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid go back in time. If they don’t go back in time…. they never set off the bomb, so the flash sideways never happens…)
      Anyway, If Oceanic never crashed… then our time travelers on the island during the skipping were never there. So any small influence they had on the past island would not happen. For example… Faraday would have never told them to bury jughead…. etc. All of those small things that never happen would cause small changes … or a ripple effect of changes to the 2004 reality. Basically a slightly different chain of events would result in some people never going to the island.

  • Dominick

    Just to clarify, I assumed the only people saved from the bomb detonation were the ones who time traveled back to 1977 (the time traveling losties) while the people who were already on island (Dharma and Others) perished in the blast. Time traveling losties returned to 2007 in the bomb didn’t explode universe AND began the bomb did explode alternate universe senario seen in flash-sideways, meanwhile everyone else continued to exist in the bomb didn’t explode universe AND perished in the bomb did explode alternate universe senario seen in flash-sideways where the island sank.
    How did Ben survive in the bomb did explode alternate universe?

    • jon

      I think we are assuming to much in thinking that the bomb sunk the island with everyone on it. What if what we are seeing is caused by something completely different. What if this is an alt reality that has always existed and so Ben never even made it to the island. such as his mother never died in labor?

      • Zonker

        Yes, that has to be it. Yet it is difficult to imagine what event sunk the island if not Jughead. That event had to be after Dharma, since we see the Barracks playground at the bottom of the ocean. I believe some have claimed seeing the Dharma tatoo on the shark in that same sequence as well.

        So we still have a number of mysterious events:

        1- The statue gets toppled some time after the arrival of the sailing ship, but before the arrival of Ben as a child.

        2- The Incident = Jughead? Were the events alluded to in Season 2 the same as shown in Season 5, or not?

        3- The sinking of the island in Flash-sideways world. I suppose this could be the same as the statue-toppling event, occuring in the few years after the establishment of Dharma, but before Ben and Roger’s arrival on the island. Maybe Horace Goodspeed also never made it to the island in this reality, so his son Ethan spends his entire life on the mainland?

  • Zonker

    What I mean is perhaps statue topples in both timelines:

    Season 1-4 timeline: Statue topples, but island survives.
    Flashsideways world: Same event topples the statue but also sinks the entire island!

    Maybe.

  • kaptan36

    I also have a theory that maybe Kelvin, and Desmond and Radzinky or whoever was in the hatch at the time, were unknowing substitutes for Jacob while he made trips off island, and in fact allowed him to leave the island. Think about it, all the visits we have seen Jacob make off island have to have been after 1977 when the hatch was built; and if I’m not mistaken as well, all the people who the numbers represent had pressed the button in the hatch at one point or another. Desmond wasn’t on the wall because he wasn’t on the island anymore, his job was done and his role played out, and maybe there is even possibly a substitute for him on the island now. Which may make sense that “pushing the button was the most important thing he would ever do with his life”. It is always ellude to that Jacob “brings” people to the island. Maybe he “brought” the Dharma Initiative to the island specifically to build the hatch so someone would always press the button, hence protecting the island so he could make trips off island.
    Also, does anyone else believe that Smokey was actually trapped in the Cabin and tricked Ben into believing he was Jacob and had been pulling Ben’s strings the whole time? I believe that Ben was to Smokey as Richard is to Jacob. It would also explain why Ben is such a conniving, diabolical liar and why Richard seems to be pretty straightforward and generally wants to find the best solution for everyone to every problem and why he can be reasoned with. I also think Ilyana was prob once a candidate for Jacob too, or maybe Jacob even took her place as the island’s protector. So to add to my last post about the substitute, I believe Sawyer was a substitute for Ben, because Smokey had no use for him anymore and because Ben would no longer follow him and do his bidding. I would be willing to bet that this theory is part of the story. Genius really. And no I don’t work for ABC.

    Btw; totally unrelated, but I was always wondering whatg was the real deal behind the whole Ben/Juliet thing. I feel as if they set it up for there to be some kind of special connection between them, but then they totally got away from it. Like when after Ben killed Goodwin, he told Juliet “because you’re mine!”, and I always felt that there should have been more behind that statement than Ben just being a crazy, jealous, lonely, pyschopath. Ironic though that Ben felt Juliet was meant for him, but she ended up with Sawyer, who in turn seems to have replaced ben as Smokey’s right hand man. And whatever happened to Goodwin’s wife? She showed up for one episode, supposedly delivered a message for Ben, and hasn’t been seen since. I have a feeling this may have been a plotline that got dropped or the actor found other work like the black guy who worked for Whidmore who’s now on Fringe. Thoughts? Comments?

    Booyah!

    • IwantMySonBack

      if smokey was trapped in the cabin, how did he kill the pilot of the plane and so many other people early on. I think man in cabin might be someone else? Still unclear on this

      • Ament

        I don’t think it was MiB in the cabin and it was actually Jacob, thats why Illana and Bram traveled there first and found the clue in where he is located now. The ring of ash was most likely broken by Hurley when he tripped to run away from the cabin which made it dangerous for Jacob to stay or maybe allowed Jacob to leave if he follows the same rules as MiB.

  • “well I guess I’m gonna have to put some pants on” – Sawyer

    Did we see some vulnerability in Flocke as he chased after the little blonde boy… Jacob? Aaron??

    The numbers revealed! Ben a teacher, that threw me for a loop. Is he still a sneaky “Ben” or just normal now (eh hem) because he never was saved from the healing spa thus “he will never be the same”.

    I watched Michael Emerson on Kimmel last night and he said every little thing you see has big meaning and mentioned “spinoff” more than once. Hmmmm

    Richard is still very terrified, that was funny!

    • Twitchy

      Yes, Marc, it’s true: we saw vulnerability in Flocke as he chased after the little blonde boy.
      It seems a cliche: the ‘baby-king’ or ‘with s-natural powers’ able to trouble even the strongest.

      Spinoff???? Like “Saved by the Bell” with Ben, Locke having to deal with Aron, JiYong and maybe Walt???
      ‘SAVED BY THE BEN”! Awesome!!

    • Todd

      Flocke: “I know what it’s like to lose someone you love.” Yeah, we should have some heavy backstory coming up from these guys.

      Richard is somehow always capable of bringing out a smile or a laugh. Funniest moment in the entire series was “It’s a compass” from S5.

  • qwerty99

    What about another possibility that I have yet to see mentioned; what if both timelines/alt/parallel sites exist simultaneously? What if they are both present, but we won’t know it until someone tries to leave and runs into him/herself?

    • Wanda

      They aren’t simultaneous though. It’s 2004 in LA X and 2007 or 2008 in the other (on island).

    • Ament

      We’re watching them in 2004 off island. In this alternative life the island was shown submerged and the amount of coral growth suggests it’s been down there a while. Here’s a thought let’s say jughead did that, it went off and submerged the island and Juliet telling Miles “it worked” is exactly that. The “Namaste” picture taken in 77′ is still out there and mainland because Daniel seen it off island. Wouldn’t that be a culture shock if it surfaced.

      • Ament

        Scratch that the picture couldn’t of existed. The 77′ explosion preventing the crash landing – preventing the losties to start timetravel – preventing the visit in 54′ and have richard bury jughead – which must of caused an earlier incident to happen which most likely submerged the island allowing us to see Ben off island. I read a theory further down this page that makes sense.

  • kaptan36

    uh duh!? That is the case, and even the writers have said as much on several ocassions.

  • IwantMySonBack

    Just some observations…looking at the screen caps, noticed 96-Troupe and what looks like 11-Straume. Can that be as in Gary and Miles, respectively? Both are crossed out.

    Really curious as well as to why Flocke is now “locked” as Locke’s likeness. I also think it has to do with Jacob being killed. Also, when Richard and Flocke were having that conversation in the forest, do you think that Richard was unable to see the little boy as Flocke did, or did the little boy just vanish by the time Richard turned to look in his direction?

    • Cody

      i got the impression richard couldn’t see the boy, which was why locke seemed surprised when sawyer could

  • brewsterdmb

    (42 Kwon + 4 Locke + 8 Reyes = 54)

    AND

    (23 Shephard + 16 Jarrah + 15 Ford = 54)

    ….Balanced on a scale of good and evil?

    • brewsterdmb

      Noting that all the numbers add up to 108, is this a total value (balance) that must be maintained?

  • jessea

    the number HAVE been explained, as the Valenzetti equation…
    the cave explained their role on the island. except for a few details, the
    numbers are 98% answered, you can cross it off your list.

    • Todd

      I think we’ll still get a clearer explanation of them, though. We’re certainly set up for a flashback of Jacob writing on the wall and the ‘inside joke’ between him and MIB explained.

  • Funback Joe

    Does anyone wonder if flashbacks will be implemented again? To possibly explore Richard’s beginnings, and/or the relationship between Jacob and MIB? How about things like Locke’s broken back in the alternate universe? If he is cool with his dad, its possible it was broken a different way.

    What do u folks think?

    • I definitely think we’ll get a Richard flashback. They have to. We did get a few flashbacks in S4, like Juliet.

    • Ament

      A Richard flashback would answer some good questions, at the same time he may just tell us his story through dialog like he almost started doing with Sawyer when he bumped into him in the jungle.

  • The Magician

    LOL at anyone voting this as the worst ever….

  • Twitchy

    HELEN’S FACE LIFTING made me saaaaaaaaaaad

  • Twitchy

    Last thing to the writers: GIVE LAPIDUS 2 LINES (at least)!!!! He’s been on screen even less than the crab on dead Locke’s corpse, holy sh–

  • dolce

    Seriously, who are the 2 jackasses that voted this worst episode ever? Or the 25 that voted below average. What show are you watching?

    • Nick Stevens

      Maybe they are disenfranchised shippers? πŸ˜€ I jest.

  • Sawyer is my constant

    I believe the numbers have more Significance than we have seen yet. The fact that each person has a specific number and that certain numbers have played a specific role in our losties lives (this could just be coincidence*). Maybe the numbers are reference to how many times the individual was used/played/touched. This is obviously a game, FLOCKE and JACOB being the players, the losties, the DI, Desmond, Henry Gale…all pawns. Wish I knew more about backgammon, seems the “rules” maybe similar.

    *”Do not mistake coincidence for fate”

    Also what was up with that look Locke gave ben in flashsideways world!?! I got the impression Locke was up to something in Sidney and there is much more to his sideways story.

    I think Kate (I LOVE Kate BTW) is being used as a tool to sway Jack and Sawyer in this game. I don’t think she is a candidate for this reason, but she is certainly important. It was Kate who aided in Juliet setting off the bomb.

    I am still processing what the ramifications were of the explosion and what “it worked” meant. I did notice that the hatch implosion site was not the same as in ’04, there were some pieces in it from ’77 as well. I think the two explosions, when desmond turned the fail safe and when juliet set off the bomb created a wormhole between the two times, sending our losties to ’07 as they needed to be AFTER the bomb went off creating the incident. This would explain the precise timing in desmond NOT pushing the button and turning the failsafe.

    • cap10tripps

      Love this! Been thinking the exact same thing regarding the wormhole between the failsafe and the incident…

  • Dharma Chameleon

    These are a couple of thoughts about previous episodes and things to come.

    If I have this right, The time shifting began when Ben turned the wheel and the shifting ceased when Locke balanced the wheel. Is it possible that someone turned the wheel again as the bomb went off?

    Also, in regards to presence of Desmond on the plane. Could he be time shifting still with cognition of the other timeline? I think he may still be saving Charlie somehow.

    I read somewhere that the large statue is an Egyptian Goddess, Taweret (God of Fertility). I’m wondering if its destruction is the cause of the gestation issues on the island.

    I’m getting a strong feeling that lost is going to unfold as some tale from Eqyptian mythology with the key players mirroring Osiris – God of fertility, Isis – God of nature, motherhood, and magic, Horus – Son of Isis, Seth – God of chaos, Ra etc..

    There is a strong possibility that I’m playing in Left field.

  • domcruise

    it was good but it still feels like it hasnt really kicked off yet, if ya know what i mean? usually everyone is like WHAT?!? with the big reveals but this season seems a bit more like meh…

  • Maciel

    As I’ve said on the other topic, the changes begin in 1954. If the bomb somehow made the losties never crash on the island, than Faraday never went to the island, they never traveled back to 1954 and the H-Bomb was never buried. It could have detonated somewhere between the dharma initiative foundation and the arrival of Ben on the island, because it was exposed and leaking.

    So, the changes begin on 1954 and not on 1977 and that could explain a lot of things.

    • Nick Stevens

      I’ve been wondering about where the variations began. I think we have a winner.

    • Ament

      Deep. By exploding the bomb in 77′ then the losties could never have visited the island in 54′ since they never crashed. By not visiting in 54′ they never buried the bomb because they weren’t told to do so which may have lead to an even earlier accidental detonation of the bomb killing all who were there in 54′. Eloise, (unborn) Faraday, Whidmore, even Richard. Let’s face it these people have done a lot off island to manipulate issues causing time to stay on track.

      • Ament

        This theory would also explain how we seen Ben off island because he would of perished as a boy in 77′ explosion. The bomb going off in the 50’s would have prevented him from going.

        • Nick Stevens

          No the bomb definitely went off after the DI was established on the island. What Maciel is saying is that everything after 1954 is subject to changes, not that the bomb went off in the 50s. So effectively the bomb sits on the island leaking and dangerous and eventually goes off in, say for example, 1972, which is potentially after the DI came to the island but before Ben ever did.

          • Ament

            I get that, makes sense as we watch the camera zoom into the ocean past the barracks and swingset to a coral covered foot. Could bomb submerge an island though? Something else must of triggered that event.

          • Nick Stevens

            I doubt a bomb would submerge an island in normal circumstances, no. But then this ain’t no ordinary island. Not that I necessarily think that Jughead IS responsible.

    • cap10tripps

      Great observation!

  • Hi,what a nice pants,thanks for sharing.I will get one like that.bill