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Locke is NOT the new leader – Ben always has a plan

By Walter L. Newton,

  Filed under: Lost Theories
  Comments: 50

There is no doubt that most of the fans of Lost want Locke to realize his destiny. But a major theme in Lost is the acceptance of that destiny, without letting ego rule a characters decisions. And Locke has a really big ego. His character, as written on the show, has been dealt some terrible hands in the card game of life. Yet, over and over, his misjudged determination puts him front and center to being the bully’s next victim.

 

I don’t think Locke’s destiny is to be the leader of the Others. He didn’t pass the test that Richard gave him as a child. He was not interested in attending the science camp, and he makes choices too dependant on his feelings, his emotions, instead of considering the cold, hard facts. He is a dreamer, unsuited to responsibility of protecting the Island.

 

Ben is still in control, he is the leader and only leader. Look at what transpired in the season four finale. Ben had one, and only one job to do, save the Island. When Ben asked Richard what was the promise to Kate for their help, Richard responded that they wanted to be able to leave the Island. Who approved that arrangement? Ben. I think Ben knew that the Island still needed the Oceanic 815 survivors for some purpose, but he was willing to let them go, for now.

 

And what was Locke doing at the Orchid’s entrance. Fumbling around trying to find a flower which he could not recognize. Ben didn’t want Locke to enter the Orchid alone. Even if Locke managed to get into the lower complex on his own, he wouldn’t have even been able to locate the restroom, what more move the Island. Christian didn’t tell him how to do it, and Ben certainly wasn’t offering any instructions that meant anything.

 

And when Ben and Locke arrived in the lower bowels of the Orchid station, what happened? Ben gave Locke a movie to watch. It was almost like giving a little kid a Disney video to keep him busy while daddy is fixing the car engine. Meanwhile, Ben continued with his plan to save the Island. Ben’s nonchalant attitude toward the information on the Orchid video tells us that the video had no content that would be helpful to the present mission. Ben tossed Locke a lollipop.

 

 And then the key moment, a leaders test. Keamy arrives, hell bent on stopping Ben and what does Locke do? He wants to sit down with a psychotic killer and talk things out. Ben proceeds to kill Keamy, even after they recognize that Keamy has a dead mans device attached to his arm. When Locke questioned Ben about the fate of the people on the freighter, Ben replies “So.” Remember, Locke couldn’t even bring himself to kill his father, a forecast of Locke inability to take the lead and make life and death decisions.

 

locke.jpg Ben always has a plan, and as we see in the closing scene of the season, Ben is in control. And now he is using the “dead” Locke to get the 815 survivors back. It was almost like Locke gave up his other kidney, and he is now relegated to simply being a prop in Ben’s game. Even Locke’s new alias, Bentham, speaks of his “utilitarian” purpose in Ben’s overall scheme. Ben is still the leader, for now.

 

WLN

From TVFrenzy:

  • Excellent theory/post. I also think Locke doesn’t measure up because he can’t actually see Jacob (who I believe pressed rewind on the tape).

  • sk8rpro

    Great article, excellent points. However, that doesn’t mean Locke’s philosophy is wrong in the end. Regardless of Locke’s character flaws, he still has potential to fulfill a greater purpose. If his corpse is brought back to the Island he might fulfill what he was Destined to do.

  • Charlie’s Ghost

    I agree. Ben always has a plan and will manipulate his way back to ultimate control, no matter the cost.

    Something interesting to ponder is Widmore’s next target. With Ben exiled from the island, Widmore has no reason to go after him. Widmore was after the leader of the island, which was Ben but now is Locke. So did Widmore position his men to follow the O6, knowing that the new leader would show up to persuade them to do something for him? Did Widmore’s cronies kill Locke when he as back for a visit as Jeremy Bentham?

    Either way, I wouldn’t doubt for a second that Ben didn’t necessarily resist Locke becoming the new leader due to knowing that it would take the heat off of himself…i.e. Widmore. This would provide Ben time to go after Widmore for killing Alex. Its starting to make sense, actually.

    “Here’s the island, Locke. Have fun. I’m off to get Widmore and his crew, and when I’m done, I’ll most likely be back for my spot on the throne..” ….or something like that…haha.

  • ErasedSlate

    I think this ties in well with what Koobie said the night of the finale. Ben makes sure that Jack and company leave the island throwing the island out of balance. It needs to both Jack and Locke to maintain equilibrium. This is Ben’s key back to the island.

  • Matt

    Well WLN i guess you haven’t watched the Season 3 finale. All of the Others don’t seem to like Ben. Richard is angry of Ben’s lack of action and leadership. And in the season 4 finale if you watch Richard’s reaction to Ben’s thank you, he doesn’t seem happy to say the least.

  • WLN

    Matt said: “Well WLN i guess you haven’t watched the Season 3 finale. All of the Others don’t seem to like Ben. Richard is angry of Ben’s lack of action and leadership. And in the season 4 finale if you watch Richard’s reaction to Ben’s thank you, he doesn’t seem happy to say the least.”

    Matt. I’m aware of the “preception” that the writers want us to have about Ben, Locke and the Others. But, I haven’t seen any indication that leadership on the Island is a democratic process. It speaks more of a regnal arrangement, with present leadership (the Island, Jacob, Ben, Christian) making decisions and passing on responsibilities.

    And this is only a theory. That’s what makes the writing of Lost so amazing. There is a lot of clever ambiguity woven into the dialog and action.

    Good points.

    WLN

  • texgeekboy.myopenid.com

    I agree with Matt to a large degree. You can be a leader only if the subjects are willing to be led by you. I don’t think the Others want Ben anymore.

    However, it is apparent that Locke is only a placeholder. Walt or Aaron will be the next true leader. I am excluding Ji Yeon as a possibility since there has never been any ‘special’ buzz about her.

  • I think that Locke’s problem when he was a child was that he wasn’t ready to believe in what was required of him. He denied his true nature, and that he is now ready.

    Of course, I’m also convinced that the island has been moved well into the past, and that Dharma’s “hostiles” are lead by none other than John Locke himself. 🙂

  • DM

    This isn’t a “theory.” Ugh.

    Anyway, Ben knows he is going to leave the Island. He doesn’t have to give Locke instructions, because Locke isn’t the man who needs to do the job. Ben is charged with moving the Island, with being exiled, while Locke takes his stead.

    The Natives want new leadership. “Ben always has a plan” is one of the worst mantras of LOST discussions. Ben’s attention turns away from the Island and his battle is with Widmore. Specifically revenge.

  • joop108

    I seem to remember Carlton saying that if we wanted an idea of where the show’s going to read the Bible (or something to that extent). What if John died as some sort of a sacrifice and his return to the island will be his “second coming”

  • Charlie’s Ghost

    I think its been a bit forgotten that Jacob chooses who he speaks to, which is ultimately the person the ‘natives’ follow. Even though Richard obviously had some disagreement with Ben, he still followed, because that’s what Jacob wanted. Richard doesn’t speak to Jacob. This was made apparent during the episode when Locke had to kill his father. BUT, now that Locke can speak to Jacob, there’s no need for Ben….but Ben, being that planner that he is, always has a plan!

    I agree with a couple of you above – Ben knows that the O6 will be required to return, and he knows that he cannot return on his own….as he probably doesn’t know where the island is, himself. But, if he ‘helps’ the O6+Locke get back, then he can tag along and get back himself….taking his spot back at the top.

  • I see Ben as more of an interim manager while the island waits for Locke to fulfill his destiny. I don’t think any of the caretakers are meant to have long life spans though. It has been implied since season one that Aaron is also destined to be caretaker, as he has several things in common with Locke and Ben. All three have a moses/superman-like childhood, it looks like none of them can be raised by their parents or family members. (I realize Ben was raised by his drunk father, but who knows? Maybe he was a bastard child.) They also have a parent die for the Island, which doesn’t bode well for Claire. Claire also appears off the Island in Kates dream, which has been sole territory of deceased island dwellers. Walt also seems a strong candidate as island management.

  • WLN

    joop108 said: “I seem to remember Carlton saying that if we wanted an idea of where the show’s going to read the Bible (or something to that extent). What if John died as some sort of a sacrifice and his return to the island will be his ‘second coming'”

    Joop108. Where as we certainly have some biblical names, and we possibly can find a few biblical archetypes among our characters, I haven’t seen a “mirror” of any biblical stories as of yet.

    The writers have borrowed from many contemporary and clasical sources to create the Lost world. Greek, Egyptian and Far Eastern symbolism abound. For the science, spiritual and social themes, many of the character names reflect scientists and philosophers. And we have historical references that may tie into the mythos of the show. But I don’t feel the Bible is the key to the whole plot arc.

    WLN

  • Ben is not the leader anymore just face it….lol. He still might be in control but that doesn’t mean that he’s still the leader. I think that Jack is supposed to lead the others when he gets back and John will end up being Jacob or like Christan. You made some good points though. Ben is a manipulator and will use the current situation to his advantage. The only good thing i’ve seen him do is move the island, allowing Locke to become the leader of the Others. So i think Locke IS the leader.

  • Se

    Agreed Keith

  • WLN

    Charlie’s Ghost said: “…Ben knows that the O6 will be required to return, and he knows that he cannot return on his own….”

    How do we know that Ben cannot return to the Island? Because he said so. Remember this dialog in TNPLH Part #1. BEN: “I wasn’t being entirely truthful.” LOCKE: “Yeah. When are you ever entirely truthful?”

    So far, we only have Ben’s word on his ability to return or not return to the Island. And in the past, Ben was the one who told John that the leadship of the Others was being passed on to him. The writers of Lost, speaking through Locke, has reminded us that we can’t take Ben’s word for granted.

    WLN

  • MoreVincentPlease

    Something about Locke I don’t really understand. When Richard came to see Locke as a kid, he asked him to pick out some objects. Locke picked out the knife, indicating that he was violent, or a ‘hunter’. Richard was not well pleased about this, it obviously meant that Locke was not ready or going to be the new leader as he was ‘disposed’ to picking violence or something like that.

    BUT, Locke couldn’t kill his own father, so he gets Sawyer to do it and then pretends he did it. But why did Ben want him to kill his father? I thought the point was NOT to be violent (that’s why Richard didn’t like kid Locke picking out the knife). UNLESS getting Sawyer to kill Locke’s father was exactly the point, because it means Locke can plan and manipulate people to do his dirty work for him, just like Ben does. Ben tries not to actually kill anyone, just make others do stuff for him like that (except Keamy I guess but he admitted he lost it).

    So just wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts on the role of violence/killing in being an Other?

  • June bug

    overlooked,
    I think Locke is Jacob, and needs to return to the island.

    The ‘leader’ is some one else on the island still.
    A story of redemption…
    which character left if given Richard’s test would choose the book?

    which character has shed their ego?

    Who did Hugo claim as the Temporary leader on the beach, with much success.. I think Sawyers character is greatly overlooked.

  • themanfromtallahasse

    Hi all
    Just like to run a theory past you all, im from ireland and seen the finale last night on tv (absolutely amazing episode), and what hit me was the possibility that in kates dream with claire, claire wasnt talking about aaron when she said “dont bring him back” she was actually talkin about…………….DUN DUN DAAAAAAA Ben. Dont forget that he was effectivly exiled from the island by jacob when he moved the island. We seen in the last scene that ben is trying to align himself with the O6(who seem destined to return to the island) so that he may also return to the island and take back what was his possibly!!!

  • Jimyy

    DM said:
    This isn’t a “theory.” Ugh.

    Anyway, Ben knows he is going to leave the Island. He doesn’t have to give Locke instructions, because Locke isn’t the man who needs to do the job. Ben is charged with moving the Island, with being exiled, while Locke takes his stead.

    The Natives want new leadership. “Ben always has a plan” is one of the worst mantras of LOST discussions. Ben’s attention turns away from the Island and his battle is with Widmore. Specifically revenge.

    i agree with u 100%… Ben is done, locke is in charge. The only plan on Ben’s mind right now is revenge… plain and simple. Ben and Sayid are taking out all of Widmore’s people, that’s all Ben cares about at the moment. I have a feeling that Locke wasn’t meant to fill Ben’s shoes, but to instead take Jacobs place.

  • ZCAL

    Hurley quoting Dead Charlie “Your not suppose to raise him Jack.” I’m starting to think more and more that “Raise” means raise from the dead. Jack isn’t suppose to raise Locke from the dead.

  • Jack Burton

    Take it easy on Locke there Guy. First of all, he can make life or death decisions. He swiftly through a knife in that lying chick Naomi’s back in an effort to save the island. And saying that he can’t even kill his father, as if killing one’s dad is an easy thing to do, is a crappy thing to say. Yes Locke has a heart, that’s not a bad thing. Trying to Talk to Keamy was the right move in order to save the people on the freighter. It didn’t work but at least he tried.

    As far as the orchid station, ofcourse Locke has questions, we all do. We all wanted to watch that video. But just like always, Ben likes to keep secrets to himself, because he’s a prick with a much bigger ego than Locke. And if Locke wasn’t destined to be the leader of the others or to play a significant role for the island, then why does the island give him so much attention. Making him walk, the visions, etc?

  • JoeZippy

    Has anyone noticed, Ben moves the island on the day the O6 get rescued, around the end of December ’04, and by all appearances gets tossed into the future to October of 2005, with no way back to the island. So if we assume that the technology/ability to time travel is based on the island, how does Ben appear at Locke’s funeral in April of 05?

    My theory is that at some point *before* being banished, Ben has skipped across the space-time continuum and stopped at various points to manipulate events or to set up tools he needs (like the stash of crackers and equipment on the way to the Orchid.)

    I think this is why he was so shocked when Alex was killed, because he literally didn’t see it coming. Somehow he missed it when he was maping out his future moves.

  • WLN

    JoeZippy said: “Has anyone noticed, Ben moves the island on the day the O6 get rescued, around the end of December ’04, and by all appearances gets tossed into the future to October of 2005, with no way back to the island. So if we assume that the technology/ability to time travel is based on the island, how does Ben appear at Locke’s funeral in April of 05?”

    Well, could be that Ben is lying about getting back to the Island. Like I have proposed in my theory above. Ben is still in control. Locke, if anything, is simply a figurehead, with no real power.

    WLN

  • Litemakr

    Locke’s funeral was in 2007, not 2005.

  • steve

    Wait, wasn’t Locke’s funeral a couple of YEARS after the rescue JoeZippy?
    On another note, Hugo asked Ben something about being the leader and Ben said not always. He then implied there were other people( plural ) that also acted as leaders. Maybe a sort of council.

  • Litemakr
  • WLN

    steve said: “Wait, wasn’t Locke’s funeral a couple of YEARS after the rescue JoeZippy?On another note, Hugo asked Ben something about being the leader and Ben said not always. He then implied there were other people( plural ) that also acted as leaders. Maybe a sort of council.”

    Steve, Ben’s comment was possessive, not plural. See transcript below.

    HURLEY: Well, if the Others didn’t wipe out the DHARMA Initiative–
    BEN: They did wipe them out, Hugo, but it wasn’t my decision.
    HURLEY: Then whose was it?
    BEN: Their leader’s.
    HURLEY:But I thought you were their leader.
    BEN: Not always.

    WLN

  • MoreVincentPlease

    Jack Burton:
    I’m not insulting Locke, I’m just asking why he couldn’t do it. Seeing as how he really really wanted to find out the secrets of the island. And Ben said if he did it he’d tell him. Or something like that.

  • “I still think Locke will end up becoming/already is Jacob.
    The reason why things went apesh!t in the cabin the first time is the same reason why Halliwax freaked out about bunny #15 touching itself in this video.”

    I love that. Why else would Jacob not show himself to Locke? It’s either that Jacob is Locke and doesn’t want him to know or that the writers had no idea how to introduce a totally new character as Jacob and choose Christian to speak for him instead…

  • steve

    TY WLN, I thought it was plural possesive. Is that the lostpedia transcript or the ACTUAL show transcript? We all know lostpedia is NOT cannon. Are their transcripts? Maybe whomever produced the transcript for lostpedia missed that one. It is an honest mistake, leader’s or leaders’.
    In any case, that implies there was at least one other person making decisions around the time of the purge. We know Ben stole the island from Widmore “like a rat”. So if the person who ordered the purge was a leader and Ben stole the island from Widmore, something isn’t adding up?
    There must be someone else? I don’t think it is Jacob either because Ben would have said Jacob. He has never been shy about telling people about Jacob.

    I am also curious as to the 2 purple sky events we have seen. I assume the wheel was pre-Dharma and the fail-safe key in the hatch was a Dharma fail-safe. When both were turned the same result was given to the viewers, the “purple sky event.” Was that implying when Desmond turned the fail-safe, he too moved the island as Ben did by turning the FDW?

  • WLN

    steve said: “TY WLN, I thought it was plural possesive.”

    Yes, the transcript is from Lostpedia, but in context with Hurley’s response “But I thought you were their leader,” it appears that the subject of this verbal exchange is a single leader.

    It is interesting that you brought up the two “purple sky” events. This evening I was going over some ideas for future postings and I was wondering about what appears to be TWO different sources of some sort of “power” on the Island. The magnetic anomaly justaposed at the Swan and the “negatively charged exotic matter” at the Orchid.

    These substances are not the same, and they seem to produce two different kinds of time travel. In the case of Desmond and the Swan, he begins to exist in two different places along a timeline, connected by his consciousness. The effect of the wheel underneath the Orchid effects a move of the Island into the future, a complete physical time travel.

    I can’t really get a handle on these plot points. It would seem that these two methods of time travel confuses the issue more than explains the Islands ability to time travel.

    Any thoughts?

    WLN

  • JoeZippy

    ahh, damn. You’re right. it was 2007.

  • WLN

    JoeZippy said: “ahh, damn. You’re right. it was 2007. ”

    Yes, Litemakr was right, it was 2007. Since the producers said that that obituary prop had mistakes in it, I wish they would at least clarify which parts of it were wrong. I have noticed a lot of misquotes (including my own) in referencing the dates.

    WLN

  • If you believe that this isn’t all part of Ben’s plan, you haven’t been paying very close attention. I think that the only thing that’s happened so far that ISN’T part of Ben’s plan is when Keamy murdered his daughter (who we still don’t know if it’s actually his daughter or not). But, even then, he used that to his advantage, getting Locke to follow his every whim. The only reason Locke was left in charge is because Ben wanted him to be there. Yes, the Others on the island had lost a bit of faith in Ben because Locke saw a cabin in the woods, but that doesn’t mean that Locke should be the de facto leader. What does Ben want more than anything else? To be on the island. To be in charge of the island, it would seem. How do we not know that Ben getting off the island isn’t all part of his plan to come storming back and rescue the Others, knowing that Locke would cock it all up while he was away?

  • WLN

    As I read the responses to my article above, I noticed that a lot of people propose that Jacob has picked Locke as the new leader, or Jacob/Locke may be the same person in a different timeline.

    Remember, in “The Man Behind The Curtain,” Locke could not see Jacob. In the most, he heard a voice say “help me” in the cabin. And Locke even questioned if Ben could see Jacob. Locke was convinced that there was no Jacob and Ben was lying. And during Locke’s second visit to the cabin, he only saw Christian. In the least, Ben nor Locke are meant to see him, and Ben is not being truthful about his connection to Jacob. Is Ben trying to hold on to his position by lying to everyone?

    Hmmm… Hurley saw someone in the cabin?

    WLN

  • ErasedSlate

    If the perspective of the camera was indeed Locke’s perspective, then Locke did see Jacob. He just didn’t get a very good look at him.

  • WLN

    ErasedSlate said: “If the perspective of the camera was indeed Locke’s perspective, then Locke did see Jacob. He just didn’t get a very good look at him.”

    I don’t think so… you wanna fight? 🙂

    There is no indication that Locke saw Jacob in that scene. The quick glimpse was for the audiences benefit. A piece of business a little later in that episode helps confirm this.

    “Upon arrival at the mass grave, Ben shot Locke. Locke asked him why he had shot him, to which Ben replied, ‘Because you heard him’, referring to Jacob”

    WLN

  • ForgivenTheWarlord

    WLN- “Upon arrival at the mass grave, Ben shot Locke. Locke asked him why he had shot him, to which Ben replied, ‘Because you heard him’, referring to Jacob”

    The fact that Locke can hear Jacob and Ben can’t is what makes me think that Locke is the leader. It seems like that’s who they were looking for… the guy who can hear Jacob. Ben has pretended to be that guy for a while, but The Others seem to have cuaght on since Ben got cancer.

    I think that the scene with Ben choosing the knife was a parrallel to the one with the teacher… he’s supposed to have a destiny, but he wanted the knife (adventure) instead.

    Now, he’s choosing his destiny. I’m not too concerned about him dying because they are taking his body back tot he island where I fully expect him to pull a Christian Sheppard and be back up wandering around.

  • Bill

    Despite what online Lost fans think, I’ve always believed that Jack was more important than Locke. Look how Ben speaks to Jack, and compare it to the outright disregard he shows the other 815 survivors. Especially Locke. He is careful when he speaks to Jack. He couldn’t care less what he says to Locke. In fact he summed it up best when he said that although Locke somehow had a communion with the island, Locke also had no idea what he was talking about. Locke was a horrible leader because he never was suppose to be the leader. Jack is, and always will be. It was Jack who was willing to give up Sayid, Bernard and Jin back when he thought Ben’s men were going to kill them ( He also promised to kill Tom when he was done securing rescue.) Locke also has innocent blood on his hands. Jack’s moves were about sacrifice and retribution. Locke’s moves were naive, and childlike. He threats the island like this new town he got for christmas. ( It is safe to say that Naomi wasn’t part of the same group that Keamy was. And poor Boone found the wrong island zealot to have a crush on.) Being heeled on the island doesn’t account for being important. Afterall, isn’t Rose just background nose. Great read.

  • SquallCentra

    Locke does show some attributes of a leader, he’s done so throughout his journey on the island. He was one that gave guidance to Charlie dealing with his drug problem, fought with Jack during earlier seasons for leadership of the survivors, and thoughout his flashbacks has shown he can make life-and-death decisions.

    Jacob, whomever he is whether the consciousness of the island or something else, has chosen Locke for “something.” Ben made the decision to place him as leader in Ben’s absence, though I believe Ben is now trying to return to the island using to Oceanic 06. So really, as far as my bad memory goes, there’s no evidence that the “island” had chosen Locke as the new leader, but the island had been repeatedly telling Locke that he had work to do, he had a purpose.

    Which brings to mind Michael, whom the island also told that he had work to do but that was to keep the boat from blowing up. He never made it to the island. And for what purpose was the boat to not blow up? Well, who was on the boat? Jack, the undeniable leader of the people at this time and throughout his time on the island. He denies the island’s mysteries and doesn’t want anything to do with the island…. yet, who is that wants to return so badly? Jack. So theory is that Jack is the destined leader of the island and the others. Locke’s purpose may lie elsewhere. Locke’s purpose may of simply been to get Jack to believe…

  • WLN

    SquallCentra said: “Locke’s purpose may of simply been to get Jack to believe…”

    And you have totally understood what I was trying to suggest in my theory. I should have been a little clearer in my assessment of Locke. I wasn’t suggesting that he was worthless, only that he is not the person that needs to lead the Island.

    And that’s assuming on our part that the Island is looking for a “new” leader. In reality, we do not yet know what the Island wants, or what the Island is, or what is going on. We can only surmise by the storyline so far.

    The whole of this story has been based on testing, failing, redeeming and changing purposes. At one time (pick a time, past, present or future), Locke may have been considered as a possible leader of the Island. But we have seen over 4 years, that these designs can change in an instant.

    WLN

  • Aaron

    Ben got cancer on the Island. He had a tumor on his spine and thats why he needed Jack. People dont get sick on the island so clearly Ben did something to piss the island off just like Jack did by calling the freighter then all of a sudden the dudes appendix goes trippy . Ben may always have a plan but the Island has a plan of its own regardless of what Ben wants

  • Death Metal Donald

    I’m not sure why all this “leader” stuff is really relevant. I seriously don’t care who is in “control” or who is “leading” the Natives. Why do they need to be led in the first place and where was the leadership through the entire 4th season? seemed like they were doing fine without any. if anything, they did a fine job liberating the bozo’s from Keemy. did Ben really need to get caught on purpose? why the long winded instructions to John, only to be thwarted by him playing dumb until Ben got back? seems like a weakly written strategy to unfold drama.

    and if we’re really to get philosophical with this show where Time and Space are being challenged as constructs of the human mind (along with fate and phony course correcting. you cant challenge ‘time’ if linear destiny always comes to fruition. that takes timelessness, chance and chaos out of the equation.), why not leadership also? leadership, or lack of leadership, in other cultures is highly different from whats being displayed on this show. i guess a show that blurs the line between anthropology and a hammer crushing archaeology is more interested in sci-fi theory (aka scien-tainment) than actual ‘science’. yet scien-tainment sells, even if its completely off base.

  • steve

    WLN: I can’t really get a handle on these plot points. It would seem that these two methods of time travel confuses the issue more than explains the Islands ability to time travel.

    That makes two of us. I am not much of a science major, but are they 2 different types of substances? What if Dharma found a way to “harness” the exotic matter and turn it into some type of electromagnetism? Probably not possible.

    They do appear to be two different types of time travel, if we are assuming the island traveled to the future, which I expect is correct.

  • lostinvegas

    When you talk about Jack’s reluctance to accept anything about the island, it always brings me back to a movie, which was also a book, called Lost Horizons. A plane crashes and people are taken to a paradisical refuge in the middle of the frozen Himalayas. The main character Robert Conway did not want to accept his destiny in Shangri-La, (a place where people live to very old ages and there is no disease and it’s hidden away to the rest of the world)which was to become the new leader and ends up leaving. The main point is he does everything at all costs to get back. From the beginning of Lost to now, Lost Horizons always ends up coming back into my mind.

  • pastrynurse

    Jack is Jacob. Just not yet.

  • BucK

    I think Locke is right where he wants to be! Yes, I said it right where he wants be; in a coffin. Let me explain…

    Each leader, even those who cam before Ben inched further to the cause of the island. The cause is reflected in the Valenzetti equation. Change the numbers and save mankind. The island is the staging point for that event. Which is why Ben needed to keep it out of the hands of those who would use for their own personal gain (i.e. Widmore). But Ben was too selfish / ruthless in doing so. Not mention the fact that now Ben is too distracted in the fact that Widmore had his daughter killed. That why Ben killed Keamy. Not because he held his cool and made the decision of a leader. But because he is emotionally involved. He is now too distracted which is why Jacob forsaken Ben to moving the island and thus causing Ben to be exiled.

    (By the way, Locke was the one who held his cool when he confronted Keamy, because he knew other lives were at stake. Ben simply didn’t care.)

    Enter John Locke. This is where my Locke/Obi Wan theory comes into play. Locke listens to the island just as Ben did. But Locke is more selfless in his approach. Ben always has a plan but it’s only a plan that Jacob could devise. When Ben is cranking that wheel to move the island look at his expression. He is truly sad. Now I’m not saying Jacob tells Ben how to execute the plan, I think Ben finds the means himself, but the end result is Jacobs. Locke was chosen because he is different from Ben. He can achieve what Ben does with a much less darker side. This is what is needed to change coarse of destiny as mentioned in the Hanso orientation film to change the numbers in the Valenzetti equation. Locke seen the light in season one when he was in the jungle and that was a reflection of himself.

    I remember the choice Locke needed to make when Richard came to see him as a child. He should have chosen The Book of Laws. But he wasn’t ready at that time, so he chose what he would become instead, a hunters knife. But what Richard didn’t even know is that the knife he chose would help him find his way. And find his way he did. I recall a conversation Locke had with Mr. Echo in the hatch when Echo brought Locke the rest of the orientation film held in a book. Echo told him a biblical story of a Leader who’s Kingdom and Temple was in ruins. The people were in disarray. But the King rebuilt the Temple with a book. And that book was The Book of Laws.

    I always wondered why Echo told Locke that story? Just to give him the missing piece of an orientation video? I think not. I think Locke’s purpose on the island is much greater than what we seen from him thus far. Maybe even greater then that of a “Leader”. I believe Locke may have sacrificed himself for the Greater Good. Another popular Lost theme. And once he returns to the island, much like Obi Wan, he will be come more powerful than ever before!

  • clueless1der

    I’ll be honest… I’m a little too lazy to go through all these comments.
    But in case it hasn’t been mentioned, I believe that Locke was more of
    a test for Ben. Would Ben make the ultimate sacrifice to save the Island? Yes…. to the extent that he was removed from the Island. Will he be allowed back after Locke’s “leadership” f*cked everything up? Absolutely.

    Bring on Season 5!

  • Quinn

    Who else thinks that Ben and Locke are brothers, or atleast half brothers? Both their mothers are named “Emily”. Locke was born 6 months premature, his mom survived the birth, Ben was born 7 months premature and his mother died in childbirth. Women can have a history of premie births. Maybe years after she gave birth to Locke and gave him up for adoption, maybe she gave birth to Ben and this time died in childbirth?