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LOST Theory: How the Statue Broke

By nato64,

  Filed under: Lost Mythos, Lost Theories
  Comments: 111

foot-statueHey all, nato64 here, back with another theory regaurding last episode’s inclusion of the infamous four-toed statue. I have a theory as to the exact event that caused the statue to crumble, leaving only the feet for Sayid, Sun, and Jin to look upon.

In the Season 2 finale,  Sayid says he doesn’t know what bothers him more, where the rest of the statue went or that it has four toes. Us fans have been focusing intensely on the fact that it only has four toes, most of us assuming that time did the statue in.

In the last episode, Locke turned the wheel in, oh, let’s just call it 1,000 B.C. The well disappeared but the underground chamber with the frozen donkey wheel did not. Initially, this was very puzzling to me. Then I got to thinking how the chamber almost has to exist out of time. That way, even though there was no foreseeable entrance to the chamber in 1,000 B.C., Locke still existed there. Even Christian came down to say a few words. Technically, he won’t be born for almost 3,000 years. Jacob, and the Chamber, must exist out of time. Not only that, Locke was transported across the world in space and 3,000 years in time. Locke was sent to where the island wanted him to be, 2007.

Now, after Locke turned the wheel,  the rest of the Losties said that it “felt different,” “like an earthquake.” Earthquake… that sounds like something that could bring a gigantic statue to it’s toes, no?

It’s safe to deduce that the island has been flashing the characters around so far this season, not necessarily moving the island in time. Except, this time is different. Locke turned the wheel and did exactly what Ben did in the Season 4 finale. He moved the island. What if Locke turning the wheel was the first time the island ever moved, physically? I’ve heard a few people talk about how the island is the lost city of Atlantis, a civilization that contributed to Egyptian’s ancient culture. To quote Wikipedia…

The island was… sunk by an earthquake and became an impassable mud shoal, inhibiting travel to any part of the ocean. The Egyptians, Plato asserted, described Atlantis as an island comprising mostly mountains in the northern portions and along the shore, and encompassing a great plain

Sound awesomely familiar? Discuss.

From TVFrenzy:

  • THinIL

    A sound theory, but its a little too early to speculate, considering that of the 5.5 seasons we’ve only seen about 30 seconds of this statue.

    The viewers need one entire episode where its just Chang and Faraday having a picnic, sipping on some Dharma Merlot, discussing everything they know about time travel as it relates to Lost. I’m hungry for some clear cut logic on this show!

    • Haha I completely agree. I don’t know if you watch Battlestar Galactica or not, but like 3 episodes ago, all the episode was one of the characters suddenly remembering EVERYTHING. All of the show’s mythology. All he did was explain how everything came to pass for 40 minutes. It probably sounds like a boring episode. It was AWESOME. The answers to all the mythological questions I had with the show were more than satisfying.

      A picnic with Change, Faraday, and Alpert wouldn’t disappoint.

      • *Chang

        My bad. My hands try to type too fast :p

  • ax

    Wow, very nicely spotted there Doc.

  • Charlie’s Ghost

    After they said that it ‘felt like an earthquake’ did they see the whole statue…so how could it be destroyed when they see it immediately after saying that?

    In staring at the pic along with your post, it got me thinking of a theory…

    …Remember Dan asked Ellie if there was access to concrete? Remember that he strongly suggested that they bury it in concrete? Do you know how that remaining foot in the pic above resembles concrete? (see where this is going?) Maybe the bomb was buried in the statue that they created?? Probably would be near impossible to do, but thought I’d throw it out there.

    • The order of events went like this:

      1) Locke goes down in well
      2) Regular time-jumping flash that moved our Losties to 1,000 B.C.
      3) Sawyer and crew see full-size statue
      4) Locke corrects wheel’s axis and turns it (still 1,000 B.C.)
      5) The Losties end up in 1970s. Flashes end.

      To the people in 1,000 B.C., all they would feel was #4. An earthquake and large flash, ending up with the island moved.

    • steve d

      hey, good theory about the concrete, but i think the bomb was burried underneath the swan. Reason i think this? remember how jack and sayid were looking around underneath the swan and jack asked sayid if he’d ever seen this much concrete and he said not since chernobyl? obviously chernobyl was the nuclear disaster, worked then, and looks like the concrete worked this time under the swan

  • I like this…I’ve heard rumblings about the use of the word “earthquake” to describe the final flash, but none that posited that it was the first Island Move.
    This also makes sense in that the wheel, while Locke was in the Timeless Pocket, was completely sealed off…so it’s incredibly likely that Locke took the Island’s virginity.

    • monkeyface

      i agree, i like this theory.

      lmao @ locke/island virginty….but, you could be on to something.

    • jessea

      “rumblings”….”earthquake”….nice…
      and the theory rocks too…

      (it ROCKS, get it?)

  • It just dawned on me when you said “outside of time” do you think this is what Daniel labeled as “imaginary time” in his notebook?

  • Beena

    The chamber doesn’t seem to exist outside of it’s “space”, however. It always seems to occupy the same location in spite of the other changes to the physical landscape that occur over different times.
    You have to wonder who put the wheel there to begin with, and for what purpose had they used it. And if the same person or people who made the wheel are the same people who made Old Four Toes.
    I’ve always sort of leaned toward the Atlantis theory applying to LOST. Thought the statue might actually be Hermanubis, which is a combination of Anubis with Hermes…a combination of Egyptian/Greek origins. A lot of people (archeologists) believe that Atlantis was actually this one Greek Island largely destroyed by a volcano. There seems to be some impressive evidence to support it.

  • Beena

    Also, it’s kind of funny how Sawyer nicknamed Faraday “Plato” for anyone who knows the history of Plato as it pertains to Atlantis.

    • dolce

      That is interesting…

    • Great point!

  • hurleyrules

    I was with ya til the earthquake reference, When they said it felt like an earthquake i took it more to mean not so much a land earthquake but just that the pain it caused them in their heads as they jumped seemed like an earthquake compared to the rest of the jumps. Good theory but i just dont think there was a real physical earthquake.

    • freakazoid

      If the “earthquake” was so intense it crumbled such a prominent concrecte, sorry, possibly cocrete statue….why were all of the old landmarks still undaunted, meaning no crack in the earth, no toppled trees… i mean it did happen just then right???

  • I think one thing to think about to – is the 4 toe statue the same as the Anubis statue we saw in “LaFleur”? There could be more than one statue on the Island.

    That said, this is a great application of the earthquake line and I really like this theory.

    • Desi’s Brother

      For God’s Sake I’m sick of hearing Anubis like this is a fact! It is not Anubis!

      • Crazy Bearded Jack

        Do you feel better for posting that? If I think the statue is Anubis, what’s the harm? I’m not just saying it – the statue is holding anhks, and the anhk was a central image in “LaFleur.” Also, the heiroglyphs in The Swan directly translate to “Underworld” – that’s straight from Damon. Anubis is the Gatekeeper of the Underworld. How fitting that the gatekeeper be guarding the beach to the Island.
        Rather than make a worthless post complaining, why not offer evidence why you think the statue is NOT Anubis?

        • elijahmoon

          99999999999 out of 1000 Egyptian gods are depicted holding ankhs. What does the hydra translate too? or the looking glass? or the… you get my point. Also, can you offer some evidence that the statue is holding two ankhs? I mean for all I saw he could have been holding the leashes to two dogs… [being facetious here] but seriously we didnt get a great look at them and of all the Egyptian gods Ive seen I have not seen a SINGLE ONE dual wielding ankhs. Always a single ankh or an ankh and flail or something else. [rod or whatever] Additionally It sounds like the jist of your post was to “complain” about his “complaining” so… arent you doing the same thing as him? complaining? Im not complaining LOL just pointing that out. That is all [for now]

          Personally I think the whole earthquake did the statue in is just a little too simple and would really be a huge letdown to what is supposed to be a key climatic point of this ENTIRE plot. Also the Atlantis theory is no new spin. All in all this entire blog offers nothing new or of interest to me. that is all. [for real this time]

          • Martek

            elijahmoon says:

            > … and of all the Egyptian gods Ive seen I have not seen a SINGLE ONE dual wielding ankhs. Always a single ankh or an ankh and flail or something else. [rod or whatever] …

            Have you seen this image? (from Nikki Stafford’s blog Nik at Nite [http://nikkistafford.blogspot.com/2009/03/lost-508-that-statue.html])

            http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_xzgXUKTDnp8/SbBs5djClMI/AAAAAAAACgU/TTV-Ns8oqc4/s1600-h/RIMG0843.jpg

            It is of Taweret and appears to be holding two ankh-like items.

            Martek

        • freakazoid

          I think the statue is Richard Alpert? Well…..maybe.

  • Beena

    I found this really interesting page online about Atlantis theories. The second paragraph is particularly interesting about shock waves.There’s even at the bottom of the page a vague mention of Egyptian plagues and pillar clouds (think smoke monster, and the illness Rousseau mentioned) It (this web page) definately makes me think of LOST and this post.

    http://www.answers.com/topic/santorini-and-atlantis

    • acards

      Yeah i like the second paragraph. The part with the shockwaves turniong over the lanterns made me think of the record skipping, not being on the right song.

    • SawyerFan94

      If you’re basing your Atlantis theory on this website it says that Atlantis was in the Atlantic Ocean. We’ve found that the island is in the Pacific, is it not? Or have I missed something. Not saying it couldn’t be Atlantis…just saying.

      • Pellaeon

        There’s every chance that the island moves in space as well as time. There is also more than one “Lost Civilization” theory out there. Look up the myth of Lemuria, this island was supposedly located in the pacific.

        Also, instead of 1000 BC it would likely have been 9000 BC (this is the date that Plato originally gave for Atlantis’ dissappearance). That is assuming that the earthquake that toppled the statue is the same earthquake credited with wiping out Atlantis. It also makes me think about the image from end of Season four when the O6 see the island vanish. To any ancient observers witnessing this phenomenon it could easily have been interpreted as an island “sinking beneath the waves”.

        What if Lost’s Island is Atlantis AND Lemuria, given different names by those who stumbled over it throughout the ages and subsequently mythologized as different civilizations.

        I might be clutching at straws here, but to support my moving through space theory let me suggest that the Ajira flight flew to Guam, not Sydney. Sure, it is still a flight over the Pacific, but not the same flight path. The island could simply have shifted only a small distance during it’s most recent shift by Benjamin.
        The earthquake causing, statue toppling original shift may have been a more drastic shift that sent the island all the way to the other end of the earth.

        • elijahmoon

          now that is interesting. I saved the page Beena mentioned to check out later.

  • I think the earthquake theory is great! Well done nato. And Locke being the first ever to turn the wheel is good, but someone would have had to put the wheel there for Locke to turn. What I was wondering is what Sayid was wondering, what happened to the rest of the statue, after it fell? Any Ideas?

  • Good theory nato. And it really leads into a theory I have: Locke turned the wheel BEFORE Ben turned it.
    We don’t know what year it was when Locke turned the wheel (altho he didn’t really “turn” it, so much as he put it back on track). And now that we’ve seen the statue during same the time in which Locke turneds it, we KNOW he turned the wheel before* Ben turned it (in 2005 or whatever).

    * = That is assuming the wheel changed with the island each time it flashed. So maybe the wheel was off its axis, in say 1000BC, then Locke put it back on track, then Ben turned the wheel 3000 years later, in 2005. I’m just throwing these years out there like nato; they aren’t necessarily historically accurate or anything haha. Before we saw the statue in 5×08, I was thinking it was like late 1970s or 80s….about the time when a certain “incident” occured (which I believe is related to Widmore getting “banished” from the island).
    I also realize it’s possible the wheel remained in the same state during each flash….which would make my ideas moot.

    Apologies for the mino thread-jack nato!
    PK

    • Beena

      What you wrote made me think of something about Charles Widmore. Maybe he turned the wheel for some reason, and couldn’t get back to the island because he couldn’t find it after that (so in that sense, he was banished). We know he knew the exit point, and that he had the camera set up there. Could it be, that he knew where that was, because he had ended up there before himself when he turned the wheel?

      • That is what I assumed since 507 actually, that he turned the wheel and thus knew where the exit is.

        • Beena

          I think I must’ve been bloody reeling over some other thing on LOST and entirely missed something like that before coming here! Your original post has been very thought provoking!

      • freakazoid

        That is a great theory i also support, but why is ben allowed back? Why is locke allowed back? Certainly Widmore could find Mrs. fereday, the first time we saw her was when desmond was living life over again, and buying a ring for Penny in london, where Charlie, and Widmore would have been at that same time. certainly he could have assertained her wherabouts and pinpointed a guesstamation on the island. What can’t this dude widmore do?

    • freakazoid

      You all are saying locke was transported to 1000 bc as if it were a certainty. The wheel room may not be in “time” at all. That means it may as well have been 10,000 ad. Let’s not forget that nothing in the show lost is ” as it seems”. I mean this theory is being based on a quick still frame, that is blury at best, of what seems to be an egyptian statue holding ankhs below its’ waist. Stargate comes to mind. Perhaps this statue has ony been seen in the very, very distant future after human evolution has managed to rid us of our unneeded appendage, the almighty toe!!!

  • cap10tripps

    I feel fairly certain at this point that we are watching an island that has been described throughout history as Atlantis. I also feel like this is what the stories of Eden and Shambala are based on. However, I do feel like this will just be part of the equation. Darlton would never just get to the last couple of episodes of such a landmark series and say, “guess what everyone, it’s Atlantis.” There will be so much more to the (Valenzetti) equation…

    • elijahmoon

      except for eden is entirely landlocked not an island at all

      • cap10tripps

        I don’t think anything would ever be explained as a literal interpretation from the bible, just what the story was based on…

        • elijahmoon

          I would. Which is exactly why I responded and you know that…. But if we apply your p.o.v.to everything you could have just said this is what the stories of king david, sodom and gomorrah the alter of incense, the bird, the airplane or hell just pick any random f***ing thing and inject it into any conversation because noting is literal and its all subjective to your perception LMAO its like some kind of fantasy world. COOL!
          So did you mean Shambala or did you mean some other not literal thing that is NOTHING like an island? Kinda like Eden is NOTHING like an island which was my point. Dont turn this into a who believes what. Just admit your Eden example was a poor one [example] [I mean that literally] literally. I also mean literally literally literally OMG this never ends because I have declare what I mean to be literal or not.. literally never mind… this post was fun… literally… 🙂

          • cap10tripps

            Daaamn. Breathe in, then out. Relaxabate. Sorry for ruining your day holmes.

            Again, it’s obvious over the years that tptb have used religion, science, and miscelaneous works of fiction and philosophy. The whole basis of my theory of the island is based on the Jesus myth that is based on stars in the sky (not so literal). That is, they are explaining some big questions like gods and where our stories of faith come from. Of course there’s always a scientific notion to it, but I’m not saying it’s anything you could configure it to be in a non-literal way. I’m just saying the subjects they’ve not so subtly hinted at (Shambala playing in the VW for example) are being portrayed with a writer’s/producer’s interpretation…

        • freakazoid

          How about the biblical elements that are real. The name Jacob, did you check out the tree behind mr. eccho before his brother came to him asking him to repent, and then ole smokey did him in?? Looked a lot like the interpretation of the tree of life to me. The number 316, pertains to a certain bible passage. What about the impending war that has recently been said to be looming? is it a war of heaven and hell, revelations, perhaps this is purgatory. that is quite an old theory but remains quite consistent with all the biblical anograms lost has given us. on a side note the darhma symbols’ middle anogram is the heiroglyph for the sun boat which directly relates to rah, the sun god. man I get lost in all the probabilities, lol

  • cap10tripps

    Btw, great theory. Makes a lot of sense…

  • horselover

    I like the theory a lot. The “earthquake” they felt seems to link perfectly with the island disappearing the way we saw in the season finale. The fact that this occurred to a prehistoric version of the island hadn’t occurred to me. Interesting.
    I would say though that the wheel doesn’t quite exist “out of time.” I’ve heard that phrase tossed around and frankly, I’m not sure it means anything. Does that mean it’s always existed? Is the fourth dimension of reality irrelevant to its existence, and if so, what the hell does that mean? I think it has merely existed for a very long time. Most attempts at realistic time travel theory say that one can only travel back in time as far as time travel, or the mechanism used for time travel has existed.
    This would explain why the wheel seemed to be anywhere they flashed to: they could only flash to times at which the wheel existed.

    • I completely agree that it doesn’t make sense that something exits “out of time”. What about 10 seconds after the big bang? Was there still a chamber? What makes LESS sense to me is how a chamber was built with no entrance to it. You know? The well would seem like the oldest, most rudimentary method of entrance to an underground wheel-chamber. I can’t imagine a more ancient method of going underground to build a time-altering wheel chamber. (Man, if someone told me I’d be saying a sentence like that a few years ago with a straight face… lol)

      • Zonker

        Yes, there is something wonky in the timeline of the frozen donkey wheel. It and Christian and Locke, Sawyer, Juliet, etc. (& including the show’s viewers!) seem to be moving along one time axis, while Richard, the statue, the well, the rest of the island, etc. seem to be moving on a traditional, linear time axis.

        Consider:
        AD 2005: Christian tells Locke to move the island
        AD 2005: Instead, Ben moves the island. O6 leave. Flashes begin.
        BC 1000: At the wheel, Locke & Christian speak about the mistake(s) that occured in 2005.
        BC 1000: Locke fixes the wheel, presumably left off its axis from Ben’s action in 2005.
        AD 1974: Flashes stop.

        And… it wouldn’t be the first time a hidden island locale had one absurdly difficult entrance and then an entirely mundane 2nd entrance. Remember the mysterious Hatch and then the Swan’s station’s “back door” that no one happened to notice? The frozen donkey wheel was probably originally accessed via a cavern passage.

        • Beena

          I like your timeline reconstruction. I would also add the times at the exit point for anyone turning the wheel. Curiously enough, though the islanders are caught up in all the flashes, the person turning the wheel exits into still another time (and place) without the flashes. I’m trying to remember what the date supposedly was when Ben turned the wheel, compared to the date he wound up at the exit point. Remember he asked the woman what the date was?
          But with Locke, it was even more bizarre. Because he turned the wheel centuries in the past, and then arrived at the exit point not only back to his present time, but about 3 years ahead from the date of the plane crash.

      • Beena

        We’re really looking at three different things moving through time:
        The island, the chamber, and the people. All of these have a natural time line that is undistorted originally. At some point, the island was formed. At some time, the chamber with the wheel was built, and at some point, the people were born. All of these would age naturally, moving through time in a natural progression.
        Trying to figure out what exactly is moving through time unnaturally, is the puzzle Faraday was stumped about…is it the island, or the people doing the time travel? Because we saw the island vanish, it would suggest to me that the island traveled in time. And the question was “When is the island” according to Eloise. But also, only some of the people on the island and in its proximity seem to be traveling through different time periods while others seem to be inhabiting the natural time line unaware.
        The wheel itself, if it was on the island when the island moved through time, also moved through time. We know it didn’t go away, even though things around it changed. This doesn’t suggest to me, however, that it was always there and exists out of time. It still has a natural time line, as to when it was built. I have to think that horselover is right about the mechanism used for time travel only being able to transport travelers to times in which the mechanism existed. And evidently, the mechanism has been around for a long time.

        • elijahmoon

          I think trying to explain time travel would be like trying to explain something thats impossible or doesn’t exist… that reminds me. it doesn’t. We all sound very intelligent tho saying such grandiose words as linear, axis and donkey wheel even… lol

  • THinIL

    Just pointing out two things:
    1. Everyone has posted great comments to this theory.
    2. Unfortunately, logic and rules can’t be applied to something that doesn’t exist yet in reality (ie, real time travel). And since Lost is being written by a small handful of people, its likely they will not have enough time (pun intended) to explain everything flawlessly and scientifically.

  • Thor

    Great theory!

    But still, if Locke was the first one to move the island, why would anyone build a donkey-wheel like that and not use it (or try it out)? I mean, if we agree that Locke was the very first one, then those who built it didn’t use it. That is, if we also agree that the donkey-wheel’s existence on the island in 1000 BC had nothing to do with our friends’ time-traveling.

    One solution to this would be if the cave (or at least the donkey-wheel inside it) was brought with them through time, just like all the other things that happens to time-travel with you if you’re in contact with them (like the rope and the guns). If this is correct, then Locke is perhaps not the first one to use the donkey-wheel, but he’s the first on to use it as far back as 1000 BC. Further, this would explain why the donkey-wheel has (aparantly) always been on the island.

    The third solution is that the donkey-wheel exists outside of time, which is just silly. But it could be true, ’cause I’m not a doctor (nor scientist) and wouldnæt know..

    • El Yerbero

      Or it could be that Locke was the first one to turn the wheel SINCE the statue was built. . . but not the first one to EVER turn the wheel. . .

  • TWR

    #1 Where are you getting this 1000BC date from? That would be assuming that the stature is Egyptian and that it would have to have been built at the same time Egyptian society was thriving.

    #2 For some reason they filmed two different scenes with Locke turning that wheel. One from two weeks ago w/ Christian Shepard and one from last week sans Christian Shepard. I don’t know what to make of that.

    #3 I think the comment “it felt like an earthquake” was just a figure of speech and was not implying the island shook or anything like that.

    • A.G.Wooding

      Someone further up used 1000BC as an example and people have kept using it. It is not an exact date.

  • Did anyone notice the donkey wheel wasn’t frozen when Locke turned it?
    Here’s what I think happened, or will happen.
    1. Locke turns the ancient wheel in a small cave; did you notice the area was a lot smaller then when Ben was there?
    3. Ben turns the frozen wheel, how does he know it’s frozen?
    2. Ben gets Widmore to turn the wheel, and then he freeze’s it! Just a guess, but it would make sense, right?

  • Wintermute

    I am more interested in the fact that Christian was present when Locke repaired/turned the wheel.

    There is debate about the time frame, but whether it was 1000 BC or 1800 AD or whatever, the fact is they were absolutely in the past, as evidenced by a whole statue rather than just part of one. With that being said, how is it that Christian is there? Do ghosts/spirits/zombies travel time with the flashes as well? This was not a previous or past version of Christian. It was our “present” version of Christian, because he talked about events in his and Locke’s relative “past” (ie – “I told you (Locke) to turn the wheeel?).

    • Ok, let’s discuss Christian, I can do that. I guess my idea is frozen haha.
      TWR had a good comment #2 the sans Christian turning of the wheel. Why are we seeing it without him? Do you really need someone to tell you to turn something that looks like a wheel? Maybe Locke has an imaginary friend, Locke’s mind traveled with him, so it must be all in his head. Oh, well worth a try.

      • Thor

        I thought the importance of Christian in that scene was to tell us that Ben wasn’t supposed to use the wheel earlier, and it was Locke’s task all along.

        It has always been a question whether the ghosts are ghosts or just psychic phenomena. Some of the ghosts, it’s been said by the writers, were actually the smoke-monster! But if Christian is a ghost, then there’s practically not limits to his abilities. Who knows the rules of ghosts?!

        But some of the ghosts might be real. Sayid and Shannon saw Walt. Sawyer and Kate saw the black horse (heck, Kate even touched the horse!). Okey, you could explain these coincidences by calling them psycho-somatic, by arguing that Sayid saw Walt simply because Shannon already told him she had seen him, and Sayid’s brain tricket him to picture Walt in the jungle. But this can not explain the case mentioned with Sawyer and Kate.

        Another point worth mentioning is why Christian says he can’t help Locke get up from the ground. Maybe ghosts can’t do physical tasks? ‘Cause naturally, if they could, then Christian wouldn’t need Locke to turn the wheel. Or maybe it was predestined that Locke would turn the wheel, and Christian were only there as a guardian angle helping him do what he was supposed to?

        But even if it’s true that Christian is a ghost, i.e. the true ghost of Christian Shephard, the father of Jack, how can we be certain? Remember what Yemi said to Echo right before he was killed by the smoke-monster; (something like..) why do you think I’m your brother?

        Sure, Yemi looked exactly like the real Yemi in that scene, but considering his last words, isn’t it possible that someone (maybe Jacob of smokey) is pulling the strings here? Maybe Yemi was designed to do a certain purpose for someone else other than Echo?

        Okey, we already knew that Christian probably works for/with someone else. But maybe he’s not a ghosts. Maybe he’s an illusion designed with certain psychic abilities, and with a certain task to perform.

        • Dawn-a

          I don’t think Christian is necessarily a ghost…he did hold Aaron before he took Claire off and away to the cabin. I think he could not help Locke up because he’s supposed to do it all on his own. As far as what he is … I’m still working on that one!

          I wonder what would’ve happened if Locke turned the wheel in the other direction!

          • Yeah, did you notice Christian said “push” it and Locke “pulled” it?

    • Beena

      We really can’t dismiss this as merely Locke’s imagination, either. The connection of Christian to Jack (say hello to my son) wouldn’t be a part of Locke’s imagination. That implies that Christian was really there. I think the reason TPTB didn’t show Christian the second time we saw John turn the wheel, was because TPTB were now showing things from a different point of view (the left-behinders point of view).

      • You’re right. After I posted, I thought about the “say hello to my son” thing too. Ok, so it goes back to who is Jacob? Apparently he is not affected by time. Then again, did Locke think it was Christian talking and think it was Jack, or was Jacob talking and we are yet to see who his son is? The well just gets deeper!

    • McM

      I apologize in advance for the long-winded reply, but my theory requires a bit of explanation.

      Everyone is very quick to bring up Slaughterhouse-Five because of Billy Pilgrim’s (and Desmond’s and Minkowski’s, etc.) state of being “unstuck in time.” This is, of course, a perfectly valid literary parallel or inspiration or whatever you’d care to call it, but I haven’t come across anyone who has thought of comparing Christian’s state to that of Winston Niles Rumfoord from The Sirens of Titan. There are Tralfamadorians in that one too!

      If you haven’t read it, I’ll try to summarize a bit: Rumfoord (and his dog Kazak) travel into space and encounter a phenomenon Vonnegut calls a “chrono-synclastic infundibulum,” a place “where all the different kinds of truths fit together.” Basically this causes them to become “wave phenomena” and “exist along a spiral stretching from the Sun to the star Betelgeuse. When a planet, such as the Earth, intersects their spiral, Rumfoord and Kazak materialize, temporarily, on that planet.” (from wikipedia)

      As a result, Rumfoord essentially exists at all times and is aware of all happenings, past and future. I’m thinking this could be similar to what’s happened to Christian and could explain how he’s appeared in L.A. at Jack’s hospital, on the freighter seconds before it exploded, down in the donkey wheel cavern with Locke (but didn’t actually TOUCH him! Whether he was unable or unwilling remains to be seen) and at various other places on the island.

      Other things I think would be great to discuss are this concept of “different kinds of truths” (Widmore and Ben could both be telling the truth, just DIFFERENT truths), and if something like this is what happened to Christian, is resurrected Locke now privy to all the events of the past and future? It doesn’t seem so, but we haven’t seen him much since he’s been back.

      • I like it! Instead of a reply, this should be a separate post! 🙂
        I was wondering too if Locke is now the new Christian, or will be. Looks like I have some “Sirens of Titan” to read now. Thanks.

    • freakazoid

      How did charlie turn up 3 years later at Hugos hospital? Remember jack was transporting Christians deceased body when they crashed just as what happened this season with lockes deceased body. And furthermore i’ll bet we have not seen the last of mr. echos’ little brother since he was deceased in the heroin plane when it crashed and then became an apparition. boone also became an apparition after dying. claire was presumed blown up and then seen in jacobs cabin with her father Christian. Some folks seem to die and still hang around, we even saw ana lucia in the season opener working her beat in L.A. Can’t remember the time line on that one though lol

  • If we are going with natural disasters here. Why not the volcano?

    • hyperRevue

      It’s not surrounded by volcanic rock?

      • good point.

      • elijahmoon

        being filmed in Hawaii so in reality the island IS volcanic rock.. lol

      • Thor

        I thought there were lots of volcanic rocks.. Bernard used them to make the sign.

        • elijahmoon

          hell to the yeah nice catch Mighty Thor

  • k

    call me crazy but im still convinced that damn statue is going to have a human face…if we knew it was going to be some silly dog face why not just bloody show it us already? i wont be in awe when it is finally revealed…but a human head with some face we knew or not… yeh that would make me scream no dbout!

    – we are already speculating that we think its some egyptian god but i still think its going to be a human face- locke/ jacob i dont know still think it is going to be a humsn face…!

    • Beena

      I’ll just wet myself laughing if it turns out to be Ben’s face on that statue. I really will (snickering)!

    • A.G.Wooding

      I’ve been thinking this myself, so many people have been researching Egyptian Gods but I think this would be a huge disapointement. Who would you rather it was Jacob, Richard or Locke or some stupid God we don’t know and will have to answer for homework because noone will be able to explain it.

  • Dorkusbob

    Christian in the cave was a ghost. Jacob or whatever he was/is called has been around a loooong time and is tied to the wheel. I agree with the post that there are easier ways to get to the wheel, but time might have closed those holes. The wheel wasn’t off track because of Ben, but some one else’s misuse of the wheel. This happened in the past (earlier along than when John pushed it back) If time runs smoothly the cave stays cool, but if something is grinding the gears, you get heat which is why the chamber was not frozen.

  • Dharma Adept

    if anything, the statue should be Thoth, since he’s the mythological Egyptian deity most often connected with Atlantis.

    here’s an excerpt from “the Emerald Tablets of Thoth”:

    “Few there would be with courage to dare it,
    few pass the portal to dark Amenti.
    Raised over the passage, I, a mighty pyramid,
    using the power that overcomes Earth force.
    Deep and yet deeper place I a force-house or chamber;
    from it carved I a circular passage
    reaching almost to the great summit.

    There in the apex, set I the crystal,
    sending the ray into the “Time-Space,”
    drawing the force from out of the ether,
    concentrating upon the gateway to Amenti.

    Other chambers I built and left vacant to all seeming,
    yet hidden within them are the keys to Amenti.
    He who in courage would dare the dark realms,
    let him be purified first by long fasting.”

    so, let’s see. we’ve got: “a power that overcomes earth force” (gravity), which would be electromagnetism; a “mighty pyramid” (identified with Pharonic egypt); a portal (the hatch?); a “deeper place” (chamber of the frozen donkey wheel); a “gateway” to “Time-space” (the FDW, again); and the idea of purification being necessary to “dare the dark realms” (john locke’s ability to see jacob/christian, his selection as the one who was supposed to turn the wheel, even his sacrifice/resurrection). even if no connection to Lost/Atlantis was intended by the writers/producers, there are simply too many parallels to mark this as mere coincidence.

  • What if when we see the front of the statue the face is eroded and unrecognizable? That would suck

    • coheed 2113

      imagine if we see the statue and its hurleys face on it that would be the greatest thing ever to happen in the entire series

  • The well was dug by the Black Rock survivors.

    Buried again by the Dharmists after they discovered the wheel and found the original entrance(s).

    The statue probably was destroyed by the Locke turn.

    I wonder – could Alpert (probably his face on the statue) be trying to determine how to stop that happening?

    Or maybe that ancient incident caused Alpert to lose control of whatever the Island is (what gave Atlantis its power).

    Is the Island an entity or simple the residence for a zero-point entity source, all mysticism aside.

    • I am glad you brought up the Black Rock Survivors. I had always thought that Richard, and perhaps Matthew Abbadon were Black Rock Survivors. The first time Ben sees Richard he looks like he just got shipwrecked. I still think it’s possible. What if Richard saw the rope sticking out of the ground, dug the well, and he built the wheel to access the energy. Could the wheel also be wreckage from the ship? Was Richard the first to turn the wheel and now he lives forever?

      • Thor

        It might be that Richard was the first to turn the wheel, which would mean that Ben also lives forever. And that doesn’t sound so great to me.

        But there’s something very wrong with Richards’ appearance when Ben meets him as a kid. Richard looks like a pirate then for sure, but we know now that he looked totally normal in the 50’s! Was he playing a trick on Ben, or is Ben’s flashback not 100% historical accurate?

        • Beena

          It’s conceivable that Richard has traveled through time more than once. Perhaps when he had that “pirate-like” appearance it was one on his first times to travel through time, and he met Ben. Didn’t Richard tell Ben it wasn’t time for Ben to leave Dharma yet, at that meeting? Maybe Richard needed to get back to his own regular time line, then later came for Ben slightly further into Ben’s time line. (it’s making my head hurt to think of all the possible time lines of all the characters..soon I’ll be having the nosebleeds, too!)

          • I actually think Richard is from the future, like maybe 2020. He got “unstuck” in time when somebody turned the wheel and the island jumped to the past. That’s why he doesn’t age (same thing will happen to Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Dan). Perhaps he will begin to age again once he reaches the year from which he jumped..?

            If he was from the future it would sure explain a lot, like how he knows so much about the island and its inhabitants. I believe Jacob is from the future too; that would explain how he always knows what to do/say and what’s best for the island.
            In the future, Jacob is either 1=experiencing time-flashes (that is why he keeps appearing in random places at random times) or 2=he is able to send his mind through time. [When the flashes first started, Daniel explained that they are either moving through time or their ‘minds are moving through time.’ This is what he was attempting to train the mice to do….access memories that had not yet been created by sending its brain into the future.]

            IF Richard is from the future….what year did he travel back to? 1950? 1920? 1000BC?
            I wouldn’t be surprised if the statue was constructed to resemble Richard, who would seem like a God to indigenous peoples from 3000 years ago!

          • Thor

            Sounds plausible!

            This could also be the case for many of the other Others on the island. Remember Juliet got to see x-ray pictures (or some other type..) of a woman from the island. She guest the woman was about 70 years old, when in fact, or at least according to Richard, she was in her 20’s. She also probably looked like she was in her 20’s, just like Richard always looks the same age.

            This could imply that although Richard appears to be the same, there could be minor changes that we don’t know anything about, yet.

          • Thor

            Remember at some point (don’t remember when, but anyway..) Ben asks Richard something like “You do remember birthdays don’t you?”.

            Now suppose Richard IS from the future, and stuck in the past. Maybe he stopped celebrating his own birthday after he time-traveled, because in one way he hasn’t been born yet.. and then the whole concept with his own birthday becomes absurd. Quite ironic then of Ben, to ask if he remembers birthdays.. cuz he has not born yet.

            The part of it that’s not ironic is the possible fact that Richard is lousy at remembering his friends’ birthdays… and Ben does not respect that, because he’s always serious..

          • coheed 2113

            or remember how mr friendly looked like a vagabond everytime we saw him in season 2 but then in season 3 he looked normal it could juts be that richard was dressed up to look like he was a hobo but really he was civilized and well groomed lol

      • I always suspected that The Others were from the shipwreck. When Widmore was introduced, I began to suspect it was actually his ship and Richard predated him.

        Then they reveal Widmore as a youth and being treated by Alpert like a trainee (if Widmore had been that young when the ship wrecked and had not aged he would still not be so impulsive).

        But the Egyptian/Atlantis connection makes me think more and more that Richard is a native, although I do like the idea he could be from the future (Jack/Kate’s kid?) mentioned below. I can see that.

        I think being caught in the direct flux of the energy close to the wheel mutates those nearby. So Ben, Widmore and John may all have certain abilities (but not necessarily the same) just like Des.

        As far as the wheel being from the wreck how would someone at that time learn to control the energy with just a wheel? He would have known to do that – from the ruin of a previous wheel or ancient texts. Dunno.

      • freakazoid

        Damn smart dude, the wheel is wreckage and alpert built it, i’m still sticking with my theory that alperts is the face on the statue. this just adds to it , thx man!!

    • bmarric00

      I like the idea of Richard’s face on the statue. He rocks the eyeliner just like the Egyptians did

      • coheed 2113

        amazing lmao

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  • jack

    cba checking? but did they both turn the wheel in the same direction?

    • Sort of, yes. Locke was actually putting it “on track” although it did move forward at the same time.

      • cap10tripps

        I wonder if they will stay on this current timeline for the duration. Will they be setting something (the incident?) right and moving on? Or will they try to get back to their time? James and Juliet seemed pretty comfy, but if there’s one thing we know from most any time traveling fiction you can think of, it’s the fact that you CANNOT cause the paradox of running into yourself…

        • elijahmoon

          I have a thought. The scene from like 5-1,2,3 not sure. Anyway the one where we see farady in the orchid passing marvin candle. If there is to be any more time travel[Im sure there is] then this is an obvious scene that could lead to it. Getting to the point of my thought tho. I think this scene may not be gotten back to until the end of the next season. [end of LOST as it were] As in this episode leads to the resolution of the the time traveling and everything for that matter. Just a thought. Then again they could revisit it next wednesday. 🙂 If Im right tho I want credit and all to worship me as a dual ankh wielding Egyptian god. 🙂

          • dolce

            It was the opening scene of 5.01. I think it will be the end of season 5.

          • cap10tripps

            I’m kind of thinkin Faraday is trying to change something based on his love for Charlotte. When we first meet Daniel he was watching the discovery of the fake wreckage of 815 and looked like someone who was heart-sick. I think he’d been through this before (hence Charlotte remembering him as a young girl) and he knows it much the same way Desmond can remember things that haven’t happened (Charlie dying). I’m not sure what it will cause, but I’m now thinking it’s the incident.

            This incident is what the 815ers will try to resolve in season 6. When it’s resolved, something will be changed that will cause the gateways to be closed. This will cause a Mr. Roger Linus (and his boy) to never make it to the island, which directly results in Charles Widmore remaining on the island. This will cause Widmore’s obsession with the Black Rock and finding the island again to never happen, directly resulting in one Desmond Hume to never be pushed into a boat race that leads to his shipwreck. This will prevent his missing his button pushing shift, thus 815 never crashes. Finally our 815ers live their hum-drum existence as non-time traveling earth rescuers. Ultimate salvation is earned, and the tangent universe will cease to exist… LOST The End.

  • jack

    ^^^ That sounds genius. But surely preventing preventing Roger Linus and his boy from getting to the island would prevent the incident. Wasn’t it Ben that issued it?

    • cap10tripps

      That was the purge, not the incident…

  • Beena

    i get this bizarre feeling that on the last episode in season 6, our Oceanic 815’ers will pass each other in the airport and won’t even recognize one another and will have no memory of what never really happened, what never really was.

    • freakazoid

      Season 1..locke builds a sweat lodge and takes an hullucinogenic, boone appears to him and literally wheels him through the airport in L.A. We see Hurley working the desk, Claire Aaron and Charlie together, and Charlie dressed in a tuxedo, Sayid Sawyer and kate all walk together having no idea who one another is, poor jack checks his luggage all alone. Past present or future???

  • cap10tripps

    You could be right. If my tangent universe senses are right, I believe the final scene would be the 815ers passing each other in the airport after getting home with just a faint sense of deja vu for each other. I wonder what the likes of Ben and Juliet would be doing. I bet Ben would be dead or dying from his tumor, and Juliet would be hangin with her sister and niece…

    • cap10tripps

      Then we cut to Alpert and/or Jacob, Smokey, and what’s going on with the island (the real star of the show).

      • Beena

        Or maybe they finally show the face of the statue in the last seconds of the entire series! And it turns out to be the only remaining proof of the time line that the 815’ers were actually on the island because the statue is of one of them! (Maybe John Locke)

        • cap10tripps

          I like it…

        • coheed 2113

          or hurley that would be so beastly

  • veryinformedaboutlost

    and just to let everyone know who doesn’t know….it’s been released that Amy’s baby is either
    1. Ethan (he fits the age time-line)
    2. Desmond… (remember, Mrs. Eloise Hawking told him the island isnt finish with him yet, and i believe him and Horace have the same hair color and he and Amy has the same kind of texture)
    3. Jacob (dunno how they’re explain that one tho) pr
    4. Daniel Faraday

    • cap10tripps

      Ethan doesn’t fit the age timeline. He’s too old, and if anything would look younger than 27 in island time. Daniel has already been revealed as Eloise’s son. Desmond is interesting, but I said it was Jacob a few posts ago. It makes all the sense in the world…

      Btw, be wary of posting spoiler material where it’s not marked spoilers. Doesn’t bother me much, just not cool…

      • veryinformedaboutlost

        cap10….btw..the baby’s name is Ethan..so be sure to check ur time lines better next time….and daniel could’ve been eloise’s adopted son for all we know…he’s obsessed with the island like charlotte was….so for all we know..it could’ve been another twist in the plot and he might’ve had to leave the island as a child like charlotte and her mother did..just throwing some things out there

      • freakazoid

        Aaaaaaaand it’s ethan.

  • Rob

    The statue collapse as a result of being hit by Richard Alpert’s penis.

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