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Lost Thoery – “Ji Yeon” – Is Jin Dead?

By docarzt,

  Filed under: Lost Theories
  Comments: 104

jin-mid.jpgSo is Jin really dead?  His grave marker listed his date of death as September 22, 2004; aka the day that Oceanic 815 crashed.  This is bound to generate a ton of theories, but something tells me Jin is alive.  

From TVFrenzy:

  • I think he is dead. It would take something Earth-shattering to both separate Jin and Sun and make her think he’s dead. I mean, not that Earth-shattering occurances can’t happen in Lostland, but still…

  • Matt

    God this season is awful. Luckily the last group of episodes are sayhid centric, Ben centric, Locke centric, and then Jack centric. The Ben one will be flashbacks of pre-purge stuff and he will meet Jacob. in the Locke one we meet the rest of the others again. Like season 3, they waist are time most of the season and then get down to good stuff at the end.

  • Proppenator

    I would have to say Jin is NOT dead. Sun never said he was dead; she only said she wishes he was there. 9-22-04, the day of the crash. The fact that Jin is alive is being covered up.

    Doc, by the way, I think I beat you to it on this one. Barely. Check in the forums, I posted this about 30 seconds before you lol.

  • I would have to say Jin is NOT dead. Sun never said he was dead; she only said she wishes he was there. 9-22-04, the day of the crash. The fact that Jin is alive is being covered up.

    Doc, by the way, I think I beat you to it on this one. Barely. Check in the forums, I posted this about 30 seconds before you lol.

  • LiLi

    I actually missed the part where Sun was talking to Jin’s grave. Can anyone fill me in? Thanks in advance!

  • time_lord

    i guesse this makes aaron one of the oceananic 6 witch makes sense after the end of episode 2 when the abc annoucer came on at the end and said another of the 6 would be revealed next week – so what a sad episode jin had redeemed himself at the end of the episode – what a downer of an episode

  • Dan the Man

    Oh yeah Matt, i trust your opinion, especially since you have us by “are waists” with this season. In my opinion, this has been the most brilliant season yet. The Desmond episode was Lost at its finest, and now we have an episode that is spilling out flash backs and forwards simultaneously. Obviously Michael is in the same situation we find Sayid in later on. They are both working for Ben, which raises many more questions. I can’t wait to find out what happened to Michael when he left. I have a feeling that Sawyer will probably die in the next episode. Many will believe that it could be Claire, because of the earlier episode where Aaron is in Kate’s care, but I have a feeling that everyone that was near the Swan at the time of the explosion/implosion will be unable to leave. All of the Oceanic Six are ppl that were away from the explosion. Kate, Jake, Hurley are on the dock with the Others. Sun, Jin, Sayid are on the boat. I don’t know why a baby would be allowed to leave, other than the fact that it doesn’t have a past memory to get mixed up with. The next episode is going to be awesome. Michael flash backs?? I can’t wait.

  • valentin_50

    If he is indeed dead who is the 6th member of the Oceanic 6?

  • LiLi

    I actually missed the part where Sun was talking to Jin’s grave. Can anyone fill me in? Thanks in advance!

  • ErasedSlate

    I guess these are the official members of the O6: Kate, Sayid, Jack, Hurley, Aaron and Sun.

    Oh, I think he is still alive, but I am not placing any wagers on that.

  • ErasedSlate

    I guess this makes it official, get busted for DUI and your character gets killed on the show.

  • JEM

    Doc, I think that Jin is still alive on the island but wasn’t able to make it onto the helicopter. He would have wanted Sun to leave and survive. If that’s true, then Aaron is the 6th member of the Oceanic 6. Also, I still think Claire dies–no reason for her to give away the baby without leaving herself. In contrast, Sun would have every reason–if Jin couldn’t get on the helicopter–to lie about Jin dying in the crash. The entire Oceanic 6 story is a cover-up! And the gravestone is just a remembrance.

  • losty09

    Jin’s only as dead as the other 815ers who the o6 left behind.

  • Mediator88

    I think it’s very, very clear that Jin is still alive. The ending was carefully written to use phrases such as “I miss you so much” and “I wish you were here” rather than “I wish you were still here” or similar.

    The look that Sun gives to the grave at the end is another clue. There’s more than just sadness. There’s resignation… that’s indicative of her knowledge that Jin is still alive on the island, in my opinion.

  • Chris6o7

    Maybe the Jin we all know is dead and somewhere in the world there is a parallel Jin?

    *thinks back to episode two with the picture that looked like Mr. Eko*

  • Maverick

    Why would Hurely say “go see him?”

    Why would they go see a stone at all if they knew he was alive. My money is on he is dead. For whatever reason. And is one of the two bodies they brought back. I say two bodies because their cover up lie says 8 people survived and two died shortly. I dont see a reason to create a lie of two people dieing, unless they brought bodies back, again for whatever unknown reason.

  • candace

    I’m not convinced one way or the other if he’s alive or not. Every time I think one thing, I think of a way to shoot that down. I mean, say he is alive – would he be able to run around in public without being recognized (seeing as how all of the other Oceanic 6 are very famous post-rescue). The “I’ve only been married 2 months” comment really makes me wonder if it’s a flashback, however I would be REALLY surprised if they started doing flashbacks and flashforwards in one episode.

    I guess I am of the mindset that Jin is alive, but still on the island. That IF he did fake his death, it’s all part of the MASSIVE cover-up that all of the O6 is now part of (Sayid killing anyone looking for the island, Jack lying under oath)

  • Chris6o7

    Is it just me or did the guy selling Jin the panda doll look a lot like Jin’s father?

  • ackermaniv

    @ candace… it WAS a fb and a ff….

    and i’m with doc and whoever else says that jin isn’t dead. he ‘died’ in the crash like everyone else, which is why his gravestone says the 22nd. the ‘2’ people aren’t important, as D&C said.

    the way that the played the scene at the end really doesn’t spell ‘jin died’ for me…

  • I think Maverick has it right. Jin is probably dead, I’m assuming in some sort of desperate effort to save Sun and the baby. Here is reasoning why.

    1) Again, like Maverick said, Hurley said “go see him” and I don’t think that should be taken lightly. My parents are still alive but have paid for burial plots and headstones already. I don’t go visit their burial plot to go see them, you know what I’m saying? If Jin were alive and on island, Sun would be WAY more likely to talk to a REAL picture of them together than a fake monument to his tragic death in a plane crash.

    2) The reason behind the stone saying the crash date is simple: If the (real or fake) bodies of the pilot, the marshall, Libby, Boone, or Shannon were buried back in America, their graves would say 9/22/04 even though all five of those people died on seperate dates. As far as “the real world” knows, anyone who is not in the Oceanic Six died on that date. Jin’s tombstone is part of the cover-up.

  • MissAnit

    I think that Jin is still alive, on the island. We don’t know what happened to the people there. I think the point about going to “see him” is a good one, but if I were separated for life, I might go “see him” too.

  • NateDaug

    Evangel nailed it. It’s silly to think sun is going to go through a whole charade of pretending jin is dead in her own privacy. If she thought he was still alive out there and probably in danger you really think she’s going to go to a grave to remember him. Plus I doubt she would go along with the whole plane crash lie and not try to get back to jin if he was still alive.

  • jcash

    I think that Jin did die but that he died on the island.. therefore they had to date his tombstone back to the crash, but wouldn’t they know that he was alive if sun was only 2 months pregnant when she gets off the island?

  • trish

    Remember when Jack was testifying at Kate’s trial and had said that only eight of them survived the crash….then she tried to save the other two but…. When she was set free she commented on how she has heard the story said that way so many times and that she thinks he is starting to believe it. I think that has something to do with the date on the tombstone, it’s part of the story that gets them off the island.

  • Dharmalchemist

    I think Jin may die on the island, but most likely he stays on the island and makes a sacrifice by letting Sun take the last seat available in the helicopter in order to save her life and his baby’s. The gravestone is obviously a cover up considering the date on it, but maybe it’s an appropriate symbol for Sun and Hurley to visit to represent the sacrifice Jin made on the island.

  • Devin

    My problem with this episode was just that it was telling too many stories at once. We’ve got Sun and Jin’s island drama, Des and Sayid’s boat story, Sun’s flashforwards, and Jin’s flashbacks all telling their own story in one episode. The result is that not that much happens in each one, and the episode feels kind of short. Instead of an episode, it’s more like four simultaneous mini-episodes.

    That said, I love Lost and I don’t think it’s jumped the shark like a lot of people say.

  • travis

    jin is still alive. i have a little info to back it up too. the tombstone said 9/21/04 as his death right? well from past episodes we know the red sox won the world series in 2004 just like in real life. the world series isn’t until october. the starting date for the w.s. that year was oct 23, 2004. so since the red sox already won the w.s. by this episode it has to at least be november. by that reasoning, jin couldn’t have died in september.

  • Beezo

    I was just thinking about when jin’s flashback could have been, and the guy in the toy store mentioned it was the year of the dragon, tha last year of the dragon was in 2000. 2004 is the year of the monkey.

  • SithLord

    FAR from “jumped the shark”, arguably the best show on tv just keeps getting better.
    I’d say that, at least as far as Sun and Hurley are concerned, Jin is dead in the future. Maybe hes alive and they dont know it, but his death makes sense in respect to past writing of the show. A life for a life. Remember when Boone died, and Aaron was born. Shannon for Henry Gale. Anna Lucia, Libby, Eko and Charlie. Four freightors.
    Was this flash forward before or after Kates Eggtown?
    The Captain claimed that Ben is responsible for the fake 815 and all the dead onboard, but remember, “dont trust the captain.” Unless Michael wrote that, and hes working for Ben. If he really is Bens “man.” LOL

  • Nick

    as much as I want to believe that Jin is alive, i just don’t see it. ESPECIALLY with Beezo’s comment regarding the year of the dragon. That is the little kind of info that Damon and Cuse drop in there to clue in the really hardcore viewers to what is really going on.

    Also…would such a “different” or “changed” man be yelling out the “I will kill you” and “I will hunt you down and rip your head off”? I doubt it, sounds much more like something the “old” Jin would say.

    All that being said, I really really hope he isn’t dead. Jin has been one of my favorite characters on the show since th beginning, and seeing him and Sun actually happy and perfectly coe-existing together at last was a great moment for the show.

  • carle

    jin was standing behind glass during sun’s delivery for a brief moment.

  • rob

    man, my 2 least favorite characters on the show (jin/sun), glad theyre outta the way. good to see hurley all jazzed up and playing along with the O6 charade. looking forward to more on-island time, go LOCKE go!

  • james

    THIS IS AN AUTOMATED MESSAGE

    ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO TOUT THE DUI CURSE. GO IN A HOLE AND DIE. IT IS BULLSHIT, IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED OVER AND OVER AS BULLSHIT. QUIT WATCHING THE SHOW BECAUSE YOU HONESTLY DON’T UNDERSTAND HOW INTRICATELY PLANNED IT IS.

  • james

    nick…um….DUH?? At the end he was in the hospital and he said to the nurse: “I’ve only been married 2 weeks.”

    Doc is saying that Jin’s death is a fake. Obviously, they’re lying about the circumstances of it since his tombstone said he died in the crash.

  • james

    TRAVIS — the date on Jin’s tombstone is the date of the plane crash. They’re saying he died in the plane crash.

    BEEZO– The flashback took place 2 weeks after Jin and Sun got married.

    I think Jin could possibly be alive in the future.

    DON’T EVER MENTION THE DUI CURSE. LEAVE THAT TO FUCKING ASSHOLES WHO DON’T EVEN WATCH THE SHOW. NEWSFLASH!!!! JIN IS STILL ON THE SHOW AS FAR AS THE PRESENT IS CONCERNED HE WASN’T KILLED OFF THE SHOW FOR GOOD. WE ARE STILL GOING TO BE SEEING HIM EVERY WEEK. HOW THE HELL DOES THAT JIVE WITH THE DUI CURSE AT ALL?????

  • jyles

    lol who said the comment about eko? he left the show due to family problems. he was going to be a key person in the story regarding the island but that got stoped when he left, hence we see no more visions etc LOL. he was the one that was going to get close to the “Black Smoke”

  • milo

    Doc, could you delete Matt’s spoilers. Matt, quit being such a jackass. Not liking the show is no reason to be a scumbag and try and ruin it for everyone else.

  • b

    Did anyone think twice about Hurley’s response when Sun told him that no one else was coming to see her baby? Why would he think that was “good”?

  • milo

    Unbelievable episode, I can’t remember any that has kept me on the edge of my seat.

    You think Jin is O6.
    You think Sun may die in childbirth.
    You think Jin is dead.
    You find out that Jin’s gravestone is a lie, meaning he could still be alive.

    What a roller coaster.

    At this point obviously we don’t know for sure. But since we know the gravestone is a lie, I think it’s obvious that they want us to question whether Jin is dead. If he died before rescue, they probably would have brought his body home and said he died after the crash. By saying he died IN the crash, it’s probably an empty grave.

    Also, I don’t think Sun ever said that Jin was dead, in private or otherwise. She only says things like she misses him and she wishes he was there for the birth, all of which would make sense if he’s still alive. And when they “go see him”, it’s likely she goes there to talk to him since she can’t see him because he’s still on the island. She’s not mourning his death, she’s mourning his absence.

    I’d put the odds of him turning out to be alive at about 95%.

    What’s really crazy about this episode is that you would only get the hint that he’s alive if you catch the date on the tombstone (and remember that’s the date of the plane crash). After the episode, we were sad that Jin died because we only caught the 2004 part…I went online and found out it was Sept 22, and immediately was relieved that he was probably alive.

    Last night, most of the people who saw it probably went to bed thinking that Jin dies – this will probably be the most widely argued aspect of the episode today.

  • ErasedSlate

    James, chill. That post about Jin and the DUI curse was meant to be snarky. Read the previous post where the poster also agrees that Jin is still alive. Come off the edge man, it’s okay.

  • themachine

    Jin is alive, Aaron is not one of the O6. Matt, get lost, save that ish for the tts

  • Sephiroth87

    What if the year of the dragon is in fact, the NEXT year of the dragon (2012)?
    Don’t think so, but knowing lost, anything can be…

  • angela

    didn’t darlton say we would think we knew that someone died, and yet they didn’t? i think it’s pretty obvious jin isn’t dead. he makes the comment to sun 3/4 thru the episode that he will do whatever it takes to protect sun and the baby. and i am sure he gets stuck on the island in order to get sun on the copter.

    another question: where was lapidus going on his “errand”? what did the captain say to sayid and desmond? (it also seems fairly clear that ben staged the wreckage. hence he has a sh**ton of money). when will we see ben’s explanation to locke? next week?

    my money is on sawyer dying. which pains me, i love him. maybe next week our o6 get to the freighter? (i keep thinking sawyer must die getting kate off the island).

    and, again, i don’t think the freighter takes them home, i think they get marooned on a less exciting island. probably after everyone on the ship goes crazy and dies.

  • hazey

    This one has me a lil confused, a little haapy and a lil upset. I dont know why they acted like Jin was dead….then did a flashback(i do believe it was flashback)with the whole Panda thang. Who kept calling Jin to get to the hospital? I also dont know why Kate has Aaron, the only possible thang is if Claire did die…. Im curios also, which way did they get off the island….boat or helicopter? If the boat, when did it go back to pick up the rest of them. If it was the helicopter, would it have been able to hold Hurley, Jack, Kate and Aaron, Sun, Sayid, (some of yall are debating if there is another person or is Aaron considered one of the 6) 2 bodies, plus a captain? Or did Sayid fly it? Too many questions, not enough minutes in the episodes. I wish there were no pauses…just a full 60 minutes of LOST straight. P.S. I never found out whose funeral it was last season that Jack went to and no one showed up? Hazey

  • milo

    At this point, what reason do we have to believe that Aaron isn’t one of the O6?

    I know promos aren’t to be trusted, nor necessarily podcasts…but at this point doesn’t it seem pretty obvious that they were only being vague about Aaron to fool us in this episode that Jin was O6? Now that we know he isn’t, isn’t it pretty obvious that it was Aaron all along and we were just misdirected?

  • tom

    On the grave, the right side showed a 1974 date (assuming Jin’s birth) then the 9/22/04 date.

    However, on the left side had a single date in 1980. One thought is that it was Sun’s birth and the cemetary plot is for both of them, but I assume she’s supposed to be older than 24 when the show started.

    Anyone catch that or any screen caps?

  • milo

    Hazey:
    It was a flashback. Jin was going to see business associates. The two trips to the hospital were separate things years apart, they were just edited together to fool us into thinking Jin was going to see Sun.

    Nobody knows whose funeral it was last season. I guess now we can eliminate Sun and Jin.

    I’m not sure what you mean by two bodies, if there’s a death next week that would only be one (and that person could die on the boat). Whether it’s the helicopter or a small boat, it’s possible they made more than one trip to pick people up.

    A big question I haven’t seen asked is how will Desmond end up NOT getting saved considering he’s already on the boat?

  • milo

    Tom, I agree that’s Sun’s birthdate for a shared tombstone.

    The actress is older than that, but I’d consider her hot enough to pull off 24. 🙂

  • Mike

    I think Jin is alive and still on the island. The reason Sun and Hurley went to the cemetary is because they know they are being watched by someone who wants to know where the island is, so they put on that whole show for that person(s) benefit (Abbadon?). When Sun was having the baby and was highly medicated she kept talking about waiting for Jin to get there. She knows he is still alive and the drugs were making her spilll the beans that’s why she said she was calling out to Jin when she was talking at the cemetary to again throw off the bad guys.

  • Mike

    I think Jin is alive and still on the island. The reason Sun and Hurley went to the cemetary is because they know they are being watched by someone who wants to know where the island is, so they put on that whole show for that person(s) benefit (Abbadon?). When Sun was having the baby and was highly medicated she kept talking about waiting for Jin to get there. She knows he is still alive and the drugs were making her spilll the beans that’s why she said she was calling out to Jin when she was talking at the cemetary to again throw off the bad guys.

  • MsDee

    Many are complaining about watching both flashforwards and flashbacks but this is just another reason I love Lost . The creators knwo their audience and know that we are a pretty intelligent bunch and the fact that they throw FF’s and FB’s together is very telling. As an audience member I am flattered that my intelligence isnt being insulted and everything is not being “babied down” for me.

    One simple reason I think that Jin is dead; Hurley wouldnt wear a suit for just any reason. LOL

    But we wont see the last of Jin ebcause like a poster above said there is still the what when and how he died.

    DUI curse?

  • Koobie

    See its not the DUI that causes them to die on the show, rather it is when the actor finds out that they will die off that they get the DUI.

    Getting killed off in Lost is a great reason to get plastered, no idea why they decide to make the poor choice of driving though…

  • therseus

    I dont think the Oceanic 6 has the braintrust, or imagination for that matter, to be able to make up a collective lie about The fate of the Marshal and Jin both having died in Crash, because then they also need to lie about Locke, Claire and the other Oceanic survivors, being dead too. Hurley would fold under pressure. A secret arrangement must have been established. Also Jin, as the Paik enforcer, would also be sought by Suns father….because they tried to escape to the United states. Pretending he died in Crash would help Sun too, this way her father wont be able to hurt Jin. I think he is still with Locke. This all however assumes Jin comes clean about the work he did for her father. People need to consider that.

  • ErasedSlate

    MsDee,

    The DUI curse, James read on to the next post please, goes back to the deaths of ana lucia and libby. They were both busted for DUI’s earlier in the season. Many speculated that the DUI’s were the reason why they were killed off in “Two for the Road,” despite Cuselof’s repeated affirmation that this was the plan all along. ddk was busted last year for DUI. So, some people have been speculating that Jin might be dying this season.

  • LJV

    I think that Jin made it to the boat, but got the same type of sickness as Desmond….he may have died from the sickness on the way back and would be one of the 2 that died from the O8. The other thought might be that the flashback of Jin is somehow tied to him trying to find a constant. Why was it so important for the animal to be a panda? How can the receipient of the panda be tied to Jin and Sun’s past?

  • Mike

    How about this. Michael is not the mole! The captain is Ben’s mole! Reasoning: the captain was, as Sayid put it, “very forthcoming”. I think a little too forthcoming. All the info he gave Sayid and Desmond was too convenient, just like the info Ben gave Locke about Widmore. How did the captain know Sayid’s and Desmond’s last names but the doctor didn’t even know what their first names were. Ben told him. I think Michael got on the ship to get back to the island and knows that Ben’s mole is the captain and that is why he passed the note Sayid and Des. The writers made it too obvious that Michael was the mole, it was anti-climatic, something they don’t do. This theory would be a surprise.

  • Didn’t Kristin from E!online say there was going to be a death on the show but not in the normal sense and that person would still be on the show for a long time? I’m thinking this is what she was talking about and Jin really did die.

  • Andres

    Just to be clear:
    – 2004 was the year of the Monkey (815 crash)
    – 2000 was the year of the Dragon (Jin’s hospital/panda scenes)
    – 2005 was the year of the Rooster (presumably when Sun has the baby)

    Therefore, and assuming FBs and FFs don’t go too far into the past and future:
    – Sun’s was a flash forward
    – Jin’s was a flash back

  • EE

    Did the Panda time travel back? It looked like that. I also think the guy at the store said the dragon is lucky in the year of the dragon, not that it was the year of the dragon.
    Why is Ben the baddie? Did he get the 300 bodies from the Purge to fill the plane? Why is Sayid on his side as per the flashforward (manipulated somehow to be there). We know Michael is weak so he would do Ben’s bidding, especially to save Walt. I mean Walt is special – still needs to be told how special… And did anyone note in the preview how Michael (assuming) presses the execute button in the Orchid? station. The gas has been disabled (so they say) so how can people die from that?

  • StRand

    Concerning Mikes last post, must agree that the So called Captain Galt like Goodwin and Ethan is Bens mole, why has not the Captain succumbed to the sickness as others and what about the doc…..he looks like a creepy lost writer….no offense……aren’t the nazis extinct

  • BenLinus

    Dear Audience,

    I love Juliet, and yes Jin is alive WORKING for me.

    Sincerely,
    -Ben

  • jbone

    i think the guy selling the panda may have been a time cop like ms hawking….something was up with him…the nurses seemed sketch too

  • b

    Mike –

    Why would Locke need to sit down to find out that the captain is the mole? Unless the captain is an important character from Locke’s past, that wouldn’t make any sense. The only reason it was obvious to docarzt.com visitors is because most of us knew that Harold Perrineau was returning this season. Any LOST viewer that only watches the show and doesn’t go to any websites or anything like that would have had no clue that Michael was the mole.

    EE –

    The bodies in the staged Oceanic wreckage couldn’t have been from the Purge. First off, there probably weren’t that many people and second, those bodies had been rotting in a ditch in the humidity for at least a few years before the Oceanic crash.

  • Frank from South Kakalaki

    Jin is dead, but NOT a part of the Oceanic 6.

    I think you’ve all forgotten that in the courtroom scene for Kate’s trial Jack says there were 8 who survived the plane crash, but only 6 survived to makeup the “Oceanic 6.”

    So, my guess is that when we get to the point in the storyline where the Oceanic 6 are rescued, there will be 8 people, 6 of whom are still alive. We know Jin is one of the dead. The question should be, “Who is the other one that is deceased?”

    There’s something very important that I think a lot of people are missing out on. We know the Oceanic 6 get rescued, but WHO rescues them?

    Guess what? It can’t be by Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank.

    In Hurley’s Flash Forward, we see Matthew Abaddon ask Hurley if anyone was still alive living on the island. Since this occurred AFTER the rescue, this leads me to believe that Mr. Abaddon has lost contact with his group.

    If Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank rescued the Oceanic 6, why would Mr. Abaddon ask Hurley about the island? He would already know.

    My theory is the Oceanic 6 would have to have been rescued by a third party. Ben strikes a deal with them and strategically places them so they can be found. This theory is further supported because we know Sayid ends up working for Ben.

    It is entirely possible that Ben set them up on another island or put them on a boat on a course to be found.

    Keep in mind that Ben was able to show Juliet live video of her sister, and that Richard and Ethan ran a highly secretive operation OFF the island NEAR Portland. We also know that Desmond shipwrecked onto the island. And following the episode where we saw Ben’s passports and aliases, we know Ben can get off the island and knows his way around the world.

    So, what happened to Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank, and who rescued the Oceanic 6? My theory is they have been killed off or have been captured and are stranded on the island.

    Frank from South Kakalaki

  • coleman.4815162342

    Jin is not dead. This is all setting up for an emotional reunion in the sixth season. He stayed on the island for reasons unknown forcing Sun to leave, and that by the way will be another brilliant performance by these two fine actors.

    The question we should be asking ourselves is why six. Is that how much room there is on a helicopter. Or would that be five seats and Aaron being held by Kate. My guess is that Claire dies by the way, but not until Season Five. I have to idea who apparently dies next episode, unless it is Micheal in a Flash-Forward, and it is revealed that he is the man in the coffin.

  • j.nc

    Just because someone is NOT a member of the O6 does not mean they are dead. I just go with the assumption they are alive until we see them dead and even then (Patchy) you never know. 🙂

  • disco

    Sun = flashforward
    Jin = flashback

    Producers already said they’d use a combo of forward/back. They also said the flash forwards would not be presented in chronological order.

    Hence, we saw Jack visit Hurley in the looney bin – before Jack went crazy. We see Hurley visit Sun, probably before he went into the looney bin again.

    Of course Sun will “pretend” to visit Jin – its about keeping up appearances. That’s why Hurley said very non-chalantly “go see him” – you could hear in his voice he knew it was all a hoax, and that’s why he was happy no one else was coming. Just go and get it done.

    What will be interesting, is finding out exactly what is making the 6 keep this huge secret, why are they doing it?

    Producers also said next season is about everyone’s motivation for going back to the island. Jin being alive on the island is obviously Sun’s motivation for going back.

    And as for them splitting apart voluntarily, if it came to saving Sun and the baby’s life, Jin would stay on the island to ensure their safety.

    Jin’s death is fake…he’s alive on the island. They are pretending for the reason all of the 6 are keeping the “secret” of the survivors – and I can’t wait to find out what that is!

  • elsie

    Travis, I hate to bust that bubble but it doesn’t add up. We know Jin didn’t die in September regardless of what the marker says; currently it’s December on the Island and he’s still alive. The Red Sox have already played by the time this episode takes place. The marker doesn’t tell us anything about whether Jin is alive or not, only that he’s not with Sun. It probably says he died on 9-22-04, the date of the crash, because that’s a stipulation of the Oceanic settlement and Sun is having to participate in the same “Oceanic 6” cover story that we saw Jack and Kate adhering to.

    Jin’s either dead, or trapped on the Island, but either way, the date of the Red Sox game and the date on the tombstone don’t exclude one another at all or tell us whether he’s dead or alive.

  • Dazmond

    it’s annoying me how many people are saying “huh why does the grave say that”. It’s pretty dam obvious, Kate’s court case, Jack gives his story of essentially everyone except the escapees having died in the plane crash. Obviously Jin never makes it off the island and as such they use the story of him dieing back in the crash..as for the grave, probably has no body.

  • Gannett from VA

    Since the date of death on the grave-stone was Sept. 22, 2004, it’s obvious that Jin is still on the island (dead or alive, we wouldn’t know). Jack’s story involved 8 people surviving the initial crash into the water, with 2 people dying shortly after (Dr. Kate couldn’t save them!! NOOO!!!). That means Jin was, in the made-up lie, one of the two that made it through the initial plane crash but died on the island. Remember, that’s all in context with the cover-up story Jack told in court (Eggtown). What this really means is that Sun makes it off the island, but for some reason Jin stays (by his own will or not) on the island. Sun knows he’s still on the island — visiting the grave-stone was all an act. Listen to how she says, “I miss you. I miss you.”

    Jin – Alive(or dead) on island
    Sun – Alive off island
    Ji Yeon – Alive off island

  • JJ

    Did anyone notice in the scene where Sun is in her bedroom, the tv is on and Nikki is on screen doing that Expose bit that we saw in the fb…the camera pans to a shelf where there is the tube of toothpaste…right behind the toothpaste is a bottle of cologne. When i was little, my father had a bottle of cologne just like it…I have been trying since last nite, and I cannot find the name of this cologne!! Anyone else see/know what it is? And is it a suggestion of Jin not being dead at all?

  • hazey

    Jin on or off the island……..I dont know exactly. You all make some good points. I think Jin is alive. Whether or not Sun and Hurley know about it, or they dont…i think he somehow is gonna end up working for Ben just like Sayid?

    Has anyone noticed that the Jacob (well the vision of him, when Ben introduces him to Locke), and Jacks father look alike. I have paused it and they look just like each other….SPOOKY. Plus, will Jack and Claire ever find out they are brother and sister?

  • Jason

    I think coleman.4815162342 is on to something about the coffin mystery. Do you all remember the name on the newspaper clipping? Wasn’t it John*** something? It was in a black community (the funeral parlor).
    Anyways, great season and I think every show on TV should have set end dates so we can get better quality as Lost has shown to do!

  • SithLord

    I predict Michael dies next episode, killing himself like Regina. When someone major dies, isnt it usually on one of their centric episodes? Unless theres proof that he appears on future episodes.
    Lapidus went for Tim Hortons.

  • milo

    Michael has been credited as a series regular so far this season. They wouldn’t do that if he was only going to appear in one episode plus one scene.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they kill off the character, but definitely not next week.

  • maebe

    This is my first time posting folks, so please share if this has already been brought up:

    The captain on the freighter tells Desmond and Sayid that Ben orchestrated the cover-up of the crash wreckage with ALL passengers found dead. Are there any theories about how they will explain the Oceanic Six survivors since its been broadcasted throughout the “real world” that all bodies were accounted for??

  • CrazyDiamond

    Maybe someone already said this, but why can’t Michael be one of the six? He was revealed today. Aaron was only a fetus on the plane, so maybe they don’t count him as a survivor. Don’t forget that Sun wasn’t SURE when the baby was concieved, which means that it would be easy to say that Jin and her had intercourse the night before the flight, since the due date of the child is based on the woman’s menstrual cycle, which can be lied about.

  • evangelical poet

    Okay, SithLord. Please keep the spoilers off this page. Now EVERYONE knows where Lapidus went! Good going.
    Funny stuff man.

    On a serious note, This is a huge thread and I know there are lots of posts, but could people please read the opinions of others before posting? There is So much repitition here (of questions and answers) because people aren’t reading what others have asked or suggested. Sorry to be anal it’s just kind of queer seeing “did anyone notice that the date on the tobstone is the date of the crash” 50 comments into the discussion… when it’s in the actual post! All I’m saying.

    Oh, and no really… Jin is dead. See my reasoning (way) above.

    Mmm…. Tim Hortons.

  • disco

    Evangelical Poet,

    I don’t understand your reasoning for why Jin is dead. You said that Jin isn’t dead because if he was alive, why would Hurley say “go see him” and why would they go to talk to him at the gravesite?

    If his wife actually made it back as a “survivor” and they had “recovered” the bodies of the non-survivors…wouldn’t it be strange if she refused to “reclaim” the body of her “dead” husband for burial. If she didn’t do that, everyone would wonder what’s up? She can’t say “Sorry, that’s a fake dead body, can’t take it, won’t bury it…” because everyone will go “well, where is Jin then?” She can’t say “Can’t take that body cause Jin is alive” because we all know they are being forced to pretend that everyone else except the 6 died.

    So, since she has to pretend he’s dead, she’d have to pretend that his body was recovered, and she’d have to pretend to do what a wife would do in those circumstances, and grieve, and visit a site, etc.

    If you notice, Hurely said “go see him” nonchalantly….almost implying with his voice that he knew it was a hoax…which is also why he was probably glad no one else was going…easier to just “get the deed done” which is what they have to do…just act out the part…

  • LV

    Someone posted this on EW and I kinda like it:

    “Sun thinks Jin is dead. When the other members of the O6 escaped, she was somehow not conscious because of the progression of her island pregnancy curse. The rest of the six know that the other castaways are still alive on the island, and that’s their big secret. Hurley is starting to feel the guilt, which is why he visits Sun…”

    It might also give us a reason for Hurley saying it was “good” that none of the others showed up in Korea (b/c they might give away the secret).

  • gusteaux

    I think Hurley says, “good” for two reasons:
    1) He was so attached to Claire and Aaron because Charlie sacraficed himself to get them off the island that he couldn’t bear the thought of seeing Kate and Aaron and
    2) He hadn’t yet apologized to Jack about choosing to go with Locke and wasn’t ready to deal with whatever happened.

  • LV

    But he says “goooood” in such a creepy way! 🙂

  • milo

    LV, that’s a really interesting theory. But even if Sun thought Jin was dead, wouldn’t she at least want the “correct” date on his headstone and not the date of the crash?

    Not to mention that she still knows that most of the O6 cover story is a lie – it seems unlikely that she’d somehow believe part of it when she knows the rest is fabricated.

  • kristy

    I think Jin is dead. They had to put that date on the tombstone because it had to be assumed that he died in the crash. So there is only oceanic 6. Kate, Jack, Sayid, Hurley, Sun, and who knows about the last one yet. Sawyer? Micheal? Claire? i dont think its claire because kate was taking care of aaron. wheres walt? Also, Faraday, Charlotte and all them couldnt of rescued them because the black guy from hurleys flashback wanted to know if there were any survivors. wouldnt he kno if they were his people? Somebody else rescued them. Maybe ben let them go since he has access to the outside world. Desmond wasnt part of the oceanic six and ends up working for ben.

  • MamaFairy

    I don’t think that Aaron is considered an O6. It appears that he is thought to truly be Kate’s son (as her mother seems to imply in the courtroom episode). What I don’t understand is how she can be thought of as Aaron’s mom when she was clearly not 9 months pregnant when they crashed (and I thought the whole FBI was onto her whereabouts…so they would know she was not pregnant and due within days of the crash). Although, I guess with the whole loss/gain of time from the island (sending the missile(?) in from the ship) could account for some time-frame issues. I don’t know anymore, I think I’ve just confused myself even more! 😛

  • Jane

    In all honesty, I haven’t read all the comments (there are so many!) So just ignore it if someone has posted the same idea already. Perhaps Jin’s conciousness traveled in time and is stuck somewhere else.

  • girlyboo

    Re: Jin – alive/dead?
    The music surrounding Hurley and Sun’s visit to the gravesite… is the same music from when my beloved Charlie was being drowned/blown out in Through The Looking Glass. I have been humming that tune to myself ever since i heard it last year – and hearing it again – THAT is the moment that I started weeping about Jin, also one of my favored characters. I know it seems a little insignifigant, but i think that, coupled with other points mentioned above… is pretty significant.

    Re: Sun – pregnancy dates suspicious to the rest of world?
    Time doesn’t behave the same on the island as it does off the island. didn’t Daniel just tell us this in Des’ episode? It’s confusing for me – but dould that mean the pregnancy progresses faster on the island than it woul doff the island, or vice versa? I think Faster, which means the rest of world would see it as an earlier conception date – am i right? (really bad at simple math!)

  • ryan

    honestly,
    a lot of people are forgetting that jin kinda had his own flashback deal.
    did anyone notice how jin tried to look in the room a little better to get a view of oh lets say, the baby? just a longing for how his own wife and child are doing. I think mr.paik and whitmore are out for the island, and i’m thinking, somehow, sun really thinks jin is dead, but jin has some kind of memory problem, perhaps lets speculate that jin was on the chopper but he fell out, rescue team on behalf of paik finds him, he has no idea whats going on, and he’s paik’s new “do this and that guy”. Another thing i noticed, was jin’s in china, sun is still in korea, say that paik is growing and jin is his ambasador, out of all those asians how are they ever gonna run into each other? but then again, it’s lost. lol
    On the other hand, after playing the lost video game, I am a firm believer in the alternate jin life theory. Play the game or read a walkthrough or something to find out why. And a lot of people are protecting the cover up, because it’s for the good of those that need the island, as aposed to those that just wanna milk the island.

  • Vayne

    Well, I have an idea… What if Sun having the baby was a flashfoward, and Jin’s scene off the island was a flashback? This is LOST remember, anything is possible 😛

  • wow

    wow. i’m in shock at all of the ridiculous posts here.

  • LOST

    Jin is still alive. If u remember jack said that 6 lived 2 get off the island and every one else had died that was b4 he had grown a beard he sed he needs 2 go back so sun got off the island and jin still on the island they think jin is dead but really he is alive

  • dusty b

    he cant be dead because, THE YEAR OF THE DRAGON.
    that is not until 2012

  • muse

    Jin said he’d do whatever it took to protect her and the baby. I think he meant it, he made a sacrifice of some kind we may not know for awhile. Which meant she could have the baby off the island, safely. Apparently being pregnant on the island itself for the full term may be what kills the mother for whatever reason.

    Also the year of the dragon isn’t just one year – there was one in 2000. Which would be prior to the crash, and at the time he said he’d only been married 2 months. I don’t know exactly what year they married nor do I know if that has ever been made known but it sounds about right.

    Also when the show first started there was so much importance on the numbers, the numbers were in everything. I don’t see so much of that anymore on the flash forwards? None of them seem to be functioning on any normal ‘happy’ capacity in the future either. Like they’re going through the motions, but perhaps it’s too soon after their return. It is strange that years later hurley see’s Charlie, out of nowhere

  • dusty b

    well i should have said the next one isnt until 2012. which also the year the mayans say a be change will come. 12-21-2012. usa usa usa usa usa usa usa

  • Ben

    Was I the only one who realized about halfway through that Jin was in the past and Sun was in the future? It seemed like something they would do to try to mislead viewers.
    And if Jin was alive and had gotten off the Island, why would Ben have chosen Sayid as his hitman when Jin had experience? Ben could easily have taken Sun hostage to force Jin to do his dirty work.

  • carol

    I definately think Jin is dead. In the last episode, Sun was in the future and Jin was in the past, because he was working for Mr. Paik, Sun’s father.

  • dusty b

    one more thing. the license plates used in jin flash were used from 1996-2003. so if the lost crew paid that much attention to detail then it is def a flashback. unless korea used those style plates again.

  • jojo323

    I have to admit this is the first time I’ve ever felt that I missed the point entirely of an episode. Although after reading the opinions on this board I’m pretty sure Jin is still alive on the Island, when I was watching the episode I thought it was an elaborate scheme. When I saw Jin deliver the panda I thought “Damn it Jin you’ve gone right back to your old ways!” But then after the seeing the tombstone and Jin saying “Don’t rush me, I’ve only been married two months.” I thought that Jin had faked his death, letting Sun think he was dead, but was still working for Mr. Paik and possibly the Ababaddon cabal. It wasn’t until I read on here that Jin’s story was a flashback. I feel so dumb now.

  • lmz27

    jojo323: Don’t feel dumb! About half the people I was watching with were all in the same boat as you, and we are all smart, wise, savvy, intelligent thoughtful viewers!! I think I only wasn’t as confused bc I had read a post where someone guessed they’d do a flash back and flash forward together. Actually, you picked up on an important point: the writers chose that scene with Jin because the whole episode was designed to demonstrate to the audience that Jin really HAS genuinely made a change for the better — he’s been transformed and “reborn” on the island. So, in a way, Ji Yeon wasn’t the only birth of the episode. Jin facing Sun’s terrible lie and then FORGIVING her was the moment JIn was reborn on the island. I think I’d mark that moment as one of the greatest achievements of the entire Lost series — showing the story of a character’s rebirth is not easy, and I think Lost writers achieved something truly great here.
    And, I wouldn’t have understood that as much until you posted about how in this episode’s flashbacks, we are seeing the “old ways” of Jin. Very smart observation — it’s the only way Jin’s moment of redemption through forgiveness could have worked as a story — we had to see the old ways and realize that he’s had many false rebirths (moments off and on island when he felt bad about what he did, maybe, and felt true remorse and guilt and love) but the only true eternally transforming one was when he is faced with the opportunity to forgive Sun and takes that opportunity. From then on, JIn is eternally transformed and reborn. So, forgiveness = redemption.
    I just fell in love with this episode even more.

  • KeepingAwake

    jojo-It was confusing, and it was meant to be so! So please don’t feel bad! ((((jojo)))

    As lmz27 said–the Jin FB is a counterpoint to his current situation on the island. Bernard’s talk with him about Karma, and how our poor decisions bring about bad things in our lives, underscored it.

    Many Lost episodes make more sense in retrospect, right? This is one of them. What worries me about it is that since Jin did truly (almost) find redemption, it seems he may well be dead as the pattern has been ‘find redemption, you die’. To me, if Jin had TRULY found redemption, he would not only have forgiven Sun but also asked for forgiveness himself for the man he was. Anyone else think that? Or is it just me? 😉

  • SithLord

    I think you just summed up the theme and whole point of the episode very nicely. This also seems to point to Jin really being dead in the future. Good characters usually redeem themselves before they die, which is what happened, in unique Lost fashion of course.

  • gwen the french guy

    hi, i think that sun is playing a role… in fact she’s one of the ocean six. just like jack lied to avoid kate to go to jail… so maybe she plays that role to avoid jin to be killed by sun’s father because he didn’t send the famous watch i don’t know… to avoid troubles with jin. it might be a very very big lie this ocean six lie but to hide what? and this lie about aaron the baby of kate ? come on… am i the only one who is thinking weird? lol
    see you.

  • disco

    I’m not really sure where to post this…it’s not about Jin, it’s about Claire. Was re-watching Season 1, and when she sees the fortune teller, he grabs her and tells her that she shouldn’t have given up the baby but now that she has, they must suffer…or something along those lines. Then his eyes change colors.

    It references that he sees that she willingly gave up the baby to someone else, that’s the main point.

    That most likely means that she did not die and Kate didn’t kidnap Aaron…she, for reasons still unknown, let Kate take the baby…as was foretold in Season 1…but she wasn’t supposed to do it…and that’s why they will all “suffer”…

    I found that very interesting.

  • spez

    Hi,

    This comment is a little late (just saw this episode recently 🙂 )
    I read thru all the comments here and afaik no one asked this simple question… if Jin supposedly “died” during the plane crash.. then who is supposed to be the father of the baby? How do they explain this to the public? Even if she was supppsed to be conceived the night before the flight, that means they were supposed to be rescued less than 9 months. Now i get confused with the dates in LOST.. as of the last episode, how many months were they supposed to be there already? Aaron is supposed to be what, 3-4 months? Last season (maybe a few weeks or a month in LOST time), Ben said a bunch of stuff happened since the crash (Red Sox won, Christopher Reeve dies)… how many months was that supposed to have been?

    And why was there a question of who is the father of Sun’s baby (back on the island) when Sun’s lover died at least a few weeks or months before their flight, and Sun and Jin didnt have sex at least a few weeks AFTER the crash (where his infertility is “cured” by the island).

    Going back to the Flash Forwards, in Kate’s Flashforward, we saw Aaron grown up and talking.. so he’s 2 or 3 years old? How far along the future is this from Sun’s FF? (Man, these back and forth timelines are dizzying!!) Still this poses a problem, Aaron was already a few months old in the current LOST timeline.. so if they all get rescued in a few days or weeks time, Kate will be going home with a few months old baby boy (when she was visibly not pregnant during the flight), and Sun will be going home a few weeks pregnant. Push their rescue date further and it gets even more confusing.

    Bottomline, Aaron’s age and Sun’s baby’s age are too far apart (at least 1 year ) to be easily explained away.. so again.. who is SUPPOSED to be the father of her baby? Unless their story is its one of the 6 (or 8). the date on Jin’s tomb makes it impossible to be him (as far as the public is concerned).

    Hey!! Maybe it’s “supposed” to be Hurley!! that’s why he went to see Sun!!! 🙂