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Rant and Rate – LOST 6.09 – “Ab Aeterno”

By docarzt,

  Filed under: Lost
  Comments: 233

Perhaps the most anticipated character back story in LOST history was played out tonight.  Richard Alpert has been an essential element of LOST’s mysteries since he first appeared on the show.  This is a man who seems to know what is going on.  The right hand man to both the visiting powers that be on the island (Ben, Widmore, and whoever else), and the all powerful – and recently deceased – Jacob.  Last week, we saw an Alpert who had plumbed the depths of despondency, did “Ab Aeterno” satisfactorily back up Richard’s quest for self destruction? What did we learn about the island?

Among the various aspects of the LOST myth arc that were colored in this episode:

  • How the statue got all messed up.  The Black Rock hit it!  (Next question… where did that gargantuan wave come from!)
  • Jacob views the island as a morally level playing field and is trying to teach MIB that human beings are capable of making the right decisions.
  • No wait!  Jacob really views the island as what stands between a well of infinite evil and the rest of the world.
  • Actually, the fact that Jacob seems to believe both scenarios, depending on who he is talking to, means neither one is true.
  • Richard Alpert’s faith in Jacob was just that:  faith. In terms of answers, Alpert probably didn’t know much more than the other players we have met along the way.  He was simply Jacob’s ageless errand boy and faithful go betweener.
  • The MIB plans to kill all of the candidates.  Question of the week:  if Jacob was ‘holding’ him there, and no-one has assumed Jacob’s station, why can’t he leave now?  Is there some latent quality of the candidates that binds him to the island, or does he just need a ride?  Maybe his ability to turn into smoke is strictly a localized phenomenon.

What are your thoughts about tonight’s episode?  Rate.  Rant.

[poll id=”37″]

From TVFrenzy:

  • Hexonxonx

    Jacob gave both of those answers to Richard, not to different people. And they’re not inconsistent with each other. The island plays a special role holding back some evil, and Jacob brings people to the island so that they can prove themselves.

    This was an incredible episode. Even my girlfriend who thinks Lost is god awful really enjoyed it.

    • Mirko

      I think he means Richard and Mib. The fact that he is not talking to MIB about containing an evil on the island says a lot about what is going on. he thinks MIB IS that evil.

      • Tressexpress

        I think containing evil is understood between Jacob & MIB. That’s why MIB smashes the wine bottle. ~and smashing it while leaving the cork in its place was alluding to another means of prevailing over Jacob. I think MIB’s seen the wine & cork analogy before.

      • EkoEko

        I dont think that he has not had that conversation with MIB; and I think that MIB actually represents the evil that Jacob is trying to hold back, at the very least in Jacob’s own mind. Thats why he wont let him leave the island.

    • Wanda

      Funny, I love LOST and thought this dragged and preached. Apparently I’m in the minority.

      Listening to Jacob tell people how superior he is while letting everyone be massacred and then violently dunking Ricardus…I really hate the righteous white side. Give me the bad guys any day.

      Best part was Hurley channeling Jacob. Except Hurley genuinely is good.

      • elijahmoon

        so hurley is all pure and the only wothry person alive? and we hate all the good guys except for the really really really good guy” What if we dont know all of hurleys story? how do we know hes so good? how many homeless ppl did he shelter w/ his millions? how many hungry did he feed? doin wrong is wrong but knowing what is right and not doing it is just as wrong. im just sayin.. consider all the other 815’rs and the majority of folk on the isle. jin, bad guy killed somebody. sun, cheated on her husband. mr eko. drug lord. kate,
        killed her step dad. sayid, nuff said. charlie, addict. i cud go on.. the majority of these ppl who were brought to the isle were “headed to hell” this place has already been referred to as a purgatory in at least one episode. notice all the catholic symbolism? remember hurley said if they end up dying they go to… hell. Sounds to me like these ppl were already on a path of destruction and have been “given a chance” to repent (remember mr eko refused to?) so if they were on thier way to the hotplace anyways where can I find fault with jacob for giving otherwise doomed folk the oppurtunity to redeem themselves? remember what illiana told ben jacob was thinking when he stabbed him. she said jacob believed right till the end that ben wouldnt do it. I would think he would have this kind of hope for all that come to the ilse. he hopes/believes has faith that ppl will do the right thing. espically ppl being given a second chance after a life wasted. I cant be mad at jacob for giving ppl another chance and believing they will the do the right thing w/ thier chance at a fresh start. Id like to see hurley replace jacob but Im betting on sawyer and Im laying 10:1 odds. :p

        • Handsome Smitty

          Some people, huh, Elijah? Like all those Ben Lovers. While I am glad Ben will be able to redeem himself (in my mind only a sacrificial death will do that – for me, anyway) and hopefully is seeing the light, he is not a good person. Even last night it was almost like he was attacking Richard’s character – “I know more than that guy does.” But then, Ben had never seen Jacob and probably had his chain jerked all this time by MIB.

          • elijahmoon

            I agree smitty. What I need to know concerning ben tho is this.. did jacob actually tell ben to slay all the initiative? It dosent really fit w/ my understanding of Jacobs nature.. Although I could still excuse jacob even if he did order the hit. It would be like the prez of the U.S.A. ordering an attack against any nation that was hostile towards us. Ppl like radzinsky wanted nothing more than to murder the natives. So I think its safe 2 say the initiative could have been considered hostile. On the other hand.. If ben decided to slaughter a ton of innocent ppl at his own whim he couldnt be excused. It would be like me taking it upon myself to go kill 100 mexicans defending the border of texas. I dont have the authority to make that call on my own. It is illegal for them to cross the border but that dosent justify me acting of my own acccord, I wud be a murderer. I like ben. hes got a ton of qaulities. but hes commited some HORRIBLE atrocities. Ask the real John locke.

          • Rnail

            elijahmoon wrote: “did jacob actually tell ben to slay all the initiative?”

            No, we know that’s impossible since Jacob never actually spoke to Ben, ever.

      • In part, I felt the same way. There were some interesting elements that I enjoyed. You have to understand that the people who post here are generally hardcore fans who are going to like an episode regardless so don’t feel as though there is something wrong with you if you don’t care for a particular episode.

        What I didn’t like was the way the whole story is being reduced down to the simplicity of good versus evil, black and white which I find too one dimensional for my tastes. Maybe that is something the creators intend to explore further down the line but at this point, the story is Manichean.

        Watching these episodes, especially the last few, makes me wonder if Stephen King shouldn’t sues these guys for plagiarism.

    • I hope everyone is not “dead” that would be too clich’e. The island itself has something to “say” as well, so we see how it all pans out. Going by too fast!

      • Adam

        I don’t think they’re dead or in hell. If you noticed, the Man in Black never actually said they were in Hell, Richard did. The Man in Black just agreed with him and then used that to convince Richard he “needed to kill the Devil.”

      • Trip

        I think that they pretty much raised the whole dead in hell scenario to address fan theories. At the end, with the Richard/Jacob water boarding scene, they pretty much dispelled that possibility.

        Probably safe to cross that theory off the wall.

    • lennyg

      Great episode! No one caught the use of the Canary Islands? They are far from where we think the Island is i.e., somewhere in the Pacfic Ocean. So Black Rock was way off course! Anyway, Plato thought Atlantis was near them. How can anyone not love this stuff?

    • jovi

      WHy does she watch if she thinks its god awful?

  • Pat

    MIB is the devil. The evil that the island is trying to hold is the devil. Jacob is trying to prove that people can be good even with the devil’s influence. Once that is proven true then MIB will be allowed to leave the island.

  • Craig

    Its taken 9 episodes but the promise of answers has arrived. What is the island has practically been answered no matter what you say. The cork on the bottle 😛 (personally love that explination).

    Only one thing bugged me. How does Richard live forever, what did Jacob actually do to him?

    Was it that drink or was it his hand on his shoulder (help). My fav episode 😛

    • Todd

      Agreed. I think this was probably the most deep-revelatory episode of the series to date. I too love the cork-on-the-bottle idea. It’s the first solid answer to why MIB wants to leave, why he can’t, and why Jacob’s job is to protect the island; not to mention why the castaways were brought to the island in the first place and why Locke (the real one) had to bring the O6 back (as well as, if we can visualize a few missing pieces, why pressing the button might save the world and why they were warned not to open the hatch.) We might even see in the alterna-timeline what happens when the cork is “popped”.

      It was probably Jacob’s touch that gives the gift – we’ve seen he used that before (or later actually) (though we’re not quite sure how, yet). How he actually has that power, we’ll just have to see what he really is first.

    • Handsome Smitty

      The science behind the Island’s power (zero-point energy) is far from revealed. It’ll be disappointing if it’s only explained as a “God” thing.

      Personally I still believe an alien spaceship is the cork and when MIB flies away in it the Island sinks.

      • naultz

        I was wondering if the “dark” or “exotic” matter that gives the island its unusual properties is in fact this dark force the island is holding back. Could it be that the dharma initiative was purged to prevent the release of this darkness? thoughts?

      • Liz79

        OK, the way I think of it is like the parting of the red sea by Moses. There is a scientific explanation for how the sea could part like that, but for those who believe God is responsible in saving Moses and the Jews from the Egyptians there is a belief based in faith. The science doesn’t nulify the religious belief. I think the island has properties, scientific properties (unique pockets of energy to name a few), that enable it to keep an entity like the man in black imprisoned. I think the Dharma Iniative, completely clueless to the struggle going on on the island and to its true nature, came to the island to exploit those properties for their own purposes (we still have to figure out if those purposes were good or bad). We know Dharma found the island through the lamp post which suggests that Jacob did not bring them and therefore the were not invited. My basic point is that there are scientific properties on the island that can be manipulated. That explains the scientific aspects of the show. The overall idea of what the island is and who controls is seems more biblical. Kind of a converging of faith and science. JMHO.

        • naultz

          Great expanation liz. My only question now is: Is smokey the summation of all this evil, or is he just the guide for all the evil? meaning, is smokey all the wine(evil) or is he just the bottle breaker that releases all this corked evil?

      • elijahmoon

        r u reffering to the healing powers of the isle? i thought that had been attibuted to the strong magnetic properties of the isle? as far as eternal life and “near death healings” i believe the temple stream is responsible for those, although at present it seems to be in disuse because of some kind of contamination. surley a result of some misdeed by our mib

        • Flash Forward

          I was thinking that the contamination was caused by Jacob’s death. It seemed to happen around the same time, before the temple folk knew Jacob was no more.

        • MissMojofan

          Magnets are viewed to have a great deal of healing power. Rose, as far as we know, wasn’t dunked in the pool at the temple. Neither was John Locke.

  • MC

    thought it was a subtle hint at what the flash sideways are when the camera moved sideways when richards wife told him were already together..

    • elijahmoon

      very interesting. but if they exist in a flash sideways wouldnt she be about 170 by now? I mean she didnt get the fountain of youth right? still, i ts interesting and i think perhaps ur on to something.

    • Sylvia

      In the sideways world, Richard is dead and he is with Isabella in the great beyond.

      • striferaven

        Veery good point!

  • floridasun

    So Widmore is there to stop MIB, or help him escape? My vote is stop.
    The stories still have elements of The Howling Man, Inferno and perhaps a little of Paradise Lost. Mainly the Howling Man.
    My vote for MIB is still Lucifer.
    Jacob, doesn’t match exactlly with a Biblical character. His thinking is definitely humanist. How did he come to be keeping watch over the “cork”?

    • Ariel

      I think he might be MIB’s guy on the outside…

      • Todd

        It fits with the Widmore-Linus conflict, considering Ben’s others were aligned with Jacob. But Widmore was an other too- wasn’t he just banished for taking an outside wife or something, or was there more than that? Present-day Widmore also seemed on good terms with Eloise, who seemed to be on Jacob’s side with accomodating the Candidates (though thats a lot of conjecture)

        • floridasun

          It may make sense if we consider Widmore and Ben were contending foro Jacob’s position. Therefore, if MIB leaves the island, Widmore is punked out, game over.

        • Dominick

          Widmore and Linus have a similar set of rules as MIB and Jacob. Remember Linus stood in Widmore’s bedroom once and Widmore told Linus that he couldn’t kill him because it was against the rules. Seems to me one of them would be on Jacob’s side, the other with MIB.

          • Handsome Smitty

            I don’t think Widmore cares much about right or wrong: it may be he believes the Island belongs to him through family. It’s his inheritance.

            Much like the Jacob/Esau theory of Jacob and MIB, Ben’s glibness won him the Island over Widmore’s more domineering style.

          • Tara

            I think he meant more it was the rules of the “others”…like when Juliet killed an other while helping Kate and Sawyer escape the Hydra island, she was sentenced to death, but then just branded because Ben stepped in to save her.

          • striferaven

            I think the “rules” Widmore is referring to in that case, is the fact that–like michael–someone whom the Island is not done with yet, cannot be killed. The Island isn’t done with Widmore yet (clearly).

          • MissMojofan

            But didn’t Jacob say that “someone bad” was coming to the island? Wasn’t he referring to Widmore? I just am having an extremely hard time swallowing Widmore as a good guy. Not saying that Ben is AT ALL…but…an earlier comment expressed disappointment that this is all boiling down to a simple good vs. evil story, and I don’t think it is at all. I think it is far more representative of the yen-yang theory…one simply cannot exist without the other–also, in each, a seed of the other.

    • Handsome Smitty

      Humanist? Faith in man doing good is not humanist because “good” is defined as an absolute: Humanists don’t believe in good or bad, black and white, all grays for those guys.

      And pastels.

  • MC

    i guess i take the episode for what it is i mean there is still a part of me that doesnt believe things are as they seem between jacob and MIB… if he is really evil incarnate then what of all this talk about how he was a person and then jacob took his body.. and what does that mean like literal he looked like jacob or jacob took his physical form so he couldnt leave the island?….. i guess i believe the island is basically like an interpretation of pandoras box

    oh and anyone have theorys on the dagger and MIB giving the same speech as dogan.. was it BS just like dogans speech to sayid.. or is there really something up with that dagger?

    • Hexonxonx

      This was a different dagger, I think. This one was wider.

      • PookieBrutha

        It looked alot like the dagger Ben killed Jacob with. . .

        • naultz

          It was the same dagger as dogen had. jacob took it from richard and we assume eventually gave it to dogan

    • maina

      A (the?) dagger coulnd’t kill Locke/MIB (Sayid), but it could kill Jacob (Ben). Jacob “stole” MIB’s body and MIB is looking for a loophole to kill Jacob (and finding it in Ben). He also says he will kill all the substitutes, but hasn’t done it yet.
      My head is spinning.

      • EkoEko

        The dagger could kill either one of them, as long as the person holding the dagger does not allow them to speak. Unlocke said “Hello Sayid” right before Sayid plunged the dagger into him. Jacob also spoke to Richard before he had the chance to stab him. However, what I dont get is how Ben was able to stab Jacob despite the fact that Jacob spoke to him.

        • VeryVeryLost

          I don’t think it was meant literally that the dagger would only be effective in killing if the victim didn’t have a chance to speak.

          I think it was meant that Jacob in the one case and UnLocke in the other are such persuasive people that the assailant would likely be talked out of the deed.

        • Flash Forward

          I WAS WONDERING THAT VERY SAME THING!!!!

      • jovi

        I missed MIB saying he would kill all the candidates? Was that last night?

        • striferaven

          during the conversation Jacob and MIB had on the island (paraphrased):

          MIB: I will kill you.
          Jacob: Others will take my place
          MIB: I’ll kill them too. All of them.

    • EkoEko

      Well if you look at this episode, we see a trend emerging: MIB tempts people to do his bidding by offering something that they want extremely badly deep down inside. He manipulates people directly, using their emotions, and he is really good at acting like he is on their side. He has done it with Sayid, Sawyer, Claire, and we see next week in the preview that he does it with Sun.

      This is classic Luciferian behavior. When you look at Jesus, he was in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights being tempted by the devil who offered him all sorts of things if he would join his side of the conflict.

      • naultz

        also MIB uses memories from his targets and manifests into their forms to tempt them further. I loved the scene where smokey is “scanning” richard, with the flashes, it looked like he was taking pictures of richard’s mind. Very similar to what happened to locke and mr. Eko. It makes me think about all the times in S1 when smokey would chase the losties( but somehow was stopped by the thin,reedy trees..never got that until now), he was really just doing recon work to find out how to manipulate them in the future.

    • Tressexpress

      I’m not so sure that dagger speech was BS… Flocke did speak before we saw how the dagger didn’t do any damage. Thought Richard never stabbed Jacob, he did speak before Richard had the chance. And besides, all he wanted was Isabella. If he immediately killed the guy he believes has her (Jacob) he may never find her. I knew he’d want to ask about her before trying to kill him…

  • Barnes (#17)

    Perhaps whatever is keeping the island hidden from the outside world is what’s keeping the MIB (The Devil, Diabolus, Satan, Lucifer etc.) trapped.

    great episode

  • Buruso

    Water, that´s what keeps MIB trapped. In season 3 or 4,When Ben fought against Keamy, he pulled a clog or some kind of drain thing that slushed water out and allowed the smoke to run within the others camp. The island is a prison, maybe a prison beyond time, maybe a prison for a universe that once was and then went up in smoke. I don´t kwon if Smokey can operate electrical equipment, but he might have trouble doing it (he couldn´t pull the Donkey Wheel, for example); hence the lack of electrical equipment in The Temple. That´s why he needs someone to ferry him out of the island. Back to the prison thing. Imagine a gateway, a cassimir effect between two dimensions (I come in 1945 from one universe and step out to 1965 but from another universe, i.e.); now think about a collapse, about an endgame in one of the universes that goes amok or implodes or meshes up in a kind of nuclear-machinery-electromagnetic way, who knows how ¿Wouldn´t that universe, that soup of undead, of existence turned to dust, spread through the gateway into the other universe? In a record playing fashion, wouldn´t that smoke monster adjust between past and future or one world and another, from one track to the other? What keeps him from going away is Jacob ¿why? ¿Could Jacob be the last man standing from the blown away universe? And ¿why can´t smokey kill him? Maybe because he exists in the island for two universes, two worlds, so, a candidate will have to sacrifice one of the other worlds (the flashsideways leads us to the dimension in which the incident produced smokey, for example) in the sake of his friends life, even if in that other world he can achieve or obtain what he most wants (fatherhood in Jack, luck and ease in Hurley, redemption for Sawyer, freedom for Kate, motherhood for Claire, etc.)

    • Leo

      You make a great point about the water as trapping. This makes me wonder, then, if the island is underwater as suggested by the season premiere, then did Smokey go down with it? Is this the way it ends, then?

      • Dharma Chameleon

        What if smokey is the Dharma Shark?

      • bps

        Maybe in the end Jack simply throws a bucket of water on MIB and he sinks into the sand crying out, “I’m melting….I’m melting.” LOL

        • Handsome Smitty

          Don’t spoil it for the rest of us!!!

        • Leo

          One can only hope 🙂

        • Tressexpress

          LOL! LOVE!

  • The_Professor

    The show has played with our expectations so long, I think we’re all still not sure whether or not to trust what Jacob says. We’ve gotten used to ideas flipping once, twice, three times. But the MiB is evil incarnate, I think, who is gifted with fancy, persuasive talk. Of course Jacob can be very persuasive, too…but he also has a keen way of demonstrating himself. Ie. dunking Ricardo in the surf. Think of it as good but tough love.

    In other words, yes, I was half-expecting them to turn around the MiB/Jacob cards, to show Jacob was evil, etc., but they stayed true to what they set up at the end of last season. And the final scene with Hurley and Isabella cemented for me that Jacob is true to his word. That’s what Richard sees (and hears).

    • Dharma Chameleon

      If we go back to the finale of season 5 on the beach with Jacob and MIB.

      They are alone with no one to manipulate. Their Dialoge with each other suggests to me that they are who they say they are. MIB is interested in Killing Jacob and Jacob is pursuing progress.

      I guess that ship we see coming in on a clear sunny day wasn’t the black rock after all.

    • VeryVeryLost

      I agree that I’m not sure yet that Jacob is “good” and MIB “bad”. Surely that is what we are expected to think… at this point anyway. But Jacob is certainly manipulative and its hard to reconcile his actions bringing so many people to the island who eventually die as a result, just for him to prove a point to MIB, as “good”. Certainly not “pure good” as opposed to “evil incarnate” he calls MIB.

      They both seem to be messing with our heads.

  • BasiaK

    Yes, Jacob is dead – but one of the candidates is his replacement. Just because we – and they – don’t know who is the new Jacob doesn’t mean that the new Jacob isn’t already on the island, and that his/her presence there is keeping MIB on the island.

    And so, if there is a new “jacob” on the island, MIB can’t leave.

    I don’t think that MIB knows who it is – and there is some devil’s bargain about not killing the candidates/guardian/jacob himself…

    Perhaps MIB needs to have others kill off or destroy the candidates to get off the island, like Herod killing all the babies in an attempt to kill Jesus.

    I think Hurley’s the one. He’s the only one who’s found himself, who does good to do good, without question.

    Being a dyed-in-the-wool ex-Catholic the whole “you must have faith” scenario makes me queesy. Thinking people ask questions. And so is this why the simplest of the candidates, Hurley, is the one who is doing the most amount of good right now, because he doesn’t ask questions?

    Hurley is our Parcifal?

    • Handsome Smitty

      Quesy? Scared of a little religion? Or is it faith that bothers you so much because it’s so hard for you to look yourself in the mirror?

      • BasiaK

        That’s harsh, HS. This site isn’t about your – or my – religious views. No need to attack me.

    • Laurent

      I don’t know what you mean. Hurley is always asking questions, rarely accepts what people just tell him. It’s pretty much his one main character trait to question what or why people do stuff.

    • MissMojofan

      Well, Richard asked to live forever, and Jacob granted it. Jack made no such request…and he didn’t die when Richard tried to blow himself up…hmmmm…what if Jack has already replaced Jacob?

  • The Smoke Monster

    You guys are still trying “to figure it out”. Quit it, just let it play out. I guarantee you the writers haven’t penned it this far for a bunch of us amateurs to feebly guess it out at this point.

    Anyway, I found it interesting that Jacob could not grant Richard’s first two wishes: revive his wife or absolve his sins. That’s an interesting set of limitations, though he could grant eternal life, hmmm.

    Quotes of interest: MIB stating he’s glad to see Richard out of chains which we heard Flocke surprise him with in “LA X” Pt 2 just prior to clocking him cold. Also, MIB instructing Richard to stab Jacob before he speaks, exactly how Dogen instructed Sayid to kill Flocke, which also didn’t succeed. Very interesting to think Jacob and MIB have been manipulating people likewise over what must be centuries – how tiring that must be!

    • Trip

      Jacob can grant eternal life…on the island. The only one of Richard’s three wishes that fell under his purview.

    • Craig

      I think it goes back to the saying “what’s done is done”. Jacob cannot grant wishes which resolve something that has already happened like bringing back the dead or forgiving / correcting sins, but he can give gifts of the present such as eternal life.

      • Tressexpress

        Wow… that’s a good catch! What’s done is done. Makes perfect sense.

  • Todd

    I don’t think we can jump right in and say MIB’s the devil and that’s it; it could be, or maybe they were just using the imagery that Spanish Richard was accustomed to manipulate him (manipulation is a pretty big motif in the show). I loved the conversation between Jacob and MIB, they were like best frenemies – really emphasized that Jacob is his Jailwarden, and they’ve been hangin around there for a long time.

    Still, I’m more convinced than ever that this has to be one of the biggest reveals on the horizon: WHAT IS THE MAN IN BLACK’S NAME?

    • elijahmoon

      mib is reffered to in a lot of circles as Esau (who was jacobs brother in the bible) although I dont that hes actually been named in an episode. (i smoke 2 much) but mainly Im just answering so that I have the oppurtunity to “jump right in” here and say mib IS THE DEVIL or at the very least an associate :p

      • Dharma Chameleon

        The devil is a fallen angel. MIB said he was a man once. Possibly, Judas?

    • bps

      I believe they have not told us his name for a specific reason, and that reason is, that it is a name we would recognize as possibly one of the other characters.

    • Buzzkiller

      Aaron

  • claire.is.dead.jin.is.alive

    there was a tsunami in 1867, the year of Richard’s flashback near the virgin islands. Could this be what caused the giant wave that took the black rock inland and crumbled the statue?

    • BasiaK

      really? is that on Wiki?

    • Wanda

      Except Richard’s flashback was in the Canary islands, thousands of miles from the Virgin Islands.

      Tenerife, conveniently enough, is volcanic.

      • Pantagathus

        and Tenerife has some odd terraced ruins…

        • BasiaK

          Wanda, the Black Rock didn’t maroon on Tenerife, so it doesn’t matter if there was a tsunami near Tenerife.

          • striferaven

            I’d say that given how the Island can move around, or cause other things to move around, it’s a possibility that the Black Rock isn’t where we think it was.

  • Todd

    Oh yeah, and the Black Rock was owned by a Hanso – that can’t be a coincidence. Was he on the boat? I thought Smokey killed everyone but Richard? And if that’s the case, where did the other Others come from? (statue-builders?)

    • Leo

      Glad you pointed that out about Hanso. Interesting…

      I assumed the Black Rock arrived on that sunny day depicted in the Season 5 finale.

      • Ament

        Good point, maybe that was a different reality.

      • floridasun

        I assumed that as well. It also makes you wonder then, was Rousseau on the island before Richard? Have to look back at that episode.

        • What? Richard was on the Island 100 years before Danielle, what kind of question is that?

        • Dorf

          What the heck? Richard predated Rousseau’s arrival by more than a century. Why would you even need to check that? Richard was from the late 19th century, while Rousseau was from the late 20th century. How could she possibly have been on the island before Richard??

      • naultz

        the boat on the horizen would have taken atleast a day or two to arrive to the island. It’s like when your driving and you see a mountain in the distance and you think, im almost there. but in reality it takes an hour or two to reach it. same with the boat. also the shot from S5 was during the day, i believe the storm was that night. the real question is, did Jacob cause the storm to bring the boat to the island, or was it just a natural phenomena?

      • Ed Holden

        I’ve never really thought that boat in the season five finale was the Black Rock. My suspicion was that a lot of boats come to the Island.

        It must be easier for Jacob to get people onto the Island in the age of air travel, now that he doesn’t need giant waves.

    • Trip

      Immediately after the Black Rock is marooned, you can hear a crew member exclaim that Captain Hanso is dead. He made it to the island, but didn’t survive the beaching.

  • malatesta

    The answers are coming too fast and furious now. The pieces are falling into place too neatly–the island as the garden of eden, as a proving ground for human choice against the devil’s temptations, “Get behind me Satan.” The writers had forecast a finale that would provide enough pieces for viewers to start theorizing plausibly about what the show was about. There has to be a big curve coming.

    Could the island’s story actually have ended in Season 5 when the crew came back to the island and blew up the bomb against temptations not to do so and in acts of benevolence to avoid the suffering and death that occurred? That’s why the island was sunk?

    Season 6 then might be completely not what it seems, neither the flash sideways nor the flash to the other side?.And this is what gets revealed at the end in a way not anticipated–not a Hurley dream or hallucination in the mental institution and so forth.

    Questions: Why was Jacob so angry on the beach, beating on poor Richard as Flocke later beat on him? Was it because MIB sent in a rogue wave to wreck the homecoming Jacob had planned for the ship, wrecking his old house simultaneously–or the island’s original artefacts? (Jacob brougt the six to the island twice via wrecks.)

    Why the high and mighty Jacob attitude about no one getting into the statue unless invited?

    Who was at Jacob’s cabin when it was visited by the candidates? Is it likely to have been either Jacob or MIB? What’s a third possibility? What or who could ash keep out if it wasn;t really ash there or at the temple that kept MIB anywhere? Smokey got through the ash fine at the temple in the end.

    • elijahmoon

      r we REALLY tripping on jacob? really? did u guys watch a different episode? bcuz i cud have SWORE that richard charged jacob in a crazed state of mind trying to plunge 16 inches of steel into his heart all in hopes to bring his dead wife back to life?????? and we wanna know why jacob defended himself and then had to ruff him up a bit to bring him back to reality? ala flocke slapping claire in tonights episode.. richards lucky im not jacob. i wudnt have slapped him around and given him a swirley.. I wuda taken the 16 incher and made his neck smile.. u know what I mean?

  • elijahmoon

    its seems to be a type of purgatory. jacob, who cant be ALL powerful, as hes unable to bring back the dead (including himself) or forgive sins etc. he seems to be like a type of “warden” keeping mib in check obviously. in my own mind, that creates the newest and biggest question of all, who “commisoned” jacob. and btw i know jack dies. to save everybody else of course. what I DONT know is who replaces him, but Im taking bets. its not jack, he dies. I wish it was hurley but Im putting my money on sawyer. hes perfect for it. he slid RIGHT into that security posistion at the initiative. hows the tiltle “warden” sound to ya james? cant wait till desmond comes hammerin in, shud be a really cool and neat situation in which he appers, if these writer r woth their salt. AND WE KNOW THEY R! FUN! FUN! FUN! LOST PWNS EVERYTHING!

    • Tressexpress

      Jack DIES?!?!?! Huh? Crap.

    • Hexonxonx

      If you really know that from a spoiler, that’s not something you should be posting in the comments. I’m going to assume that by “know” you mean “I really strongly believe”.

      • elijahmoon

        yep. u got me. im not just some random guy on a couch. im an insider that has privileged knowledge as to the exact ending of the show. im not trying to exploit that in any way monatery gain etc. i decided that the best use of my inside info was to post it on docarzts blog and spoil it for all the readers. starting to have second thoughts tho..

        • “im an insider that has privileged knowledge as to the exact ending of the show.”
          But without privileged knowledge concerning rudimentary English grammar and spelling.

          • Christine (faraday’s constant)

            Hahaha. That just made my day. (The comment I’m replying to, not the wanton spoilers.)

        • Ugly Smitty

          Bullshit, Elijah. Bullshit.

    • elijahmoon

      when I said I dont know who replaces him I meant jacob. im on my mobile and its a bit of a pain. noticed I left the subject out of that sentence. oops. just wanted to clarify.

  • All great questions. Here’s another:

    In the season 5 finale, MIB and Jacob are sitting outside in the middle of a sunny day apparently staring at the Black Rock approaching the island. In Ab Aeterno we saw that the Black Rock crashed during the night time in a storm. Were we seeing different ships in each episode?

    • The Smoke Monster

      Ha, with what they’ve been doing with LOST this season, there’s no way to tell if it’s a continuity error, an alternate timeline/reality, or the writers just jerking us around ! Don’t sweat the small stuff, just enjoy the ride.

    • jamesepowell

      It is entirely possible that when we all assumed the ship in The Incident was the Black Rock, we were wrong. But I am just going to assume further that the storm was whipped up by MIB.

    • I think when they filmed the season 5 finale they (may) have intended for us to view that as the Black Rock. Now I think that even if that’s what TPTB meant for us to think, they changed their minds. And really, with the long period of time (essentially the whole of human history I’d assume), and lots of people who’ve been to the island and died (as confirmed by Jacob) what’s another ship crashing on the island. I’m sure plenty of ships have. So, basically, while they originally meant for that to be the black rock in the finale, they changed their minds and it’s actually (because TPTB have the power to do so) the red rock that we saw in that episode, not the black rock. It’s most likely an inconsistency, but it’s one I can live with.

      • elijahmoon

        yep, thats how I see it. exactly.

    • The_Professor

      One half-dozen, really. It could have been a different ship, but as I recall, in “The Incident”, the ship was pretty far off the coast. If Jacob can whip up a storm — remember, he’s the one who brings people to the island, like Prospero in The Tempest — then he probably can do it as he pleases. So by the time he works it up and the ship gets closer, it’s night. Or it gets so dark as to seem like night.

      Or it was another ship, one of the many that have crashed there. Whichev’.

    • Pantagathus

      AND… MIB certainly went and got a haircut between the beach dialog in the sun and after the storm & Black Rock wreck

    • NoOneHere

      I assumed it was the black rock in the season 5 finale, and in this episode. If you remember, people travelling from the island to the outside, or vice-versa, often see vastly different weather/time condtitions. Perhaps the nice sunny day was the perspective from the island itself, and on the outside world was a large storm and thus the wave that thrust the ship inland.

    • Adam

      It could be a time shift like when sawyer and them were in the outrigger and it all of a sudden went from sunny day to stormy night.

    • Not Enamoured

      How about the Black Rock but it DID NOT use the proper course heading and like the long assed helicopter ride taken by Desmond, Sayid, et al went on a wild ride and paid the price by landing smack dab in the middle of the island via tidal wave as punishment. Plus captain died/punished like the pilot of Oceanic 815.

  • So, after reading one of the comments above (that I can’t seem to find now) and re-watching the episode, I have an idea about how Lost will explain the flashsideways.
    First, someone made a comment about how MIB breaking the bottle of wine possibly alluded to another method of escape. I agree, kind of.
    MIB also says, just before breaking the bottle, “Sooner than you think.”
    So, onto the flashsideways. MIB breaking the bottle is an analogy for whatever drowned the Island in the flashside. It could have been the jughead, or maybe something else, don’t know.
    The flashside is the universe in which the smoke monster has escaped from the island.
    I think we will be lead to believe that Smokey is the winner in this game, but at the very end learn that Jacob was still one step ahead.

    • The_Professor

      I think this is absolutely right…but only if the Man in Black could survive the explosion. (If it’s the explosion that sunk the island. Pretty sure we’re meant to think so.) If he survived, presumably Jacob survived.

    • Ed Holden

      This is what the episode left me thinking as well. Does the Island being sunken in the sideways timeline mean that the cork has been released? If it has, does that mean that MIB is loose in the world in that timeline, and that we’ll get hints of that in the flashes sideways?

    • Trip

      What do you think that means for the Sideways world if MiB is loose there? If he is bottled evil like he was depicted in this ep, then how can every single Lostie’s life have improved? Clearly evil still takes place, (Sawyer’s parents, Kate’s dad) but lives seem better.

      Not disputing the theory that the destruction of the island likely means his escape, just wondering if you thought out why this might be a seemingly good thing.

    • NJay

      Since the Smoke Monster/MIB can evidently be imprisoned or held by water (as someone said in a previous posting), maybe the Island underwater means that MIB is imprisoned permanently rather than loose. The sideways world does not appear to be one in which Evil is running amok; too much has improved in our characters’ lives (but not everything).

      • Trip

        Thought he was imprisoned by ash (thinking of the cabin). And hasn’t he been active in the fresh water areas of the island?

        • Buzzkiller

          I thought the ash was to stop him getting in the cabin, and it failed

    • Buzzkiller

      I’ve heard a theory that the flash sideways world is where the Man In Black has escaped the island, and he will be revealed to be president of the united states. I’m struggling to believe it, but would find that hilarious. However I still think there is a chance we will see him pop up in the flash sideways world at some point.

  • Finally we got to see what Richard was all about. But did he make the right choice? I hope they reveal who Jacob and MIB really are and how they came to be on the Island.

    Nestor Carbonell did a great job tonight, been waiting to see his acting chops be revealed.

    The whole good vs evil thing still has me confused, we are to believe MIB is the devil, but I think it’s the other way around. Obviously Jacob has the supreme power cause he is keeping MIB captive on the crazy island… but Jacob was easily killed by Ben and the Island goes under water at some point (that still haunts me)!

    Good episode, still absorbing it…

    • KJ

      Yes!! Nestor! A friend and I were theorising that the producers said, OK look, sorry that whole “Cane” thing didn’t work out, but we’ll give you a whole episode to yourself.

      And so many pretty eye closeups. Delicious!

  • DeSelby

    I’ve thought of this before, but this episode confirmed its relevance to me. If anyone can find the old Twilight Zone episode called “The Howling Man” it seems to really parallel what’s going one with Jacob and MIB.

    • DeSelby

      Dammit, should’ve read the other comments a little more thoroughly before posting. I knew I couldn’t have been the only one to think of that.

      • Eko Beach far away in time

        Parts of The Howling man are on Youtube but not all of it unless anyone else knows better?

  • Chelsy

    IIO just watched the Howling man this past New Years, and basically the devil was being kept a prisoner. He made his wardens look like insane monsters who were crazed maniacs that thought he was someone he wasn’t, and even thought the man was told that the prisoner was the devil, in the end he was convinced to free him because the devil told him they would keep him there too. The devil got free and started commiting evil everywhere until the man who let him go, captured him again. The man told the maid his story and warned her not to open the door, but the episode ends with her doing it anyway. Basically, the devil is very adept at making the good guys look bad, lol

    • Ament

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Howling_Man

      I see the similarities in the story it’s very interesting. Faith over rational thinking…Jack and the dynomite. “Staff of Truth” keeping the lies locked up. Except, what could be the “SoT” in Lost’s story, if there is one at all. It’s hard to believe that someone can be that evil, it’s hard to believe a staff is preventing a door from opening releasing hell on earth. Yes I see alot of similarities in this one episode of Twilight Zone.

    • Ament

      It’s also a funny coincidence that the the prisoner in The Howling Man isn’t given a name either.

  • lockeheart

    When jacob was dunking richard in the ocean when I the only one thinking “wheres the money Lebowski, wheres the fu**en money Lebowski, wheres the money sh**head”

    • adam118

      That deserves a hi five, my friend.

      • Pantagathus

        Seriously… 🙂

        • lockeheart

          the dude abides

    • Ed Holden

      “Careful Jacob, there’s a beverage here.”

  • The_Professor

    I meant to mention this before, but Nestor Carbonell was amazing tonight. I mean, utterly absorbed into his character, incredibly nuanced acting…you could see the man he would become in the Portugese (?) speaking person he was 150 some years before. THAT had to be a challenge. Well done, sir!

    • Pantagathus

      Nestor’s acting in this episode was some of the best of anybody for the whole run of the series. He got his moment to shine and he totally stepped up to the plate! Bravo

    • NJay

      I completely agree – Nestor really did an excellent job.

    • Flash Forward

      I was so wrapped up in his acting that I didn’t even notice that it was just a back story (no real progress in the “here and now”) I thought it was a super great episode! Wish we had gotten to see more of him SOONER 🙁

    • Buzzkiller

      Was better than Michael Emerson

  • The_Professor

    Sorry to keep posting, but am I the only one who thinks the recruiting officer (who took Ricardo onto the Black Rock) looked a LOT like younger Charles Widmore circa season 5? And that his name was Whitfield, which sure sounds like Widmore.

    Just a thought. He also looked like Russell Crowe, but that’s beside the point.

    • elijahmoon

      that guy did strike a flame of familiarity but I couldnt put my finger on it. I did listen for the name and I did notice that whitmore was “nearly widmore” i immediatley checked the guy out again but I didnt see any marked resemblence. after another half second of inabilty to understand why he seemed familiar I quickly got bored n let it go. there was to much going on and to much about to happen. it will be interesting to see if we are rewarded with a revalation that hes an influential figure. if for no other reason than to repay us for the distraction they caused us. :p I just thought of something. we all know a central theme from day 1 is how we r all connected. in all the flashes back, up, down, left and laterally.. the characters always end up in one anothers path. I wonder if thats been going on for generations? like miles great great great granddad worked with sawyers ggg grandad… thatd be pretty freakin cool! what if other generations of our heros had even been on the island? like adam n eve could be jacks great great aunt and uncle or whatever.. I mean his dad is on the island, somewhere. kinda? aint he? :p

    • BasiaK

      Interesting thought that the man buying Richard from prison may have been recruiting for the island in the same way that Jacob had Richard recruiting for the island.

      Except that Jacob gave me the impression that Richard was the first person he used as his henchman, as if it was a fresh thought to have someone run interference for him against MIB.

      • Handsome Smitty

        Maybe Whitfield was working for MIB? But Jacob did say he’d brought the ship there…

    • Tressexpress

      Also, interesting that he went for a prisoner who was guilty of murder (admittedly so, though an accident)who was denied absolution and to be killed the next day. On paper, at least, he’d be an interesting study for Jacob. May explain why he was spared by Smokey when it killed all the other slaves. He was praying, after all. (like Eko?) Anyone know what he was praying? Was it the passage he was reading from the bible when the priest came in? (If memory serves, Luke? -gotta check)

      And BTW- awful the priest not only wouldn’t absolve his sins, but took his bible, too!

      • KerriBeeLost

        I think I heard him praying the Lord’s Prayer

  • Ament

    If we’re to assume MIB has a touching power unlike Jacob’s, are the people that MIB touched then “influenced” by him. I found it odd that in “Recon” the camera angle purposely showed Flocke extend a hand to Kate and she didn’t grab, she leaned forward to get up. Has anyone noticed anything else along these lines?

    • brewsterdmb

      I think that was just Kate’s / the writers way of saying that Kate is still thinking or acting on her own, and doesn’t need or want assistance or influence from anyone else….yet?

    • Flash Forward

      I noticed it! I thought it was very telling since she had been previously touched by Jacob (eventhough she still doesn’t know the significance).

  • MIBisSATAN

    So what, it was a giant wave that sent them that far inland, and a wooden ship destroyed a solid stone statue? and what happened to all the pieces of the statue?!?! ever get the impression that we’ll never know?

    • elijahmoon

      yeah that sturdy lil wooden ship that destroyed the stone statue but itself remained in near mint condtion (dont make em like they used 2) for a century n a half (dynomite n all) i dont usually point stuff like that out tho because I love my little show and I dont wanna focus on its minor little flaws. kinda like i feel about my wife n kids 🙂 I really wish theyd produce as many seasons of lost as they had of “as the world turns” or some soap like that. if they can keep that trash goin so long, SURLEY they cud break us off with another decade or two of the greatest show ever! 25 years of lost.. wow! that wud be pimp.

      • jovi

        I agree. They could have but it won’t happen. We will probably continue to see series try to duplicate but nothing will ever be the same. It is a fabulous show.

    • snarf

      yeah cos a massive tidal wave surely wouldn’t be enough to topple a stone statue

  • Germaine

    I subscribe to ‘elijahmoon’s and ‘Ament’s Observations.
    Lost really leaves me Lost sometimes, but I CAN”T STOP WATCHING!! Arrrghhhhhh!!!!!

    “Guys…Where are we?”
    “He’s Truyyin’ tah hurt mah baybee”

  • OtherJacob

    I love the emphasis on the devil/hell metaphor. Its especially significant when you think back throughout the series and realize how often its actually been used. The most significant coming to mind being back in season 2 when Jack and Desmond are in the stadium and Desmond says to Jack – “why are you running like the devil’s chasing you?”. Brilliant.

  • OtherJacob

    Did anyone else get a weird vibe from the camera angles being used on Jacob when Richard is asking him if he’s the devil????

    • The Magician

      Yes, they were particularly creepy camera angles 🙂

    • adam118

      Yeah Jake a look like “Smokey called me the devil…huh, that’s clever”

  • dksrox

    What was that original Star Trek episode where some guy has to remain locked in struggle against some other guy for eternity? What were they fighting over? If this is an “eternal” struggle, and the island is the “arena”, could Jacob and MIB be these two Star Trek contenders??? Silly connection to draw, but it made me wonder.

    Also, I can’t help but think after watching Ab Aeterno that Jacob was telling the truth about the island being a cap, or plug, between earth and hell – the dead people we’ve seen, the whispers, they all point to some “place” very close to some sort of afterlife. Also, Jacob is pretty clearly Jesus at this point: He’s fulfilling the trinity sense of Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. And wouldn’t God send his son/self to guard the gates of Hell? It makes every moralistic decision the Losties have made seem so much more meaningful in the context of their souls being at risk when they’re so close to the pit (also makes Eko’s decision not to ask for forgiveness, and his subsequent death, A LOT more significant to what we ‘think’ we’re learning now)…It also makes me me even MORE curious about what the flash sideways are. Finally, after watching last night, I CANNOT get “Sympathy for the Devil” out of my head…

    • Handsome Smitty

      Jacob could not give Richard “salvation” when he asked for it; clearly he is NOT Jesus.

      • brewsterdmb

        I actually thought more of Richard as a Jesus figure.
        Although, Jacob granted everlasting life….so…

      • dksrox

        Point. However, we still don’t know the “rules”, and how they apply to people on Island – also, it would make it way too obvious he was Jesus if they wrote Jacob giving Richard salvation or forgiveness…I guess I’m thinking this is more of an Old Testament sort of God/Jesus – the kind who plays games of chance with Satan, and not necessarily the kind who just absolves people of sin (even though he DID baptize Richard…)

        The wine in the bottle…where are they getting wine from on this Island? Nothing I saw last night leads me to believe that Jacob made his way to the Black Rock to pick up a bottle…Whereas there’s plenty of water to say, stick your finger in and turn into a nice tasty beverage…

        • Ed Holden

          That bottle of wine came from a DHARMA food drop. 🙂

      • dksrox

        Further, Jacob’s baptism of Richard would preclude Richard’s need for absolution, hence the “I can’t…” Good little technicality for them to write themselves, if real.

        • Tressexpress

          I couldn’t help but think of the dunking as Baptism… violence aside. And that’s what I thought about the absolution -a non issue after the baptism. Hmmm..

        • Handsome Smitty

          Baptism is voluntary – otherwise it’d be a sham. Jacob’s dunking of Richard was a nice metaphor for baptism – do you want to LIVE or not?

          Baptism is a symbol for rebirth and eternal life.

          Get it?

          • dksrox

            Sure, baptism is voluntary, but notice that MIB “touched” Richard in a manner very similar to the way that Jacob touched Locke after he fell out the window…I’m thinking MIB claimed Richard, and Jacob had to ‘wash off’ the influence of MIB…and then Jacob dunked Richard, all the while asking him “Do you want to live?” Since baptism is re-birth, and Richard answered affirmatively to wanting to live, I think we can see a round-about way of Richard being ‘reborn’…add in Richard’s request, and the subsequent graniting of ‘immortality’ and you’ve got the eternal life part covered. Just because they’re not sticking to EXACT Christian symbology/practice doesn’t mean we should overlook the fact that Richard was essentially baptized and then granted eternal life…by Jacob. I subscribe to the “Dogma” perspective on religion that ‘a good idea’ is better than all the silly rules and rituals that ‘the church’ has circumscribed around faith…that said, rebirth and eternal life were definitely present in the Richard/Jacob dunking scene, which leads to what I think should be a pretty serious conclusion about who Jacob is…
            So I’m not sure what I’m supposed to ‘get’ that I haven’t already said…

      • bps

        Just because Jacob said he can’t, doesn’t mean he can’t. Perhaps it means he won’t.

  • Rooky

    Did anyone else think Planet of the Apes when Richard was walking to the statue?

    Also it seems that if you can’t remove the cork from the bottle, the next best thing is to smash the bottle…

    • Flash Forward

      My hubby pointed that out when we watched it. (The Planet of the Apes thing)

  • Ament

    Great episode, things I’m chewing on till the finale.

    The analogy of the wine bottle was very interesting in how Jacob used the cork as the island and the wine as MiB’s darkness spreading. By MiB breaking the bottle, I believe means there is another way to get out, but what way?

    With past seasons combined I remember they did say Captain Hanso is dead when the ship crashed meaning Hanso was on the ship and it’s ironic that he bought Richard into slavery. In the original orientation segment shown to us in S2, they quickly shown us a business man in a window explaining quickly the Hanso foundation and the origin of Dharma…looked like Whidmore to me. Did Whidmore support Dharma?

    Richard is Jacob’s loophole. After their conversation, Jacob realized he needs to interfere without being in the loop as a matter of principle, so he gave Richard “a job”.

    Important lines from Jacob – “No one comes in, unless I invite them in” “I bring people here to prove him wrong, when they get here, their past doesn’t matter” That line is huge IMO, meaning the flashbacks of our Losties that we’ve been seeing season after season doesn’t mean anything in Jacob’s eyes, he told Richard he doesn’t have the power to forgive his sins, but his sins doesn’t mean are figuratively absolved by the island. Jacob isn’t a God, he’s a lighthouse just trying to guide the people he chooses to righteousness. MiB is the verbal cancer preventing each person acceptance and peace for what life deals them. Richard asked, before his ship were there others? Jacob said yes many and that they were all dead because they couldn’t figure out right from wrong on their own. Thats every one of our Losties lives so far…although I think Hurley figured that out when he won the lotto by playing the numbers. He’s been the most righteous so far.

    • brewsterdmb

      If the cork is the island, then the bottle is the realm of existence (or hell itself). If you destroy the reality (or hell), then the cork is useless. The glass itself is just another means of containment, outshining, in level of importance, the cork. Who needs a cork when there’s no bottle? The island may be important for containing the evil, but without the bottle itself, there’s nothing for the cork to fit into.

      • Dominick

        The wine bottle was very symbolic.
        The bottle is the container, the “snowglobe” the island was in.
        MIB says there are other ways to release the wine, other than removing the cork.
        Break the bottle (kill Jacob) and the wine (MIB) can escape.
        The bubble / snowglobe surrounding the island (that prevented people from finding the island, and people from sailing away as well) was removed when Jacob was killed, and that’s why Widmore was finally able to get back to the island. And that’s also why now MIB can get out.

  • catholicdude

    Anyone else notice that all seven Catholic sacraments were displayed: Jacob “baptized” Ricardo in the ocean to help realize that he’s alive; Ricardo tries to confess his sin in prison, but to a crooked priest (Reconciliation); Jacob offers, I believe, bread and wine–like it were a type of Eucharist to help Richardo regain his strength; Ricardo reaffirms his faith in Jacob and the Island (much like a Catholic teen would in Confirmation); Ricardo shows his devotion to his wife, sacrificing his own will to try to heal her and then to be with her again (Matrimony); Jacob ordains Ricardo with a special mission, much like priests are commissioned by a bishop (Holy Orders); and Ricardo seeks healing for his wife (Anointing of the Sick). Or, am I looking too much into this?

    • Ament

      Yes it wasn’t in order as the sacraments and I would only justify 5 of the 7

      • Ament

        Sorry 6 of the 7, last rites…unless you consider his acceptance into immortality as if dying then I can see it. Good observation.

  • l-i-v-i-n

    friends theory here BUT

    what if hurley isn’t seeing dead people. what if we find out by the end of the season, he hasn’t ever been seeing dead people. miles told hurley that’s not how it works, i talk to dead people, yours is something else. what if these people hurley sees and talks to are not dead, but from somewhere else. somewhere like the parallel universe we keep seeing in the flash sideways…….

    • Trip

      That’s really interesting theory.

      But the timelines of the sideways and island worlds have matched up to date and Isabelle lived and died in the 19th century. That being said, the writers have worked their way out of tighter corners than that!

    • Buruso

      Yes, a parallel universe that once was and now remains undead. A great electomagnetic force is manipulated forging two universes out of one; they are twins (not necesarly good and evil, maybe just right and wrong)or two halves of what once was united as one (hence the timeshifting, flash sideways, and double Ben in tunisia in the season 4 dvd and course correcting stuff, since each universe must course correct to keep up with the other). So, trough the island, the undead remains of one universe flow now and then to the other (the 108 minute button was a way of controlling this flow for experimental purposes), the flow is Smokey himself; his photographic kind of flashes are moments when he recons a person from the surviving universe with the electromagentic/spiritual remains that float within himself. Water, and its electromagnetic properties keeps this universe form entirely escaping and reaching the other universe, swallowing it to mantain balance (if you destroy halve A, halve B must also dissapear). Smokey can take up Locke or Christians body because they are dead in the island, so he matches them up with his undead in the cloud from the blown away halve. When the Losties blew the hatch construction site, they allowed the flow of smokie to surpass its 108 minutes before the button (whit its final jerogplyhs as a sign of what would come out) was pressed cutting him back; this means that finally, Smokie could plan his absolute way of reaching Jacob instead of appearing now and then as Ecko´s brother, Locke, Christian, etc. This also explains Sayids zombie like state; he is being taken up by the other, undead, MIB universe since both universes must be kept in balance (being the island the scale) and one of them, the MIB one has been wrong out or destroyed or something like it. Also, this explains why Hurley can talk to supposed dead (they are dead in one universe and undead in the other one, being the island the cross or passage between both). Flash-sideways are showing us one of the two universes while, most of what we have seen from previous seasons is the other universe. I still cannot decide which is the light and dark or simply, the A and B, the Jacob or MIB one. Maybe Jacob and the MIB are the same guy (just like the bunnys in the cassimir efect video), but one is from the remaining or surviving universe and the other from the undead (since its brother halve is still alive) universe. That´s why he so badly wants to kill him and cannot do so, thats why he talks about Jacob having taken away his body and so forth). Also, we can see how one universe balances the other (hence the scale metaphor all over season 6) in the imploded hatch -it was blown away by Desmond when he turned the failsafe key- and the atomic blowin of it before it was constructed. Both events ocurr not only in different time lines, but in different universes; there is a rift between both dimensiones, and that same rift allows time travelling from one to the other. The incident that makes one of the universes blow to nothing or to the undead state in balance with the surviving one, is yet to come, it happens in the future, not in the past, hence Jacob saying to MIB: it only ends once, everything that comes before is progress. Think about it, if you wanted to survive a worldwide cataclicism, or become inmortal, one way to go would be a parallel universe or time where you are still alive…

      • cap10tripps

        paragraphs

  • OtherJacob

    So the island’s existence is to prevent evil/darkness/manevolence from escaping into the world. I wonder if this has any similarity to the “Saving The World” results of pushing the button in the Swan. Is it possible that pushing the button was keeping more than just electromagnetism in check???

    • l-i-v-i-n

      pushing the button every 108 minutes was keeping the electromagnetism in check and i think that is all. once the button ceased to be pushed every 108 minutes it lead to the whole cause and effect chain that threw our losties through time and to MIB’s eventual loophole where he was able to kill jacob and be ‘freed’. so if that button had continued to be pushed every 108 minutes, none of those events would have ever transpired, and ‘darkness’ would be still be corked in the bottle.

      so yea it was keeping just the electromagnetism in check, or you can be more big picturey and say it was keeping that whole chain of events at bay and in effect ‘ saving the world ‘

    • The Magician

      I think they were using the ideas of hell/the devil/ evil in that episode because if they started talking about pockets of electrogmagnetism and the space-time continuum, nobody (in the 1800s) would’ve had a clue what they were talking about.

      In a sense, it was framed in a religious way in order to help Richard understand.

      I still think the show boils down to there being some kind of ‘tear’ in the space time continuum beneath the island, and the energy is a by-product of this.

  • cap10tripps

    I’ve thought for some time now that what we are watching is a metaphor for certain stories that span different ages and civilizations. That is to say we are not watching a literal god/devil, heaven/hell, or even Eden/Shambala but the place that these stories are based on.

    I don’t think that was the Black Rock in “The Incident.” Looking back that seemed to clearly take place after the Black Rock crashes. My reasoning is that Smokey sending Ricardos to kill Jacob was obviously the first time Smokey made his intentions perfectly clear to which Jacob asks, “Why.” When they had their discussion on the beach in “The Incident” Smokey says very matter of factly, “Do you have any idea how much I want to kill you?” Jacob seemingly already knew the answer.

    Just to keep the thought going, do we not see Magnus Hanso’s resting place written on Radzinski’s blast door map? Is it possible the ship we see in “The Incident” is Magnus Hanso searching for his lost slave ship? Just a thought.

    Btw, one of the best episodes of the entire series…

    • Kier

      Well the statue in “The Incident” is whole when Jacob and MIB are talking. So it would seem that the ship in that scene would have to be there before the Black Rock crashes and not after.

      • cap10tripps

        I don’t recall them showing the statue at all in that scene…

        • Buzzkiller

          They were sat right under it talking, before the camera revealed our first ‘clear’ shot of the full statue

          • cap10tripps

            Sorry don’t remember, but I’ll assume you’re correct. Strange Jacob seemed so surprise MIB sent Ricardos to kill him then considering their conversation.

  • Jacob and MIB are too rigid in their views on humanity. They are both wrong and I believe that is what Lost is trying to tell us. The character of a person is a product of a multitude of factors-their genetics and environment being the two main factors.
    Humanity needs inspiration, something Jacob refused to give before Richard came along, the results of which I might add resulted in every person who ever came to the island before Richard being dead; and mankind also needs temptation. Man needs temptation and adversity as a test to define the nature of his soul/character. Good and evil don’t mean very much without each other.

    Another interesting observation I had was Jacobs view on humanity needing to help themselves sounds a lot like the moth speech Locke gave to Charlie when Charlie was trying to kick drugs. Locke said himself that everyone had a fresh start, a blank slate if you will, when they came to the island. Jacob said the exact same thing to Richard and don’t believe that is a coincidence.

    Which made me wonder; was it MIB’s intention all along to derail Locke from his destiny, and eventually bump him off, because he knew that Locke was to be Jacobs’s successor. MIB did say that if Jacob found a replacement for himself that he would kill his replacement as well.

    • cap10tripps

      I’ve considered that exact thing (derailing John Locke’s destiny). That storyline would probably make alt-Locke what’s behind Widmore’s sub door. Interesting stuff. The possibilities within a world that contains parrallel universes obviously intrigues JJ Abrams a great deal.

      A lot of his ideas are being translated in “Fringe” as well. In that show there is a storyline regarding a father taking his son from a parrallel universe after the son dies in the universe that we are watching. It’s highly plausible a variation of that idea is going on in LOST.

      • naultz

        I love fringe. what a fantastic show. i look at it as a combo of X-files and Lost.

  • Frustrated Fan

    While I enjoyed the episode, I could have done with Richard’s flashback done in half the time it took…his Tenerife flashbacks, Richard running to the cross and Hurley and Isabella stuff could have been condensed, leaving more time for Richard to explain what has been going on the Island for the last 200 years…If this episode happened in a previous season, I would have been happy with all the detail, but being that we only have 9 hours left, I feel a bit jipped. I also feel a bit insulted that Lost fans are supposed to be believe a wooden ship, no matter how strong the wave, would crash into the top of a stone statue and decimate the whole statue except for one foot, but itself seem to bounce off the statue and land, unbroken, in the middle of the island. I guess it was a nice way to give two answers (broken statue, and how the ship landed in the middle of the island), but it felt contrived.

    • snarf

      “no matter how strong the wave” is a bit of an oversight, isn’t it?
      i mean, that was the biggest wave i’ve ever seen. most modern structures wouldn’t have survived that, let alone an ancient stone statue

      it wasn’t the ship

      • Frustrated Fan

        If the wave was strong enough to cause the statue to topple, then how does the wooden ship go untouched? So much so that all of the prisoner’s arms aren’t ripped from their chains, which are still attached to wood that wasn’t warped or broken enough for them to come loose? I love Lost, and don’t want to knit-pick at it…but like I said, I feel jipped with the explanation.

        • brewsterdmb

          Those on the boat were a part of/moving with the energy of the wave, not trying to stop it. The power of the wave itself would have been enough to destroy the statue (although surrounding trees were fine, but that could be a continuity error). OR MIB manipulated the wave in an attempt to destroy the statue/kill Jacob?

          • ryan

            as a counterpoint, how did anyone survive when Oceanic 815 crashed? It’s an impossibility. Chalk it up to Jacob protecting them… or simply FICTION

          • Handsome Smitty

            Yes, perhaps MIB’s hand the boat hitting the statue. But I believe WATER is MIB’s weakness, so hardly able to control it.

        • The Magician

          “If the wave was strong enough to cause the statue to topple, then how does the wooden ship go untouched?”

          The same way a martial artists fist doesn’t shatter when they strike a piece of board, or a block. The velocity of the object carries it through.

          Have you ever stood near one of those ships? I think you’re underestimating quite how big they are. The statue would’ve been absolutely decimated; especially if MiB had a hand in ‘pulling’ it inland.

          • elijahmoon

            EXCELLENT point about the velocity/karate magician. brilliant. really.

        • Ament

          a plane breaks into 3 sepreate parts yet there are survivors in each part, it’s “Lost” that explains it.

      • elijahmoon

        curious. u guys ever heard of an ancient structure, hundreds maybe thousands all over the world, called a lighthouse? these things r everywhere. built right on the coast. on islands in the middle of the ocean. these “stone” structures take a POUNDING. ive seen some AWESOME pics of giant waves slamming over the tops of these things. hundreds of years old and there as erect as a virgin on his wedding night. really. lol anways, the statue would be impervious to waves. It would take some blunt force to damge that statue. like a ship. and any structure if hit in JUST THE RIGHT SPOT will topple like a stack of cards. The ship was enuff, specially if it hit the “sweet spot”. But I concur and have previously posted, the black rock should have been obliterated and not in near mint condition. but I will always give my lost a free pass on something as trivial as this..

    • jacomo

      I concur Richard’s flashback did drag on forever. At this stage of the game I was expecting more and frankly by the end Richard is of very little interest as a character. A classic case of to little too late.

      • I can see your point. A lot of what we have seen the last two seasons could have been revealed a long time ago without ruining the pace of the show. Oh well, I guess beggars can’t be choosers.

  • Uncle Beaver

    If the Island is the “Cork in the Bottle, holding back Evil”, and the Island is SUNK in the sideways world, then does that mean that the Smoke Monster is now FREE?… and evil has escaped?

    • Dominick

      It’s been suggested here (somewhere in the posts above) that we may see that in the flash sideways. It would seem if “protecting the island” is what’s keeping evil contained, then the sunken island and flash sideways story would have to be a world where evil is spreading.
      Not many episodes left though to pursue that storyline in what appears to be a normal world with only a few butterly effect changes to our characters.

      • naultz

        All the losties seem to have better lives in the alt timeline, so I don’t think it is evil spreading…but the opposite. I think the island sinking signifies the death of MIB and that our losties lives are better for it.

    • bps

      What I wanna know is who is shaking the bottle, and when the cork pops out where will it land? 😉

    • Buruso

      Maybe, and the sideways world that seems so right for most of the people is an evil world.

  • Trip

    Your or you’re?

    • Iwantmykidneyback

      burn…

  • OtherJacob

    THEORY!! The statue of Tawaret is on the island because the story of Tawaret describes what is happening on the island. Tawaret was once considered to be evil. Later Tawaret was considered to be good when the god Set became considered evil. It was Tawaret’s job to ensure that Set remained chained up.

    I think that Jacob is comparable to Tawaret and MiB is comparable to Set. Jacob was once an evil person but somehow reformed (which is why its sometimes hard to tell if Jacob really is good or evil). He is now in charge of ensuring that evil remains locked up where it should be. His reformation also explains his belief that man kind is not necessarily evil, but it requires that individuals be given a proper chance. He believes that since he was able to over come it, that others must be able to as well.

    • elijahmoon

      love it! your theory my friend is 100% pure, FDA approved, all natural. organically grown, free range, unadultrated PIMP JUICE! good job. and thank you.

    • adam118

      ill buy that. Those Egyptians sure are wily

  • lostinlost

    At first I wondered why Richard would want to live forever. His life was miserable, he was mierable, his wife was dead and he was shipwrecked on this weird island with these two scary characters. I thought- Just kill me and get it over with! But then I reaized that Richard was a GOOD man. He did not want to die and go to hell. He would have no chance to be with Isabella. He wanted to be forgiven for his sin. If he lived forever he might be able to do the penance he needed to get to heaven.
    I think what really sent Richard over the edge in the modern island timeline was that he thinks Jacob has been lying to him all this time and his life has been meaningless. What was Jacob lying about?

    • jovi

      Everything! Jacob is not so good and MIB is not so bad. They are both good and evil.

      • bps

        If that’s how it ends, I’ll be sorely disappointed.

    • bps

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he called Jacob a Humanist because Jacob disagrees with MIB who thinks, “that every man is corruptible because it is in their very nature to sin.” At least that’s what Jacob said he believs. Conversely, we’re assuming that Jacob believes that all men are inherently good and just need the chance to not be corrupted. I’m pretty sure that’s a pillar of Humanism. Crazy thing is, that is in direct contrast to what “most but not all” Christians believe the Bible teaches…..that without God, men are inherently evil.

      In this light, MIB may be the devil, but at least his theology is correct. LOL

  • floridasun

    Handsome Smitty questioned the use of the term humanist. I used that term as Jacob never has made any reference to any kind of diety. Sure he has statements we can match up to certain Biblical or religious phrases, BUT, he doesn’t hold anyone to responsibility for their actions to God or any other form of diety.

    Ament mentions the breaking of the bottle being significant. I agree. Just to throw one out…what if a nuclear bomb wastes the island? No island, no place to hold MIB. Looks like Uncle Beaver went looking in similar fashion. Sure there are a lot of what if’s to go with that, but it fits the scenario.

    Not to quibble, but I don’t think Jacob granted Ricardus eternal life. He made him almost immortal. The difference being Richard was going to kill himself. That is not eternal life. He had a kind of immortality in that he would not die, at least not naturally.

  • Jean

    The name Jacob means liar. Evil is released on earth when the 7 seals are opened (Revelations). The full force of evil is being held back until then. Hurley represents goodness. But I also think Desmond does as well. Plus the sacrificial characters who are no longer in the picture. Jack’s family (dad and sis) seem to be an evil lot, along with a few of the regulars. Children don’t remain on the island — they are innocent. Widmore seems as curious and lost as the rest of us. I don’t see how we can get around this — it seems to be a good v evil ending.

    • Flash Forward

      Explain Emma and Whatshisname (the kids from the tail) who are still on the island with Cindy.

  • Dharma Chameleon

    I believe that MIB told Richard that the island was hell and that Jacob was the devil because he is most probably a catholic from the 19th century. Richard wouldn’t possess the ability to conceive of the complexity of the island.

  • Dharma Chameleon

    This just came to me. Is it possible that Richards wife that appears to Hurley is really Jacob? Maybe all of Hugos visions are from Jacob.

    When Jacob tells Hugo that sometimes he just jump into someones cab and sometimes you have to let someone stare at the ocean for a while.

    Maybe Richard needed his motivation from his wife.

    • Not Enamoured

      So….!??!?
      Isabella = Isabella (chaneled by Whoopi Hurley)
      Isabella = Jacob (To get what Jacob wants)
      Wait for it….Pan out of scene, look at large tree/Edenesque panorama
      Isabella = [dun, dun, dahhh] FLOCKE!!!!!!

    • cap10tripps

      Love this. I was contemplating those who are dead in our world being able to appear on island, and trying to figure who was really themselves and who was Smokey. Your theory is extremely plausible and works very well.

  • johr77

    humm, lets beat the crap out of Richard, when we see a knife.
    but i think ill just stand here, and take it when Ben tries it..

    seems to me it should have been over right there….

    Jacob: Richard you have a choice…
    Richard: Stab,Stab…
    Jacob: ahhh. i cant stop you, you win…. (Jacob dies)
    MIB: ahh… i kick you into fire… i win (Kicks Jacob into a fire)

    NO???

  • Eko Beach far away in time

    Not sure if I am supposed to know this (as with alot of things in Lost) But do we know for sure that Jacob and MIB both arrived (appeared) on the island at the same time or could MIB have arrived later and be just a previous “Richard” there to do Jacobs bidding? A Candidate from a different time period.

    When he gets off the island where does he think he will go in the modern world?

    Why does he have the restrictions anyway, Jacob found it easy enough to get off the island in different time periods to meet our original Losties.

    Any ideas anyone?

    Please!!

    • Christine (faraday’s constant)

      I’ve thought about that. I think maybe he hasn’t thought about that yet. Locke-ness Monster’s just trying to get out, because he’s been imprisoned so long he’s going stir crazy. Like the cabin fever from the freighter, they got so sick of that ship they started trying to get out, and when they couldn’t (or if they did) they died.

      I feel like Jacob and MIB have always been there, they didn’t arrive, they just lived there all their lives. Maybe they were friends, even brothers and maybe MIB went bad (MIB’s the villain, I’ve always thought that), and Jacob keeps him there to rehabilitate him. Maybe Jacob had the same crazy mom, but instead of thinking she was crazy, maybe his DAD was crazy (the ancestor daddy issue)

      I think that theory’s been repeated before, but that’s just what I think about it.

    • Buruso

      MIB´s leading mind (he is a cloud of smoke, souls, electromagentism and who knows what else) and Jacob are the same guy from paralel universes. They are the only guys without flashsideways because both only live on the island. MIB universes has dissapeared -he is all its energy, all its remains- while Jacob represents the surviving universe. Both universes balance each other (its actions, its events, its timelines) and the island is a scale. For balance to exist, if one universe goes to hell due to a catastrophe, the other universe most blow as well. What keeps this from happening is the Island (surrounded by water, disturbing MIB conciousnnes as electromagnetic remains), and, of course, Jacob (his other or parallel half). Hence Jacob wants to prove MIB wrong, in other words, that the surviving universe is worth sparing eaven if its brother or twin universe went awol.

      • cap10tripps

        Very interesting Buruso, but what if the island (instead of a scale) is all that remains of the other universe.

  • domcruise

    besides the terrible CGI and the cringworthy scene where Richard is talking to isabella through Hurley, bleddy good episode

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