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Rate and Rant – 6.15 “Across the Sea”

By Koobie,

  Filed under: Lost
  Comments: 413

Well there you have it, folks. This episode was rumored to answer the island’s most guarded secrets, but did it deliver? Sound off below!

[poll id=”41″]

From TVFrenzy:

  • dolce

    Everything was cool until the last 3 minutes, and then every notion that I believed that I had a grasp on the complexities of this show went out the window. That fast.

    • Charlie’s Ghost

      i totally agree. i remember past interviews with darlton that stated that the white and black stones w/adam and eve, when their true identities were revealed, would prove that they knew where the story was going all along……but i just don’t get that feeling after this episode. I don’t feel the tie back to season 1 or 2 was there. Maybe they knew that there would be a MIB and his mother and that they were the ones jack found in the caves, but you could have dictated that a few weeks ago. Not sure. I thought the episode that revealed what the island actually is and who adam/eve are, etc would be more of a ‘wow!’ episode. i just wasn’t wow’d like i’d hoped. maybe its tough to be wow’d at this stage of the game….

  • Boo

    We learned a few things in an hour that could have been told or shown in three minutes. Boo. I’m scared now.

  • sleeperawake

    Why rant? you look like darkufo…

  • zilli

    Now I am more confused than ever before. I can no longer assume that Jacob is the good guy? How can any of the candidates “protect” the island from Widmore et al? But I do get that the light in the waterfall created smokey and, apparentely, killed brother MIB, who has no name. Mother was right about that one, for sure worse than dead, or . . .

  • Eural Joiner

    I gotta say I really enjoyed it. It felt like a natural extention of what we’ve been experiencing for the past six years. It was chock full of ideas/twists/relationships that we can spend weeks unloading and it did explain a lot – while explaining nothing (which I think is an idea TPTB are trying to hammer into our skulls). In one episode you had every meta-theme and relationship from the entire series packed into a compact storyline that just left you with more questions. The essence of Lost!

    • The Man In Grey

      Couldn’t have said it better myself! A BIG picture ep that reflects (a major theme this season – put a mirror in front and behind and the illusion goes on forever) a million facets of the show. Just off the top of my head: Locke saying “These are my people,” like a certain MIB, both before becoming Smoke. And, all the family issues experienced by the characters on the show nutshelled in this one amazing ep. What I find interesting is that most people who have stated they hated “ATS” contrast it with Richard’s story which they loved. But, to me Ab whatever was more of a romance novel than an Ur-ep of Lost, which was what we got last night: The beginning of “The End.”

  • coopaloop

    Wow. What a major disappointment. Not sure what I was expecting but I feel…I’m not sure…deflated? Hope the show redeems itself next week.

    • Casey

      I feel like I sat down to eat a huge delicious looking turkey leg, but when I bit into it I found it was hollow and tasteless.

  • malatesta

    Doing this story right would have required more than one episode and answers better than: Jacob’s a mama’s boy/ MIB is interesting and daring by comparison/ the island works by magic–a magic light, a magic formula of light plus water plus wheel equals time travel/ the good guys are the guys who murder lots of people/ the winning candidate isn’t told anything about what to do–not even the magic words to turn wine into responsibility/ wine and water makes son and parent ONE–yeah we heard that one.

    • The Black Rock

      Agreed, they had three seasons to resolve this at a more interesting pace, but it all seems so thrown together as if the producers/writers were just told a few months ago that this was the final season. I saw MIB’s transition to the Smoke Monster a mile away, and LOST has never been that predictable. And so much murdering going on, couldn’t this tale have been told with more class than so much rock-to-the-head and knife-in-the-back action ? Look, it was a great episode, and yet, I’m still disappointed, and I fear the remainder will follow suit.

      • Esteban

        I completely agree with you. This episode left a bad taste.

      • I agree as well. The pacing of the show has always been an issue with me. I am always left feeling as if many of the episodes in the last couple of seasons shouldn’t have come earlier.

        • johr77

          agreed!

          • The problem is that they had to hold so many cards close their chests because if they hadn’t they might have revealed to much of the mystery and people might have lost interest.

    • Kate’s Boyfriend

      I agree, this story should have been a 2 hour episode. There are so many questions left unanswered. I wanna know how Jacob was able to leave the island to touch the candidates, who finished the donkey wheel, if no-name is now smokey why can’t he kill Jacob, I know I have many more questions can’t think of them all now. Even though I was left wanting more I did enjoy the episode. I just wish it was longer and provided more answers. For the first time I’m really worried that I’m going to be dissapointed with the ending.

      • sparafucile

        Exactly what I was thinking.

      • Naultz

        I felt the same way when Ab Aterno ended. There is so much space between when the flashback ended and our next reference point(1954). Other questions like who built the statue and what is the tie-in between all the egyption influences we’ve seen? who built the temple and was it connected to this source of light. where is the core source of the light now?

        • Widmore’s Bane

          I think it’s pretty obvious that the Temple was built on the site of the glowing cave. They were pretty much giving us that with references to “life, death and rebirth” and all the heavy bamboo surrounding it, which we saw at the temple.

          The episode contained a lot more answers than people give it credit for, they are just inferred rather than spelled out…I guess most people are expecting them to be more spoon-fed, but that’s not going to happen. And in my opinion, it makes it better that they are not.

          I wasn’t blown away by the episode, but I wasn’t disappointed either.

  • John

    Honestly, I don’t know if I can feel disappointed or not yet. This could lead into something amazing, or the glowing stuff being the main thing could be the stupidest thing ever.

  • RandomZombie

    I loved it. I was very satisfied with the explanation of Adam and Eve, and it explained enough without taking away too much of the mystery (though I’m sure we’ll learn more before it’s over.)

    My take was that the light, or the source of the light, is necessary for (or the source of) all life on the planet. When Jacob sent his brother into the cave, his spirit became the black smoke, and in the process absorbed or took on the light (or its source.) This rendered the original body useless, and that’s what’s in the cave. Jacob’s brother lived on in the form of the black smoke, which possessed the ability to take on human form, including that of his former body.

    The MIB just wants to leave the island, but that’s impossible now that he’s absorbed (or is a part of) the light – because if he leaves the island, so does the light, and, as Widmore said, everyone will cease to exist.

    Jacob must protect the light, which, thanks to his own actions, means protecting his brother, and keeping him from leaving the island.

    This continues with Lost’s idea that no one is purely good or bad. Jacob is good because he’s protecting the island for the good of the world, but this goodness is marred because it was his actions that condemned his brother to an eternity on the island. The MIB is bad because he will do anything to leave the island, but these actions are necessary because of what Jacob did to him. All the MIB wants to do is go home, and there’s nothing evil in that desire. He may not even know that his leaving would doom everyone on Earth.

    • MC

      i agree totally with Randomzombie… but here is one thing i will add… the smoke monster had to have existed before that incident of jacob throwing MIB into the light.. because the egyptians where there on the island before all of this and remember the room in dead is dead with what looked to be Anubis summoning the smoke… so the smoke had to be down in that cave maybe waiting for a body to thrown in to fuse with it? thoughts?

      • RandomZombie

        We don’t know for sure that the Egyptians were there prior to this episode. We saw no structures other than the huts and well, and no hieroglyphics at all.
        The Egyptians (or whoever built the ruins) could have come later, or the island could have done some time hopping.

        • jimmyzer00

          I think that when MIB floated into the cave, some of the evil that the island is corking was able to somehow escape, either by some reaction with MIB’s corpse or by simply slipping through.

          It took on either MIB’s personality or soul, now it can’t escape the Island until all of the Candidates are dead, which would effectively “put out” the light in the cave and eff the world up something fierce.

          Just a theory

          • Handsome Smitty

            Perhaps that is what The Darlton would argue, but as usual people are overthinking and ignoring the obvious (which is really what the episode was about): The energy – power, whatever – on the Island transformed MIB’s spirit, soul, whatever, into His Smokiness.

            Silly, but obvious.

            And now, the I-can-fix-anything Jack will FIX MIB, who in Sideways(c) is Locke, will fix MIB on the Island by transforming him into Sideways Locke and fixing him, his legs, his belief in forgiveness, in that reality.

            Lost suddenly become oh so silly.

            Silly silly silly.

          • dd

            What the hell are you talking about now, Smitty?

        • SJ

          the game the “Mother” left for MIB had egyptian heiroglyphics on it. maybe she was of egyptian origin? and passed this on to the MIB and Jacob? Jacob’s house (the statue of terawat) was filled with egyptian imagry

        • thorne47

          I thought I saw some hieroglyphics on the game piece. There is a close up on the board when they are playing as boys and you same the faintest signs of some. Could be just an easter egg, or I could be going completely insane…

      • The Man In Grey

        Don’t you think it’s possible that Mother was Smoke? How else did the early Others get purged? My feeling is that both Jacob and MIB were guardians of the Island but different aspects. “It’s not a monster; it’s a security system.”

    • sector7

      We can only assume when this is taking place. I suppose it is not out the realm of possibility for it to take place before the egyptians got there, 3000+ years ago. We assume the skeletal remains of adam & eve aged according to Jack’s assessment (but this is the island so the remains could have aged very, very slow, since island time is so whacky). And I think it’s possible that they were never speaking English — just translated for us so we wouldn’t have to read subtitles all night.

      • dd

        It’s pretty safe to assume they were never actually speaking English. Are people actually debating this?

  • I like ya just the way ya are

    I liked the episode, my only problem is that every answered question just reveals another question, just like the mother said. And they really should have given the boy/man and black a name.

    • Dr. JB

      I think the fact that his mother didn’t expect to have him, hence didn’t have a name for him, is the answer to the mystery…he never was given a name, and after watching this episode, I don’t feel like we need any further resolution to this question (although before tonight, this was near the top of my questions to be answered list).

      • Fin

        How could MIB live in the village for 30 years without a name? Seems “Hey you!” would get a little old after all that time.

      • Handsome Smitty

        Perhaps The Darlton were/are suggesting that MIB was not present in the womb until the woman arrived on the Island; hence MIB might well be a manifestation of the Island’s energy from the beginning and the motivation of MIB(Mom in black) to murder the real mother because MIB(Mom in black)uderstood that from the beginning.

        But overall that is a reach: As written/performed it would seem that she and Jacob are just truly ignorant, superstitious people whose intentions refelct religions in general, and so we get an attack on religion. That should make Fishy and others very very happy.

        Just one possible explication, not saying that’s what’s going on.

        • dd

          No.

  • Brian

    I thought this episode was very enlightening, but at the same time makes me wonder just where the heck Darlton is going. It’s too close to the end of the whole thing to be boggling our minds like this. I’m happy to see an answer to the Adam and Eve question. Not was I was expecting. But not too many questions were answered. It was a nice glimpse of Jacob/MIB’s back story, but I feel like this show has brought us back to square one in terms of the smoke monster. MIB is really dead. The smoke monster must have taken the form of his body….. SO WHAT THE HECK IS THE SMOKE MONSTER? I thought we finally got a definitive answer once and for all at the beginning of this season. I’ll be the first to admit that I love Damon and Carlton’s story telling and mysteries, but enough is enough. Although I still love this show with my heart and soul, and I still believe that this is the greatest show of all time, I’m beginning to think that it has made its last shark jump. I have felt weary about this show before, but now I am scared…. totally scared. I agree with coopaloop. This show needs to redeem itself and it only has 3 1/2 more hours (minus commercials) to do it. Good luck LOST. I’m pulling for you. Just don’t let me down.

    • DeSelby

      I can almost guarantee you we’re not getting more explanation on the smoke monster. The smoke monster is the MIB. Being thrown into the light separated him from his body. The black smoke is his soul, or his self, or whatever you want to call it, but it’s him. Just the body is dead, which we know because Jacob couldn’t kill MIB. Aside from nano-bots, I don’t know what more detailed explanation people can want.

      • DeSelby

        Unless they’re pulling major sleight of hand and Smokey is the mom pulling a long con, in which case never mind.

        • cajuncook

          That would be so effin’ epic. There’s no way, though.

        • Fin

          And they didn’t show mom taking out the village, but she was likely Smokey when she did it. I like your long con theory.

          • Handsome Smitty

            That’s what I suspected as well, but then how was MIB able to kill her? The knife didn’t work on him (in the future).

          • She didn’t speak.

        • whatsyourdharma

          Wow. I think you’re on to something. Take a look at the camera work just as she is coming up to MIB in the well – I remember thinking it seemed just like smokey’s point of view. Now I have to do some serious re-thinking…

        • richie k

          she must have been i thought, or how did she single handedly smash and fill up the well, and kill and burn an entire village? i also got the feeling claudia saw something in the water right before she looked up to see mother, and she could only be killed by a candidate.

      • John W.

        If he was separated from his body, what was that flesh suit he was walking around in earlier in the season?

        • Liz79

          We’ve established that he can appear as dead people? Perhaps when he appears to Jacob he appears in his former body.

          • John W.

            We’ve also established that Jacob cannot see the dead, right?

          • richie k

            could he just appear to different people as who they would see? jacks dad, bens mom etc?

        • Jon

          He only takes the form of the dead body, doesn’t actually use the body itself. Like in present Island-time, he’s only in the shape of Locke as the body had been burried by the beach.

  • HUnter

    I’m not sure what I think. I think I have more questions than answers given.

    • Handsome Smitty

      Yup.

  • Pookiebrutha

    The question I have is when did this episode take place? 23AD? Earlier? Later? Because they had boats. . . They had knives/daggers/ they built the wells and the frozen donkey wheel. . .

    So when did the hieroglyphics,temple and statue come about? After this episode? Or Before?

    If those things came before then it means Smokey was already on the island because the hieroglyphics in the temple show the smoke monster.

    • Eural Joiner

      Don’t forget – once the donkey wheel is in place the island can move through time and space. Why are you looking for a chronologically linear pattern for your answer when we’ve established there really isn’t one for the narrative thanks to the islands time/space hopping abilities?

    • jimmyzer00

      Maybe there have been other people who went into the cave and got soul-ejected.

    • Handsome Smitty

      From what were shown – you’re 23 A.D. comment, unless it was flashed on the screen last night when the episode started (missed the first minute, myself), was a spoiler that seems to have turned out to be a misdirection – we don’t know the year Jacob/MIB landed on the Island. It would seem that the temple and Anibus all came after Smokey’s creation and from other people wrecking on the Island. Since MIB’s “people” were all dead they obviously could not have completed the donkey wheel device.

      Eural Joiner makes a good point that the Island could have moved back and forth various times but that would only be possible AFTER the completion of the wheel. So I think his idea is baseless.

      Don’t overthink Lost any longer – that was the point of last night’s episode. What’s going on is pretty simple: juvenile writing and ideas. Somehow all the stuff in the middle, seasons 2 through 5, went far beyond in complexity with the Lostie’s relationships than what the core of the story is actually about.

      • ejoiner

        So after they complete the wheel (which happens at some point in the future we know) they go back to an ancient Egyptian time/place and the island/Jacob draws a group of Egyptian scientist and colonizers like we have seen numerous times who go through the same cycle again. They interact with Smokey and build all the stuff we’ve seen. Not that complicated. Nor baseless. And all that stuff in seasons 2-5 looked very complex because we lacked the context and back story for what was happening. It looks less so now because…we’ve gotten the answers to why it was taking place.
        What’s juvenile is not the story line but your sad attempts at trolling it.

        • Handsome Smitty

          I don’t troll. I have been contributing feedback to this site for well over a year.

          What makes 2-5 so much more complex than the actual story are the writing and characters and performances. And 20 times the hours to allow that as opposed to the pitiless, simplistic hour last night. Want to get personal, look in a mirror and fuck yourself.

          The only backdrop added by last night’s dreck is that no one – not Ben not Widmore not Richard – have really had any truth to support their actions. “Containing” Smokey has all along been a pointless exercise, although I still think there is possibly a very big unanswered question that could affect that – was MIB conceived by some Island entity not fully explained last night?

        • Drew Lancor

          ejoiner, Smitty is not a troll. He’s a long-standing member here, and contributes to a lot of conversations. You, on the other hand, appear to be socially inept, since instead of debating him on his points, you instead insult him. Grow up.

          • ejoiner

            Yes, look in the mirror and fuck yourself is a real complex perspective.

            “Lost is oh, so silly” is not a debating point about the show and that’s all he’s repeated for many of his responses.

            And I’ve seen his type on music sites, political sites and social sites. He shows up, makes vague and inflammatory remarks and then proceeds to insult the topic under discussion and those defending it (re: go fuck yourself). He may have been around for a while but that’s because trolls are hard to kill.

      • amy

        I just can’t give up hope. With a 2 1/2 hour finale I am inclined to think we are going to get our nice wrap up and answers then…all this we are seeing now is just to get us there, filler in a sense. Meant to keep us intrigued, give us small answers and then more questions so we will follow the yellow brick road all the way to May 23. 2 1/2 hours is a lot! That is plenty enough time to basically turn everything we thought we knew upside down. I enjoyed last night’s show, I am nervous as is everyone else and every episode brings more anxiousness but I remain hopeful that this show will end on a very epic note. I agree seasons 2-5 were amazing, and I think season 6 was only ever really supposed to be about the finale. In hindsight all the other episodes this season will find relevance and our appreciation.

      • richie k

        i think jorge and beth say in the script it was set 2000 years before dogen gave sayid the knife, so there’s when it was, and i guess who ever finishes the wheel, jacob himself? moves the island so egyptians somehow turn up, but i guess we wont see that now!

        • dd

          Do any of you remember the Ajira Flight? The wheel doesn’t need to be turned for a person to experience a shift in time. Adventures from various points in the past and future could have found themselves on the Island simply by having the (mis)fortune of traveling through one of the wormholes that lead to the Island.

  • Eural Joiner

    Those of you who are looking for set/logical/pat answers by the shows end should bail now. I think we’ve been given enough warning from the writers on and off the show that we just aren’t going to be left with definitive answers. Conclusions to the shows main characters story arcs – yes. The rest will be left for us to ponder as we watch and rewatch the show in the decades to come. For some that will be very troubling and unsatisfying but that’s what Damon and Carlton are setting us up for from everything I’ve picked up. There are no answers – only you can decide how to define what you have experienced. It’s all very existential.

    • dd

      There’s going to be a lot of conflict with viewers whose experience of fiction has been limited to lowbrow works that do not delve into ambiguity but instead provide a cheap and tidy story that does not ask the reader/view to make his/her own conclusion.

      • Tmax

        Sorry but what a load of crap. Are you seriously telling me that you’re quite happy for Lost to end without answering fully some of the most fundamental questions it has posited since series 1 simply so you can convince yourself you’re some kind of intellectual who “gets it”? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
        Lost, more than any other TV show has required a MASSIVE investment in time and effort. From the beginning it has not been one of these shows you can dip in and out of, miss one episode and that’s it. It has constantly thrown question after question after question in our path without any answers and even the most hardened fan (which I consider myself to be) must have considered throwing in the towel when it appeared the writers really seemed to have no real destination in mind and were making it up as they went. Yet we stuck with it.
        After all that I do want some straightforward answers and not some ambiguous ending.

  • dumb, questions answered present more questions. My real question was/is does the mother have some sort of special powers? You mean to tell me that one woman buried a well and killed 10+ people and burned down the village without some sort of special powers. I do hope they touch on what sort of powers she has and what powers jacob ha. I do believe they did hint towards something when they mentioned that ” someday you will be able to make up your own rules jacob.”

    but also i would like to note that it appears there are only a few episodes of lost left. like 3-4 possibly, due to this Quote from Jimmy kimmel’s twitter.

    “Sold-out post-Lost finale show 5/23. The best Lost-themed haiku gets 2 show tix. 3 winners, followers only. Deadline 5/19/2010. Namaste.”

    • There are two episodes left. Next Tuesday and then Sunday. Three and half hours of the show left (minus commercials). I address it in my post below (not peddling for comments or anything) but I think potentially the Mother could have experience whatever happened to make the MiB into Smokie. When asked what would happen if one ventured into the well of light she replied something to the effect of “it is a fate worse than death.” Sounds like she’s speaking from experience right?

      • And RDS says the same thing. Good on you man, I’m right there with you.

    • christal815

      I think it is possible the smoke monster killed all those people..that it was there all along before MIB fell into the “light”.May be “Mom” was a smoke monster and was saying thank you for being freed of that form of slavery..

      • I dig it.

      • Trip

        Yup, agreed. She seemed to have a very good idea of what happens when you enter the light cave and was adamant about not letting either of them go in there.

      • Handsome Smitty

        If Mo(u?)mmy was Smokey then how did MIB kill her? Obviously He is somehow impervious to the usual means of harm.

        Will you people quit OVERTHINKING a show that is so simple it is not funny, just silly!?!

        • Vlad

          he used the dagger and didn’t let her speak to him before he did it… she was the smoke monster and he freed her, then took over the job. she actually got what she wanted…. the MIB is her actual successor

          • Jayman

            Vlad has it.

          • Handsome Smitty

            Well, that’s about as silly as last night’s show. Thanks for making my point.

          • amy

            mmmm….you might have something there.

            Who else do we know that is “special” (Desmond?) and what other mother have we seen sacrifice her son for the greater good of the island. (Eloise?).
            There is so much more to this story. Three and a half hours more. That is the length of a really good movie, there is still time….

          • daveisreal

            Don’t forget, as she was dying she said “Thank-you”. Seems like she was feeling free, I also like the idea that she knew that going down the well was bad based on personal experience.

          • richie k

            got to be, with you there.

        • Drew

          Or she seemed to dismiss questions about her mother pretty quickly. She could have been the candidate and her mother went in to explore the well, which is why she would have first hand knowledge of what happens.

          • fleababe

            mom as smoke monster, this sounds right to me and i hadn’t thought of that….i was also thinking, the mother has to be really important to the writers if they cast someone like allison janney, have they used any other well-known actors who have been in film and theater? i might be reaching. how come i just found this forum after 6 years…sigh? i guess i haven’t been dedicated enough but everyone has such interesting stuff to say.

        • dd

          Did you just suddenly realize you were watching a sci-fi/fantasy story?

          • jon

            In no way shape of form is this a sci-fi show.

  • RDS

    How did Mother destroy an entire village of hunters? The scene reminded me of Sawyer arriving on Hydra Island and seeing Smokey’s destruction of Widmore’s people earlier this season. Did she have a little Smokey in her too?

  • I get the vibe that this will be one of those episodes best viewed within the context of the finished product. Or maybe I hope that. As a standalone episode billed to deliver the goods on “answers” I thought Across the Sea did an admirable job. The light is the heart of the Island, the heart of the Island eventually has a wheel put around it, in science terms the heart of the Island is a pocket of unimaginable magnetic force, turning that wheel renders the inert force active and actually DOES take one off the Island (as MiB thought) while simultaneously moving the Island itself. So as long as MiB was cool with landing in Tunisia everything would have worked out alright for him.

    I might not be thinking ENOUGH about this so forgive me, but my reading on the MiB/Smokie thing is that his body (which could have been unconscious OR dead, we don’t know which and its probably unimportant) combined with falling into the heart of the Island created the monster. MiB is now some sort of ungodly fusion of whatever the Island is made of as well as his original visage. Now it’s also entirely possible that Mother was a monster of some sort too (the destruction wreaked on the “Others” on the Island looked very Smokie ish). She seemed almost to speak from experience when she said that going down the well of light is a fate worse than death. That’s just what I took out of it.

    My only gripe with the episode is that I really wanted to see Jacob encounter the Smoke monster for the first time but that’s just my expectation talking and I can’t damn an apple for not being an orange. I liked the episode quite a bit though it had an awful lot to live up to due to the hype machine. I get why others were disappointed and don’t like it. There’s a good chance that in context with the other episodes, after I’ve have had time to digest whatever ending is coming, this episode will become brilliant. It could also feel like a sentence without punctuation. We shall see. Still VERY excited for the end, with a mix of potential post partum depression thrown in.

    • Trip

      Logical.

  • brothers, i knew it!! and the crazy mother…

  • Desi’s Brother

    WTF WAS THAT! Ok, that was the biggest jump the shark moment in TV history. That was Battlestar Gallactica Finale territory right there.

    How can you anyone think that was good?

    I just don’t even know what to say about that. This is what LOST is in the end. I think that is really sad. It makes me long for the days of Dharma and pseudo-science. Can we get a scientific explanation PLEASE!!!!

    So that answered NOTHING. There …is a glowing light on the island??? (The Hatch location??) Sending a dead person down the hole makes them turn into the smoke monster….um ok. WTF?? (or releases the smoke monster) WHY??? How is that an explanation!!!!!! Who was that MOTHER? Is the point that this cycle just goes on and on. Jacob was her candidat and MIB liberated her by killing her. I’m just really bothered by this episode. Why should we care about this woman who we have never seen before, or frankly Jacob and MIB who we don’t really know. How did these seemingly pastoral people figure out that building a wheel would do anything at all? This episode was super Cheese.

    Ok, I guess I just have to go with this and accept that this is what LOST is…

    So are we to presume that the “CAVE of LIGHT” is the location of the HATCH? That would seem to make sense, although the Hatch was not over a river as far as I can remember.

    So essentially Jacob’s brother is dead, and he was just a body for the smoke monster essentially. That is interesting. But then what is going on with his taking on other people’s bodies, and why does he think he can leave the island when he is a smoke monster?? Is he just delusional?

    I’m just not into this supernatural stuff, but I guess it has been there since the start with John Locke’s stuff. But this episode even made an ass out of Locke for calling them “Adam and Eve”! What a fool! All these years we’ve been … See more wondering who Adam and Eve were and they were people we didnt’ know who were crazy-fake-mother and MIB-son! Interesting that Christian Shepard’s “missing body” ends up in the caves where the MIB’s body was laid to rest.

    Was Aaron supposed to be the “new Jacob” and MIB got him off the island? Would Claire have ended up like Claudia? And WHY did she suddenly start speaking ENGLISH???? Was that supposed to be interpreted as a narrative device? Like the language doesn’t matter?

    AHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • The Cave of Light was more likely NEAR (not over it or next to it) where the Orchid was built. At least that’s what I’m guessing.

      They started speaking English (as Alan Sepinwall points out) in Hunt for Red October fashion so that we don’t have to read a stupid amount of sub titles. Also Alison Janney’s American accent was a little thick so I think we’re all better served with the way they did.

      So instead of Adam and Eve it’s Cain and Eve and Locke, who dubbed their bones Adam and Eve, eventually becomes Cain. That’s not kind of cool to you?

      The other stuff I can’t really help you on. I liked the episode, I’ve liked what’s been happening but that’s my taste talking, my taste isn’t better than yours and I’m really uninterested in getting in a debate over why this episode was good TO ME versus why it was bad TO YOU. I hope maybe what I wrote above helps to make Across the Sea a better experience for you.

      • ejoiner

        Well said Ryan – I’m thoroughly enjoying the meta-narrative of this season while others (ha ha) are seemingly not enjoying it for picking through the minutia of mysteries/answers from over 100 episodes of narrative. It’s like the forest/trees perspective. But, as you said, everyone has their own tastes.

      • The light cave wasn’t near the orchid. The orchid well contained the wheel which at the time of the episode MIB was constructing.

      • heythereyourself

        I don’t think the writer’s all the sudden didn’t want us to have to read subtitles. They have never done that before I don’t know why they would start now. It’s not like the scene was very long. I think the lady on the island, just like she knew the pregnant ladies native tongue also knew that the pregnant lady could speak English.

        • Read what DeSelby wrote a few posts down.

          • heythereyourself

            I would have to watch the episode again, but it again what is the point?

    • jraehol

      Wow, how do you watch any tv–especially Lost–without the ability to suspend your disbelief?

      • Dr. JB

        how can we watch this show without suspending disbelief…there is a monster made of smoke (that is summoned by draining an ancient toilet bowl underneath the Dharma barracks) that flies around an island that jumps through time, and there is a frozen donkey wheel buried beneath the surface that when turned, makes the island disappear and spits the person out into the Tunisian desert!

        • jraehol

          Wasn’t that my point?

        • jon

          The thing is, it’s poor form to introduce new suspension of beliefs in the last chapter. I can’t think of a single good book or movie off the top of my head where you get tossed new magic that needs to be true at the end of the story. And where they’re at now, either they need to introduce this fantasy story at the end, or even worse, they are introducing new characters and story lines in the last chapter. It’s just poorly written is all.

      • jraehold’

        You can suspend your belief without suspending your ability to think. Sometimes in this world people aren’t going to agree. Stick to making valid counterarguments and avoid the editorials.

        • jraehol

          Wow, Mack, you are just dripping with condescension and contradiction. You say people disagree and then you bitch because I disagreed with someone. Who asked you, anyway? No one needs you policing the thread, making sure everyone stays on point (more specifically, your point). You aren’t our goddamn debate teacher so mind your beeswax.

    • DeSelby

      Dude they used exactly the same narrative device in the Sayid flashbacks since season 1. They’re speaking Arabic until the camera pans behind Sayid’s head and suddenly it’s in English. It’s not new, and you don’t want to watch American actors trying to act while saying words they have no understanding of at all.

    • Trip

      Man of science?

    • Widmore’s Bane

      The cave of light is probably where the Temple will be built, thus the thick bamboo all around it. No where else on the island have we seen thick bamboo before, that I can recall. And it explains the signficance of the Temple.

      The light is the electro-magnetic energy that has been at the heart of the show for several seasons now. Obviously, a person in ancient times would have no scientific context for it, but would view it as some magical force.

      How it turned MIB into Smokey will likely never be answered. Some combination of the protections that “Mother” placed on him combined with the inherent nature of the energy perhaps? It doesn’t really matter…the point of the episode was character development, not to answer every little nit-picky piece of lore. You’re missing the point of the story by focusing too heavily on these details and setting yourself up for disappointment.

      Sometimes knowing the details somewhat ruins the story (i.e midicholrians being the source of the “Force” in Star Wars – I could have done without that).

      If you paid attention there was plenty inferred that answered a ton of questions. Even little things like why Ben poured water down a hole to summon Smokey can be linked to MIB’s theory about using channels of water to move the energy around the around the island.

      Also, MIB clearly can affect matter in the present. Who is to say he didn’t finish the well himself and put the wheel in place, only to be unable to use it. We don’t know, but we know enough to infer that he ultimately got someone to do it, if not himself. But the entire point of it all was to say that he created it as a way to try to escape…an exit point that ultimately led to Locke leaving, returning, and giving MIB a possible way off the island via manipulation of the other characters to kill Jacob and help him leave.

      The episode gave far more than you given it credit for, but you couldn’t see it given you were wanting it handed to you.

      Oh and BTW, I thought the end of BSG was perfectly fitting, and a nice twist.

      • jon

        For clarification, light exists without electromagnetism and vice versa.

  • Samuel

    Hey did anyone else notice the Fonz on a surfboard jump that river? What a letdown it’d official now Lost season six is a complete letdown

  • Jackisjack

    So it’s official, everyone written in the show has parenting issues. If mommy dearest IS a smoke monster then her death was exactly what Dogen wanted Sayid to do to Flocke. Stab before speaking…it works.

    • Professor Askew

      Exactly.

    • Irma

      I was thinking along these lines too. But does that mean it doesn’t matter that she spoke to him down at the future orchid (before she knocked him out cold)? And if she was smokey, does that mean that she was both the evil smoke and the protector of the island simultaneously?

      • HollyP

        That would make sense. She wasn’t expecting twins, and appeared shocked when she saw the second baby (BIB). Thus the split between protector and smoke monster.

  • MsDee

    mom is smoky. the twins birth was her chance to have a rebirth of her own. she favored mib from the start.she treated him special she had planned to orchestrate his demise. she was tired and thanked mib for killing her now she could use mib and get off of the island.was she protecting the light or watching to make sure it didnt come out because light covers darkness, good and evil, black and white, jacob was good and inapable of lying she could not use him but Mib was not so good

    • Pat

      WINNER

    • RandomZombie

      I like it!

    • Jackisjack

      Makes sense, it puts meaning behind MIB taking over Locke’s body. Locke thought he was the chosen one of the island, not knowing he was chosen to die or be sacrificed as MIB sorta was.

    • Ed Holden

      That nicely explains why both MIB and the Mother have the same line: “They come, they fight, they destroy …”

      One thing it doesn’t explain, though, is why Smokey can’t kill Jacob. We’ve been led to think this is because of “the rules” that apply to Jacob and MIB. But if Smokey is the Mother and not MIB, the rules should not apply to her.

      One way or another, I think Smoky is tied directly to the Light in some critical way, and that is why Jacob, Widmore et al are adamant about keeping him from leaving the Island. If he leaves, the Light leaves as well.

      • Ed Holden

        Also, why does Smokey want to leave the Island, just like MIB did before Jacob killed him, whereas the Mother didn’t want him to leave. I liked this theory when I first read it, but now I’m not so sure it fits the story.

        • MsDee

          I thought about the mother not wanting to leave also but then I dont remember her ever saying she didnt want to leave. I could be wrong. Maybe she did say it. I remember her telling the MIB there was nothing out there

  • ninjaraiden2k

    Yeah. Let’s say Lost jumped the shark about being quasi-mystical. Because a smoke monster that kills people and crippled men mystically walking again in first season DID NOT set up any precidence for the spiritual musings that would follow.

    If Lost “jumped the shark”, it did so in the season one finale…

    • Trip

      Well said.

      • Desi’s Brother

        I think many of us over the seasons have imagined that there could be a pseudo-scientific explanation for Smokie considering that he does make crazy computery scans of people’s memories. The fact is, LOST chose to go mystical rather than pseudo-science. Mystical is so unsatisfying and is frankly a lot easier because you can get away with absolutely anything. I would rather have seen some kind of future civilization who created Smokie or something. At least if LOST had gone pseudo-science it would require logical consistency.

        • “Mystical is so unsatisfying and is frankly a lot easier because you can get away with absolutely anything.”

          Agreed. You can get away with anything while also not having to explain anything either.

  • Pat

    THIS IS A SCI FI SHOW! People expecting scientific answers are being ridiculous.

    • trebuchet

      hm… well yes it has, what bothers me is not the sci-fi (these elements have always been present in Lost), but the fact that the the show is more and more dwelling into the Fantasy kind of storytelling. This is not what I signed up for. The magic cave with the magic light? come on! This is Lord of the Rings and not Lost.

      Bring back Dominic Monaghan and throw in some more hobbits for the final episode.

      The magic cave with the magic light explains everything. Just silly.

      • MsDee

        Maybe the “magic light” will be scientifically explained. perhaps mom being primitive would think it is a magic light but it could be the electro magnetic properties of the island manifesting itself in that matter or effecting something else which would make the light the result of the EMP but mommy dearest thinks it’s magical.

    • Handsome Smitty

      SCI-FI, much to Harlan Ellison’s disgust, means “SCIENCE Fiction.”

      • heythereyourself

        That’s correct however you stressed the wrong word science FICTION.

        • Shaun

          No… I’d say both the SCIENCE and the FICTION are of equal relevance, but Lost has clearly decided to forego the “science” part of it all… A shame, because now Magic Jacob cna spread his pixie dust wherever he wants, to do anything he wants, and Darlton doesn’t have to explain a damned thing. As techno-babbly as the latter day Star Trek shows would sometimes get, I’d really appreciate a psuedo-scientific approach to explaining all this Jacob/MIB craziness.

          Of course, I’d also like an explanation of the damned “rules” we keep hearing about too… Who made them, and how? Where did the fake mom come from, and does she have some weird powers of her own? Why does Jacob have all these, seemingly limitless powers but MIB apparently did not? Why did she say she made it so they could never harm one another, but Jacob could clearly harm MIB? Why did she give a crap about MIB leaving? Why is it OK for Jacob to leave, as we’ve seen he can do? How did fake mom kill that hwhole village? Who the hell is Smokey if the actual (still nameless MIB) died? Was the mom Smokey? Oh, and great explanation of the donkey wheel… So, if we stick this in a cave wall it’ll control the water and light and then we can leave!! Sheesh.

          I could go on and on about all the gaping holes this episode left us, but what bothered me most was the overall theme about IGNORANCE vs. KNOWLEDGE. Jacob was a good little soldier who blindly believe everything his “mother” told him and did whatever she said. And Jacob=good. The Brother was curious about the outside world and questioned what his mother told him. And MIB=evil. Really, LOST? Is this what you’re all about? Blind adherence to authority leads to happiness and goodness, and curiosity and questioning lead to unhappiness and evil?

          I’ve said all season long that if this thing came down to some spiritual woo about absolute good and absolute evil, I was going to be pissed, since I don’t believe those things actually exist in the world. But this? This is WORSE. This is about adherence vs. rebellion, ignorance vs. knowledge, self-denial vs. self-awareness.

          I know it’s just a TV show, but I’m furious. The more I think about it, the angrier it makes me.

          • Rams

            Jacob became “enlightened” drinking the incantated wine- so I’m going to assume he acquired some special knowledge when he did, and he’s not blindly believing what his mother told him.

          • trebuchet

            I could not agree more. I also know it is just a damn TV show, but season 6 has been a great let-down, at least to me.

            Jack’s dad walking on the Island? Great!
            Locke can walk again? Great!
            Ben turns the Frozen Donkey Wheel, moves and leaves the Island? Mind blowing! I loved that S4 finale.
            Jacob is a creepy guy in a cabin that moves, and no one can see him? The Man Behind The Curtain stands above a lot of Lost episodes, I love it.

            Since season 1, these things have really hooked me on this show. LOST is my absolute frakkin favourite show of all times. Somehow, I love these unanswered questions.

            BUT THIS???!!!

            I love the sci-fi elements of this show, it really enriches everything like good cheese on a pizza. If this show would have been Castaway – The Series no one of us would have watched this show. Let´s be honest about this.

            I really do not want to spend any time discussing: “what would have happened if she spoke before he stabbed her”, “maybe they built the well before these egyptians showed up”, “what if the hieroglyphs are because the Others hired some guy from Cairo, maybe that flatmate that Sayid had in “The Greater Good”?”, “Will Sawyer and Kate end up together?”

            It does not matter.

            We have 3 hours left, and they will have to wrap up this show. As good as they can.

            But please, PLEASE, no EWOKS!!!!

          • dd

            Shaun, I think you’re missing the whole good vs evil argument and the qualities by which we should assign those ideas.

        • jon

          Barring some miraclulous story telling in the next 3.5 hours, the show is fantasy, not science fiction. Unfortunately, it looks like they only made that decision when they started writing season 6, and seasons 4 & 5 have pretty much no use for the actual story. And you can disagree with me, but just let me know what alternate realities has to do with the island myticism when you do, because (and again, barring some miraculous storytelling) it really appears to be completely inconsequential. The same moral dilemas could have easily been presented with just trying to escape the island the first time.

      • MsDee

        the science/faith has always been a theme from the beginning so why is everyone surprised that a lttle bit of supernatural happenings are intertwining witth science

    • Rams

      The is a Science fiction AND and Fantasy, right from the beginning. I don’t need to go into the sci-parts right now, but Hurley’s numbers-curse, and how they turned up everywhere, is in no way Sc-Fi. While S 5 explored the Sci-fi roots of the show, S 6 is expanding on its fantasy aspects.

      I don’t think the Light-cave explanation worked very well, but clearly that woman, living in that millenium, would not understand exotic matter and electro-magnetism. This does not negate the magic-wine, but it certainly doesn’t erase a scientific reading either. One can be both a Man of Science and a Man of Faith, and perhaps that is why Jack is better suited for ending things once for all.

      • Kaisa

        So was the light in the tunnel caused by exotic matter? The same that Dharma was after? True, Lost is both science fiction and fantasy/magic, but the sci-fi part interests me more…

        • MsDee

          sorry i replied before reading the last two comments

        • CSLewisFan

          I’m sorry, but sci-fi doesn’t necessarily connote plausible scientific reality. Science fiction is a storytelling genre, not a field of study. I’m sure you know this, it’s just a reminder. Just reference this definition from Answers.com:

          science fiction-n.
          A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.

          • Rams

            Excellent point!

          • jon

            This show isn’t sci-fi in any way. Pure fantasy. The science stuff they tossed in has nothing to do with the core themes, wasn’t needed for character development and was a waste of time.

  • Chris

    1.- If MIB/smokey died (became the smoke monster) and everyone on his village was killed by mommy then, who built the wheel finally?

    2.- IF mommy was a smoky too, why could MIB kill her but no one has been able to kill him?

    3.- We´ve been told for 6 years that the properties of th island are relates to electromagnetism, so, is electromagnetism the source of life?

    4.- Totally get the fact that not everything will be answered. but there are some crucial topics, and hoy can “i know that turning this wheel will make water and light move this island BECAUSE I´M SPECIAL be an answer?.

    Could write a lot more of new questions and unanswered things, the point is that, despite the fact that we have some proofs that things haven´t been written on the way, but been thoughtfully planned (having showed ud adam and eve in the first season means they knew what the end woud look like) it seems like some fundamental things wont be explained, at least we find ourselves with two extremely spectatular new episodes, let´hope that´s the case. Eaven though i´m a little bit dissapointed and scared, we can not say everithing is a letdown until the end.

    • heythereyourself

      This is fiction, correct? You actually want a scientific explanation of how turing a donkey wheel in a well filled with light moves a massive island in time and shoots a man out in Tunisia? Really?? Are you looking for clues as to how to finish building your “flux capacitor?”

      • The Mantis

        Ha. …Flux Capacitor

    • Handsome Smitty

      ref 3: “Electromagnatism” is a term used by Dharma and others. Doesn’t mean they are correct. I call it zero-point energy because that was necessary for creation/universe/reality to occur. In other words, total violation of Newton’s Laws of Energy, where energy creation requires energy and is enthropic. For me, I hypothosize that “gravity” – still unexplained as an energy source – is this zero-point energy, something that is capable of infinite energy production. I suspect it radiates some type of radiation that is positive rather than the radiation that stems from fission.

      • Vince

        Shut up

        • dd

          I agree. This dude is going on like Monique’s weak feminism.

    • MsDee

      Did anyone else think that showing a clip of kate and jack in the caves discovering adam and eve was a waste of time. I think if you are watching the last shows you know that, was that meant for lost fans because it wasnt necessary and a bit condescending or was it meant for the newbies, I doubt it

  • Crow

    MIB is not necessarily Smokey. Remember, Smokey (at least by its own admission) can only take the form of dead folk. When it took the form of Locke, it seems to have taken his memories as well. So Smokey could, in all the scenes we’ve seen, just be in the form of MIB. Tossing MIB in the Light Cave didn’t, again, necessarily release Smokey, they just might have not seen it before. Would make more sense of Smokey being the one who trashed the well/village than the Mom. Maybe she had some sort of control over Smokey. Way back when, Ben said it was a security system and he “called” it to come trash all the mercenaries, so that might play into it.

    Interesting that Mom didn’t seem to age, but MIB didn’t have a problem killing her. Are they “rules” or more “guidelines”?

    Definitely some more questions (donkey wheel not finished, so who finished it; what is Smokey really; why don’t Jacob and MIB age; where did Jacobs powers [i.e. giving immortality to Richard] come from; why can Jacob leave the island but MIB not) but I don’t expect them all to be answered. Like any good story, you don’t get EVERYTHING, just the important bits (tho I suppose what might be important to Darlton might be different to some others).

    • Chris

      in that same episode when ben called the smoke monster he pulled some sort of “cork” or plug and released the water from a littke fountain, interesting since we´ve seen today that the smoke monster “lives” in the main fountain of the island

      • Crow

        AND Smokey always seems to go underground in some form or fashion…

        • Chris

          maybe the protector AND smoke monster are meant to protect the island, remember that smoke monster alwys kill people trying to harm the island, the only difference being that human-protectors can be killed and smokey can never die (since it´s not physical being) that´s why becoming it is worst than dead???, Lost is all about there´s good and evil between all of us, so it would make sense that it´s not realy a war but a necessary dependence of light and dark for both to survive.

          • Drew Lancor

            How did Eko harm the island? How did the pilot, Seth Norris, harm the island? Smokey has not killed that many people over the course of the series–in fact, he’s killed only a tiny handful of people, and at least two of them were not harming the island.

          • icy_one

            Drew: Perhaps Smokey’s purpose in un-life is to eliminate bad people. The criteria of course are left up to him. His job, although he doesn’t seem to know it, is to pave the way for the next protector.

          • Handsome Smitty

            Jeezuz, people – MIB/Smokey is evil/bad because he wants what he wants and is willing to do anything to achieve that. And I suspect that he was an original manifestation of the Island as well.

          • HollyP

            Smokey has killed more than a handful. He did kill the crew & “passengers” on the Black Rock, with the exception of Richard. He killed Ilana’s buddies, and the Others at the Temple who didn’t leave with him.

          • trebuchet

            @ Drew Lancor:
            Eko did not harm the Island, the actor wanted to get out of the show for personal reasons. I thought a lot about Eko and the way he had to be “judged” by the monster, because Ben returned to the Island and had to be judged by His Holy Smokeness as well for breaking the Rules. I think his death was important for all of these reasons.

            But at the end of the day, it was just the actor who did not want to be in Hawaii anymore. Just like ABC did not want Cynthia Watros on the show after she got caught DUI. Michael shot her.

            The Pilot was killed because JACK was going to die in the pilot episode. Michael Keaton was going to play Jack – and be smokie-food. But ABC did not like the idea that a female (Kate) would lead the Losties – so they killed the pilot instead of Jack. They had NO PLAN AS TO HOW THE SERIES WOULD END – by throwing in this episode they want to show us they indeed did have a plan, since they introduced Adam & Eve, but did not explain why Jack said that the skeletons where 50 years old and this episode said they where a lot older.

            I really, really want to jump on the train of all you fans who say “the finale will make it all worth it, looking back, Season 6 will be the best!” but I have a hard time doing that after watching this episode. sorry.

          • Handsome Smitty

            The only ‘judging’ Smokey/MIB did of Eko was could he be used the way he used Ben and Sayid.

            He couldn’t and so died. Yes, the actor wanted off the show, but the writers provided a logical ending – as much as there can be logic to this silly humanistic tripe.

    • Crow

      Ugh, and, does it mean that NO ONE can be “Jacob” since MIB broke the bottle with the funny juice in it (remember he broke it back several episodes)?

      • jimmyzer00

        I bet the stuff in the bottle mainly got it’s power from being mixed with the cave water and having magic mumbled over it.

        • Dharma Chameleon

          Does anyone know what the Crazy Mother said when she blessed the wine? Also, I wonder if Jacob made a similar blessing when he gave Richard eternal life.

    • Wanda

      The MIB was able to kill her because he used the right knife/sword. Just as Ben was able to kill Jacob.

      I loved seeing Locke in the MIB/BiB. Spearing boars, being special, throwing knives, playing backgammon. Locke really was reincarnated somehow.

      The light in the river reminded me of the Ring Cycle. Still waiting to meet the walkure, or the niebelungen.

      • heythereyourself

        Don’t want to get to into this, but MIB i think killed his “mom” with a spear and anyone was able to kill Jacob the whole time, except MIB, so he conned Ben into doing it using Locke’s body, that was the “loophole.”

        • HollyP

          I agree. Getting someone to kill Jacob for him was the loophole. Smokey just needed the right combination of circumstances… the form to get invited into Jacob’s presence, and a living person who is easily manipulated.

          • trebuchet

            Yeah, maybe the MIB is a vampire

    • MsDee

      What if….mom and MIB are the smoke monster/s. A couple of times I have seen what I thought to be two smokeys and more thanonce i remember seeing it split into two smokeys

  • Lost815

    Wow this episode was beyond cheeseball…looked like a christian tv special. Poorly acted and written.

    • erikire

      word!

  • goodness, more questions than answers inj this ep. looks like smokey came first and has always been a part of the island.

    but why would smokey want jacob to protect the island? is smokey crazy with mib feelings and thoughts of wanting to leave the island?

    mom was smokey? mib died, smokey took his likeness. jacob drank wine and got power.

    uggg, my head is still spinning…

    ya know, at some point in the late 70’s the island is under water!

    • The Mantis

      “ya know, at some point in the late 70’s the island is under water”

      What? No offense, but everytime you post something I laugh.

      • trebuchet

        didn’t you know? flight 815 crashed in 1979, right before Charlotte was born 🙂

  • erikire

    It was the most boring episode of the season!

    • Trip

      Obviously you missed What Kate Does…

      • Handsome Smitty

        Give it up, kHater. While that ep was weak, the writing was not the tripe we got last night.

        • Trip

          Maybe the writing was better, but the story wasn’t.

          Also, please don’t lump me in with the boys only club fanboys…Kate has suffered from tragically bad character development from season one and has since suffered the consequences (ie. fan disdain/indifference). I am just playing the cards that I was dealt.

  • minnie swirl

    No matter what the writers do…they’re doomed. I hope they have thick skins.

    • Handsome Smitty

      Easier to have thick skin when you’re worth tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars.

      They’ll get over it….

  • Dharmafolk

    I’d rather watch”Expose” than this pile…

    • shieldwolf

      Expose is genius. The episode everyone hates Nikki and Paulo for is the one where they are smart girl and take a sh*t guy. Expose by contrast awesomely killed them off with a wicked spoof of 80’s detective shows – Razzel-Dazzle!

  • donuteyes

    what do you people want answered? not everything has an answer! for example, vampire stories have been popular for centuries, but not all of them give a detailed explanation of why they exist, etc. it’s a fictional story, try not to take it so seriously that you no longer enjoy it…

    • Jackisjack

      I agree not everything can or will be answered. It’s the curiosities they present in almost every episode with a dead end, feels like continuous finger flicking the back of your ear.

    • Chris

      the difference is that vampires stories excitement lies on mysterie and they gave no endings, lost is a narrative story with an end, what we don´t get explained in the serie we will never know, and it´s not irrelevant details what we´re not getting answered, it´fundamental questions. If we care about this is because we´ve enjoyed the show for 6 years and we really need to be satisfyed bout the ending of all those hours spent on this magnificent program.

      • jimmyzer00

        The characters’ stories will end, yeah, but that has nothing to do with explaining why the Island is the way it is. It’s a mysterious fucking island that moves around in space time, you knew what you were getting.

        • ejoiner

          Exactly!

        • johr77

          then that would make a cause for a spin off….. the next candidates…

          that cant happen as it was said the story would be finished and there would nothing more to tell…. and no spin offs.

    • Donuteyes-

      Stop with the editorial. People want answers because they have invested a lot of their time with the expectation that they will get answers.

      • donuteyes

        mack-

        kiss my ass. it’s a comment thread, if i can’t editorialize, what can i do? whine about ‘unanswered questions?’ the show is about the survivors of 815 first and foremost, and then the periphery characters that they’ve encountered. it’s called LOST, not ISLAND. we’re going to find out what happened to jack, kate, etc. but i think the producers have made it clear that some things won’t be spelled out for the audience like a third grade writing class.

        like jimmyzer00 said above your comment, “The characters’ stories will end, yeah, but that has nothing to do with explaining why the Island is the way it is. It’s a mysterious fucking island that moves around in space time, you knew what you were getting.”

        exactly!

        • So you decide to whine about other people whining. And then you whine about being called on it. What a construction use of time.

          • donuteyes

            i’m not whining (and i didn’t say that you were either, but now you seem whiny). i’m setting you straight on the point of the show. you want the show to be about a metaphysical island, but it’s not. it’s about the people that crashed on it. it’s okay, you’re one of the many people that just doesn’t seem to get it. better luck next time!

            …and i’m terribly sorry if you don’t think my comments were a “construction use of time.”

          • Donuteyes-

            “i’m setting you straight on the point of the show. you want the show to be about a metaphysical island”

            I have no idea where you got the impression I was saying this from. I never said that at all. And for the record, you are whining and now lying about what I said. Better luck next time!

        • wahsdarb

          If an artist draws a drawing of a dog and then has to write “dog” under it, then it really isn’t art is it? Artist/writers are not omni-everything either, they can still draw a crappy picture of a dog, but they can still provide an editorial/perspective worth interacting with. I think the overall plot of Lost provides a good medium for interacting with our own thoughts/struggles with life, death, good, evil, and even God, but, like you say, I don’t think the writers are going to “spell out for the audience” their meaning of their story because doing so would be like writing “dog” under a drawing of a dog.

          • No one is expecting to be spoon fed answers. I never said that and neither did the majority of people looking for answers. Discussing the themes of Lost are perfectly acceptable.

            What I think fans shouldn’t waste their time doing is becoming obsessed over answering the who, where ,what, when and whys that remain after the show is over because we are never going to be able to answers those questions with any degree of certainty.

            Instead of a dog picture with dog written under it; I think of lost like a puzzle that we as fans have been trying to put together only to find that all the pieces aren’t included in the box.

  • julian

    look kids, I really think Crow said it very well, and made some great points. These accusations should spark some enthusiasm for all the people that disliked the episode. I’m pretty sure the next episode will be epic…

  • I’m the biggest LOST apologist around…but this was just B-A-D.

    I can live with the cornball. I can stomach the poor pacing/acting/direction/casting. I can even endure more questions, and threads that are sure to be left dangling…

    But to introduce something like this with THREE EPISODES TO GO???

    Preposterous. The only way this could’ve worked was to have woven snippets from each of this episode’s scenes into the series early on…tease the parallels…build the WTF questioning until the payoff of understanding in the Alpert episode. That MIGHT have worked.

    They clearly didn’t have this planned since the beginning, folks. It feels hack and trite and hollow. So disappointing.

    Here’s the ending – Jack gets offered the role…takes it and sinks the island as a symbolic denial of the Gods power over man…everyone jumps to the sideways world having symbolically ‘let go’ ie: died. The end.

    Bleh.

    • jimmyzer00

      Everything you described isn’t going to happen at all.

    • Handsome Smitty

      I think what The Darlton did, or tried to do, with this episode was to show how pointless all this “protect the Island”/protect the world” was based on superstition. Since they provided no real answers last night, we have to assume that. Jacob’s “people” (whom MIB referred to as “My People”) were scientific of mind and were actually trying to understand and harness the Island’s energy. Whether you view that as good (utilize) or bad (exploit), that’s all perspective and that’s all The Darlton did last night.

      They can only save – alter! – this silliness by having Jack/Hurley/Desmond realizing that and sinking the Island. I’ve been saying the latter for awhile, now. I just didn’t understand why that had to happen.

      I think The Darlton did know the ‘concept’ of last night’s show and the story all along; as someone pointed out the cork goes back to Ben summoning Smokey. And of course all the rehashed dialogue that gets repeated, which is supposedly meaningful but not exposed as just plain SILLY.

      • steve

        Smitty, if you say silly one more time im goin to lose it.

        • Handsome Smitty

          You so silly.

  • Nick Turner

    Fantastic episode and tons of questions were answered. We finally know who Adam and Eve are and how you can create your very own smoke monster. It will just kill you or whoever hops in the light in the process. Darlton stated from the beginning that they aren’t going to hold your hand and draw you a map, but they will give you the ability to put pieces together if you have the mental capacity to do so. They’ve also stated that you aren’t going to get any “Midichlorians” or “Neo’s conversation with The Architect” answers from the show. Because even though people think they want to know, they really don’t.

    MiB was special; he can speak to the dead. He built the wells, and was in the process of building the frozen donkey wheel. How did he know about getting the wheel to work? Maybe a dead guy that predated his crazy mommy told him. Obviously in subsequent attempts to bring people to the island some “Egyptians” came and actually built the wheel, the temple, and the statue and threw their hieroglyphics everywhere in the process. Did MiB bring the people in order to leave or did Jacob bring them to prove that people are good? Who cares? On with the show… And for people who want to know every possible friggen detail and suck the life out of the show then I am sure once LOST is complete you can buy a bunch of LOST comic books and authorized novels that will waste your time explaining everything to you while Disney/ABC rakes in the cash.

    • dutchmaster

      lol
      Disney/ABC will have fun trying to explain the rest of the series (ew even teased a movie!)

      those idiots who will never be satisfied and still want their bow to be bigger and prettier

      i like the open endness, it makes us THINK

      • Actually is doesn’t make you think or it shouldn’t. Why waste your time trying to figure out something that you can never answer. The whole exercise of debating the lost ending is pointless because you will never have the right answer so why bother. I myself won’t even speculate on Lost after it ends because it is futile and a waste of energy because we will never know the truth with any certainty unless Darlton tells us what that truth is.

        • amy

          why the need to get the answers “right”? I enjoy thinking for myself and I don’t need someone to come behind me and check my answers to make certain I have it right. What I take from the show, and what I have enjoyed most about the show, is the way it makes me think deeper about things. As adults we forget to use our imagination sometiems, it can be a wonderful thing.

          • Then you are choosing to believe your interpretation of the show is true because it satisfies you.

            And that was my point entirely. Take what you want from the experience but don’t bother trying to answer any remaining mysteries because the odds are you are wrong.

            And to clarify; mysterious I am talking about are the facts or the who, what, where and why of the show not about the feelings you derive from it. Only the creators know the answers to the above question.

        • donuteyes

          you don’t seem to really like the show at the moment, so why not try something a little more obvious, like dancing with the stars? it doesn’t make you think and tells you the truth with certainty. that sounds more your speed…

          • Better luck next time!

    • l-i-v-i-n

      amen

  • Silas

    Hold your judgment until you know how it ends.

    • amy

      exactly. It’s like judging a movie based only on the previews. I feel like we have just seen six years worth of previews…getting us hyped and ready for the big movie that will aire in a living room near you on May 23!

      • Wanda

        It always ends the same…

  • dutchmaster

    i blame critics/fans alike for not being patient enough with LOST to let it do its thing…..this episode shows the potential of what the story could be if they had some more time to explain….

    but i think we all forget thats why we loved the show in the first place! the mystery and what the hell is this place dynamic is why we watch week to week!

    since the unsatisfied/complaining fans and critics demanded answers, it forced writers to prematurely put a cap on to something that was supposed to be kinda vague in the first place

    i loved this episode, just hate that we have so little time left!

    (and i for one refuse to let the negativity bring me down, but it does make me bitter because i like the mystery and questions!)

    • ejoiner

      Can you imagine the complaints if they were just doling out X pat answers per script? “How predictable, how lame, saw this a long time ago, what happened to the mystery and unknown of the show.”

      I’m delighted that we are nearing the end of the series and:

      1) I’m still delightfully challenged to figure out what’s coming and
      2) I’m still wanting more backstories/more details and more Lost for seasons to come (which I know isn’t going to happen).

    • jon

      I assume you’re kidding since the end date was estimated three years ago.

  • Brendan McGrath

    I have to disagree with many of the comments made so far. While I too am concerned that there are some questions that need to be answered in order to avoid sloppy storytelling (I list those at the end of this post), I think some of the questions people are asking just aren’t necessary to answer. Many mysterious things are, for “Lost,” just part of the structure of the universe. Asking about them is like asking about gravity, or time, etc. Or, it’s like asking things like this:

    How did a tornado manage to take Dorothy into another world?
    Where did Glinda and the Wicked Witches of the East and West come from?
    Why is Glinda able to travel around as a bubble?
    Where did the Munchkins come from, and why are the witches of the east and west hostile to them?
    Who constructed the Scarecrow? Why is he able to talk?
    Why doesn’t the Tin Man have a heart? Who built the Tin Man?
    Why does snow work as a way to wake people up from poppy-induced sleep?
    Why is the Wicked Witch of the West able to appear and disappear in a cloud of smoke and flame?
    Why does water cause the Wicked Witch of the West to melt? Would water melt Glinda?
    Etc., etc., etc.

    The following, however, are the general issues that I think DO need to be answered or at least “illuminated” further, but that I’m afraid might not be:

    * 1) The issue of moving the island vs. the island’s constant motion, and how one finds the island (i.e., what’s the connection between all the complex calculations and preparations that Eloise Hawking guided the Oceanic 6 through to get back to the island, vs. the relative ease with which Widmore found the island again, and the ease with which the Dharma Initiative and the Others traveled to and from the island with the submarine? And what was the point of moving the island if Widmore was able, apparently, to find it again so easily?)

    * 2) Issues about the whispers and different kinds of apparitions (i.e., OK, so the whispers are dead people who are “trapped” on the island — but how, if at all, is that conencted to dead people who aren’t trapped and are appearing on the island? And why did Richard think it was so significant that Ben’s mother, who had died OFF the island, was able to appear on the island?)

    * 3) The significance of Walt, particularly his being places he wasn’t supposed to be

    * 4) The entity inside Jacob’s cabin when Ben and Locke visited it, and the bizarre behavior that occured when technology was used

    * 5) Connection of the sickness to the Dharma vaccines and the medicine given to Aaron in utero

    * 6) Ben’s past/current/future plans since the time he moved the island (i.e., why did he want to get back to the island so much? Wasn’t he supposed to be part of this whole big war with Widmore? Has that just evaporated due to Ben’s “redemption”?

    * 7) Why, post-1970s at the earliest, do women who conceive on the island die? Actually, it seems evident to me that this was caused by the Incident — but I think it would be sloppy storytelling not to make this explicit. All that would have been required would have been some line late in Season 5 (perhaps when Farraday was talking about the impending leak) in which someone mused, “That’s probably what’s going to make the pregant women die.” Done, finished — storytelling requirements satisfied.

    The following are questions that probably WILL be answered (I hope):

    * 8) The signficance and role of Desmond, etc. and his relation to the rest of the mysteries

    * 9) The significance and role of Eloise Hawking, etc. (The story behind her getting to know the future; why she’s not able to know it anymore at time of Desmond’s injury; any relation to the phenomenon of the sideways timeline; etc.)

    * 10) Issue of Smoke Monster’s connection to Temple and why he is now apparently “subservient” to Jacob and the Others (e.g., why is he able to be summoned via the water thing in chamber under Ben’s house, if all of that is part of the Jacob apparatus. Why would he be a “servant” to the Others. Also, if the ash circle is around the Temple, why does the Smoke Monster have a residence under the Temple? Was that underground chamber still outside the circle of ash?)

    • Wanda

      Doesn’t Widmore have Daniel’s calculations from his notebook? Or did those end up with Ellie?

      The entity in Jacob’s cabin was the MiB, beseeching Locke to help him by giving him his body. And then later appearing as Christian with crazy/dead? Claire.

      Eloise Hawking is the descendent of Allison Janney: the mother who is willing to sacrifice the son she loves for the “good” of the island.

    • Jackisjack

      I get your point it’s very well understood except using the “Wizard of OZ” (movie) is less then 2 hours screen time. “Lost” has, so far, over 110 hours to explain. So of the things some people would like to know, they had some time to squeeze more answers in there.

      • Pete

        I think the point of the “Wizard of Oz” reference is that there are questions that are not relevant to the enjoyment of the story, but they are questions after the story is complete – much like what many of the negative comments are about Lost… There will be questions that COULD be answered, but the resolution of those questions shouldn’t take away from your enjoyment of the overall storyline throughout the series…

        • Dharma Chameleon

          On The 5th anniversary of the finale, I think it would be really cool to have 1-2 hour mock-up of a Dharma orientation seminar. It could be a Q & A format with scientists, theologians, historians etc.. and hosted by Dr. Chang. The could answer some of the outstanding questions that still plaque the viewership.

        • A great many of those questions that won’t be answer could have been answered by subtracting one Kate centric episode from each season (six or more extra hours) and removing the multitude of slow motion endings from the first three seasons.

          • amy

            what is the deal with Kate? Since coming here I have never really understood the intense dislike for her character…

          • The problem with Kate is that her character is poorly written. I blame the writers for not developing a female character with any substance or much to do.

            She has very little purpose outside being a love interest and after years of stretching out the love triangle many fans, like myself, grew tired of her.

          • Glueyoureyelids

            FWIW, I would have gladly sacrificed Sawyer’s own centric episode this season. I used to like Sawyer but I think he had been explored enough at that point.

      • jon

        Also, The Wizard of Oz never pretended to be sci-fi.

    • OtherJacob

      It’s been pretty clear for some time now how they will be answering questions. Some will be answered directly (ex. how the whispers were explained). Some will be answered indirectly, by having provided enough clues through out the series for us to figure it out if we take the time (ex. the food drop). Others will simply not be answered for the sake of ensuring that LOST remains mysterious.

      Remember the explanations of The Force in The Phantom Menace or the explanation from the architect in Matrix Reloaded??? Knowing *everything* kinda ruined it, don’t you think?

      • Handsome Smitty

        Actually it was the bad writing that ruined those finales.

        Uh, sort of last night’s problem as well.

      • Wanda

        Yes, somehow the explicit answers always seem cheesy. Hence the issues with this episode. “I am the woman who killed your mother and made the weaving. You are twins, wrapped in white and black.” It’s all very heavy handed for a show that typically deals in allusion, and illusion.

    • Ed Holden

      Hey, one thing that’s always burned me up since the writers of the Wizard of Oz went into radio silence: if a tornado happened in Oz, where would it take a house? Would it go to Kansas, or maybe Tunisia? Also, where does the Red Brick Road lead? To the Sapphire City? This was never explained! Waaaaah!

      This is the best post about unanswered mythology I have ever read, and I completely agree. I liked this episode a lot for its willingness to tie up loose ends unexpectedly yet remain ambiguous about some concepts like the Light.

    • David J

      I see where you are going with this, but it’s not an accurate comparison. OZ was explained as Dorothy’s dream at the end, so there is no reason to logically question what happened. Unless Vincent wakes up from a long nap at the end of Lost, you can’t really compare the two. And OZ is clearly in the fantasy genre. Lost has been established as a sci-fi show that has supernatural elements, but is still basically rooted in plausible science. Personally, I am not looking for exact answers about the Light or how the island moves. But I do want to know a lot more about Jacob and MIB.

      This episode felt like the first part of a two hour episode. How did they get to where they are now? What is the deal with the cabin, the ring of ash, the cave, the numbers/names, the scale in the cave (the “inside joke”), the lighthouse? Why does Jacob hate technology and why did the cabin freak out when Locke turned on the flashlight? Why couldnt he and/or MIB be seen then? Why is Jacob living in the foot of the statue? What is the temple for and how did MIB become the security system? How are people “claimed”? How does Jacob leave the island and what powers does he have? These are all issues that I feel should have been addressed and now probably never will be.

      • Handsome Smitty

        Exactly!

    • The Wizard Of Oz wasn’t written as a mystery that would one day be solved. I expect mysteries to have a solution and a purpose.

  • jimmyzer00
    • Trip

      Went to this site for the first time today…you’re right! In the process of going back and reading the other season 6 posts too.

  • Ben’s Glasses

    Worst episode of the series. Boring and badly written and acted. I wager much of the fanbase would have preferred any explanation for Adam and Eve other than MiB and his Mom of all things.

    Also, Jacob came across in this as worse than MiB. Darlton said they killed off Sun and Jin so we wouldn’t doubt MiB’s evilness and then they give us his backstory in which he was screwed over and his actions seem pretty understandable.

    • ejoiner

      Because Lost has never presented characters who are conflicted, unsure and mistaken with elements of good and bad interwoven. It’s always been about clear good vs. evil.

      Remember Ben in season 2: “We’re the good guys, Jack.” 🙂

    • dd

      How did Jacob comes across worse than his brother? He had no intention of killing him– only punishing him for the murder of his mother. This presents some interesting questions for the viewer, mostly his or her perception of justice and law.

      • Rams

        But he subjected his brother to a fate-worse-than-death when he had no idea of the consequences. I certainly hope he was trying to reverse the “curse” in trying to end it once and for all.

  • Kevin

    I’ve been saying for years that the crowd of LOST fans screaming every week for “answers now!” are misguided, because any answers given by the writers are always going to be underwhelming. Darlton have frequently used the “midi-chlorian” analogy to illustrate this. When there’s a mystery, your imagination is always going to do a better job of coming up with many interesting possibilities than the one answer that Darlton will have to choose. Here is another example. I don’t know what people were expecting.

    Aside from that, I do think the pacing of this season really sucks. We’ll have an episode where the Losties chase each other around the island for 60 minutes, switch alliances three times, and then nothing happens. Then we get this episode. This year has been so uneven, and the answers we get feel forced and too “in your face.” (E.g., the answer to what the whispers are). They could be revealed in more subtle ways. I’m most surprised about this aspect of this last season.

    • Ben’s Glasses

      Agreed about the answers feeling forced. In general, the primary problem with this season is they are treating the audience like they are dumb when one of the main reasons this show became so loved was that it was a rare show that treated its audience like it was smart.

      • heythereyourself

        See, right there is a perfect example of how we don’t really want the answers. When they give us the answers, we say things like “that felt forced.” It didn’t feel forced it felt obvious, but when you think you know rather than someone confirming what you thought, it leaves room for your imagination to go wild. Then after you find out the truth it doesn’t seem as cool and mysterious. Have you ever liked someone because you thought they were mysterious only to find out they weren’t mysterious at all just quite and boring? This is what happens when people ask for answers, they get them, then they don’t like it, so they complain.

        • That’s a bingo.

          • amy

            agreed. I am often dissapointed when they finally answer a question. I personally enjoy the mystery and the opportunity to imagine for myself what is the answer behind it.

            I also have to say again, this season is slow and uneven for a big reason…it is only supposed to lead you to the big bang at the end. In retrospect it will all come together and be enjoyed, I have faith!

        • Ben’s Glasses

          It’s more complicated than that. It’s when they give us the answers in a scene that feels written by 12 year olds it feels forced. It’s the utter amateurishness of the writing this season during key parts. It’s not isolated either, it’s a pretty widespread reaction.

          Yes there should remain some mystery, and they shouldn’t over-answer things. But when they do answer it, come on write dramatically interesting scenes. It’s what their writers get paid enormous amounts to do for a living.

    • Ed Holden

      I agree that it’s been uneven. At the same time, I have to recognize that all previous seasons have been better on DVD/BD than they were when broadcast because the unevenness disappears. When you remove the wait time the story flows wonderfully because the story arc stops being episodic. I think they design their season arcs this way on purpose.

      • Dharma Chameleon

        Yes! Not just the weekly sometimes several month break but, even the commercials really take me out of my watching rhythm. More so with this series than with any other I’ve experienced.

    • Glueyoureyelids

      very well put.

  • Beena

    I, personally, am not looking for explanations for things that don’t really exist (so can not therefore be conveniently explained in anyway). My son argued with me, that the writers should have at least tried to come up with a more scientific explanation for this episode…but back at the time this episode was supposed to have taken place, there wasn’t a whole lot of scientific explanations for things! We already got SOME scientific explanations with the whole special electromagnetic properties of the island, with other episodes that took place in the more “present day”. But just as it is in real life, there are things we don’t have the answer to yet because of limits in our technology. And with LOST, there are things that probably weren’t meant to be answered by the writers, that we were supposed to be suspend our beliefs that they could be answered. This episode seemed totally geared to try to appease people looking for explanations, and I haven’t quite decided whether or not I think they should have bothered doing so…(because those people don’t seem to be jumping up and down with glee by the big reveals they got).

    All that being said, my only true gripes with this episode are that I would’ve liked to have seen our Losties, because they are more interesting to me than Jacob and MIB who came along at the eleventh hour in our show! And although in this episode there were certain tie ins to the overall story, this could have been a rendered more smoothly. We went from last week’s tearjerker loss of major characters, to this week’s nut case pseudo mother of Jacob and MIB. It’s a bit disjointed in the over all flow. Maybe it is deliberate, and supposed to be. Maybe we are supposed to be a little bummed by the fact that Adam and Eve are nut job mother and MIB, because deep down a lot of us are sentimental and had hoped it was Bernard and Rose or other characters we connected more with! I, for one, am going to miss some of these characters on LOST very much…and to get to the end and not even see them in this episode was the only real bummer for me!

    • MsDee

      Speaking of bernard and rose, if i were looking for a candidate or candidates to protect and watch the island , I’d pick those two because they want to stay on the island

  • accessoire

    I voted best episode ever. Although it’s not really the best episode ever it gave sooo many flashbacks in my mind and so many reveals, while still not telling us everything. Finally we get to know the bigger picture – kind of. I enjoyed every single second of watching this episode, which is quite rare since season 6.

    • ejoiner

      I’m almost inspired to go back to E1, S1 and rewatch the whole thing with the new perspective from last night’s episode. It provided the context for just about the entire run of the series. And, no, not everyone is going to like the answers or philosophy of the writers but that’s life (and art).

      • Drew Lancor

        Just last week, I finished rewatching seasons 1-6, and last night’s episode seems like a very poor fit.

  • Trip

    If the mother had gone into the light cave, like the MIB, then she might have been a smoke monster also. She was murdered by her “son” who was a candidate. I am not sure that Smokey intended for all of the Candidates to die last week. I think he wants to drive a candidate to murder him. Thus, he would be free to “leave” the island. He would also be thankful, just like his mother thanked him for setting her free.

    • Beena

      You bring up a really interesting point. I have a feeling that nut job mother must have gone into that cave at some point, to be able to know and warn Jacob and his bro of its dangers. And I’m not convinced that she isn’t a smoke monster, or some part of it, herself! Maybe the smoke monster isn’t just one person that died, but is made up of the dark side of many people! Or that it feeds off of those people’s negative energies.

      • Trip

        Nice, I didn’t really consider that the smoke monster could actually be something other than an alternate body, for lack of a better word, for MIB or mother. I like that the theory that it could be some kind of shared embodiment.

        MIB must know though, since he is no longer human, that death is his only escape, right?

        I also forgot to consider that Sayid stabbed MIB in the chest and Jarrah was a candidate too. That would kind of ruin my theory above.

        • jamesepowell

          When he stabbed MiB, Sayid had already been claimed. He was no longer a candidate.

  • Dharma Chameleon

    I think if they had spent 2 hours on this storyline it would have been more satisfying. It seemed rushed and I didn’t feel that the characters motivations were clearly established. For example, Jacob throwing Essau? into the cave didn’t seem like the actions of a rational Jacob we thought we knew.

    It is interesting that the rules of island are presumably a construct of Jacobs and the crazy mom.

    Observation:

    The colour of the Light looked like the light emitted during Desmond’s EM field test. Wouldn’t it be weird if Desmond will somehow repair the light that was extinguished by MIB and his sacrifice will be to stay there and maintain it.

    • ejoiner

      “For example, Jacob throwing Essau? into the cave didn’t seem like the actions of a rational Jacob we thought we knew.”

      Exactly why I love Lost – you thought you knew who Jacob was but now we have a much more complex and real character. It’s the reason the show took off in season 1 and hooked all of us from the beginning. And it’s still going strong even as the final hours are upon us 🙁

      • Dharma Chameleon

        ejoiner,

        Nice point Re: complexity! Maybe the difficulty I’m having is that we’re seeing Jacob in the past. Years of soul searching and ‘progress’ have evolved into the Jacob of the present. I’m now thinking of the speech he gave Alpert about choices and second chances for people once on the island. Maybe Jacob also has an opportunity to right wrongs and live a moral existence.

        Interesting Digression from free-will, when his mother says he doesn’t have choice about his new job and that she feels it was always meant to be him.

    • Vlad

      desmond is going to go into the pool of light because EM energy doesn’t effect him. he’s going to go into the heart of the island and save them all.

      • Pam

        Bingo!

      • Rams

        I agree!

  • GeigerCounter

    Honestly I don’t even know why I still visit this hater’s den. Give them a great episode and they complain about it, because it didn’t live up to their expectations. Well, what were your expectations, exactly? What was your great theory, huh? All I remember are stupid guesses about Adam & Eve being Jack and Kate or Jin and Sun. Dumb theories about MIB that made no sense. Here you are given the perfect episode of Lost, filled with mystery, awe, complicated relationships, longing, destiny and answers, and you STILL whine. I call upon all of you with negative reactions to Across the Sea: Just don’t watch the show if it disappoints and angers you so much. Or at least don’t bitch about it afterwards.

    • Trip

      Yes.

    • ejoiner

      I think those who are disappointed are losing the forest for the trees. They want answers to every “mystery” when the narrative and character arcs are clearly the finale focus (as it should be). Like all literature and myth there are numerous mysteries that will never be solved (and probably shouldn’t) and if they were they would just be nitpicking over why they didn’t like those answers!

      I think the writers on and off the show are making one thing clear: there are no final answers, there is no black and white therer is only the complex interweaving of choice and fate and the stories that each of us creates with those threads.

      • Beena

        Exactly!

        What gets to me, is that the writers hand us an episode full of answers to appease some people, and then there is still all the bashing. It just goes to show, that some people will never be satisfied, no matter what explanation you try to give them.

        Everyday, I turn lights on and off in my home without anything but a very limited understanding of electricity…and I don’t need a detailed explanation as to why the lights come on or go off for me to be happy. Everyday, without anything but the most basic knowledge of automobiles, I drive my car…and without any detailed explanation, I’m still just as happy everytime I put the keys in and it works! (laughing)

        • jon

          But there is a plausible reason if you cared.

          The answers in this show leave us with more abstract questions then there were before. It would be like if the answer to why your lights come on was because lights was pixies and then there was an episode about the pixie village getting the light from a mysterious cave.

          • dd

            You are the third most annoying poster.

    • Desi’s Brother

      How anyone can be satisfied with THIS WRITING I don’t know. How can you people accept this!??! After six seasons. Read theses lines…so BAD.

      Mother: This is the reason you are here. Don’t go in there.
      MIB: What’s down there?
      Mother: Light, the warmest, brightest light you’ve ever seen or felt. And we must make sure that no one ever finds it.
      MIB: It’s beautiful!
      Mother: Yes it is, and that’s why they want it, because a little bit of this same light is inside of every man. But they always want more.
      MIB: Can they take it?
      Mother: No, but they can try, and if they try they could put it out. And if they light goes out here, it goes out everywhere. And so I’ve protected this place, but I can’t protect it forever.
      MIB: Then who will
      Mother: It will have to be one of you.

      • heythereyourself

        Not getting your point. What was so bad about that?

      • Ament

        I’m glad you posted that script, it’s ironic how Locke ALSO looked into the eye of the island and what HE saw was….beautiful. I think that is an awesome connection between what the two characters now share. Thanks.

      • John

        She was talking to two boys who know nothing of anything except what their “mother” has told them. And they are both about 12 – 13 years old. So the simplicity of the dialogue and explanation makes perfect sense, contextually.

    • heythereyourself

      Here, here!!

    • Handsome Smitty

      GFY.

      • GeigerCounter

        And a good day to you too, sir.

  • OtherJacob

    What on earth is with all the bashing of last night’s episode????? Did some of the ABC affiliates accidentally show Dancing with the Stars? I thought it was fantastic! It provided enlightenment of the history of Jacob and MiB. It gave greater explanation of the nature of the island. It gave us the backstory for Smokey, and still respected the mysterious nature of the story. What more could you possibly ask for??

    • Drew Lancor

      Substance.

      • heythereyourself

        Please back up your statements. Why was it lacking substance? What were you looking for?

  • RichPundit

    THUD!!! There is little doubt now that we’ve been scammed for years by the PTBs for greedy, selfish fame and fortune!

    Also, seems the corporate machine is playing all its cards, even seeedy ones, to disrupt and minimize any negative commercial impact to this increasingly clear revelation. Please let’s all remember this looong con and those responsible!

    • RichPundit

      btw, I tried to vote but was rejected for already voting which is not true … interesting, eh?

  • dawkinsb

    Some of you people are just plain mental. They have been syaing for an age now that they were never going to explain the “source” just as the “force” was never explained. They have been saying for an age that to just provide streams of answers would not add to the show. They have been saying for an age that this show is about the characters. For those of you who wanted it there was plenty to find your way to the probable answers you seek. I think there is probably a little still to come. I think people need to calm down and watch it again in the context of the whole show. This episode was well above average of TV in general and above average for Lost. Honestly I feel like some of you would not be happy with anything BUT the “Joop comes out and details everything” conclusion. Also I feel like if this was the last episode you might have more of a claim to complain but since thematically the show this season has dealt with losing faith because it seems that the people you thought had the answers didnt; I dont know why you couldnt apply that to this, I think it is clear that the writers have always been so in tune with the audience that everything is so deliberate. There is still 3 and a half hours to provide some even more context to what we saw in this episode. Calm down.

    • OtherJacob

      Is there an emoticon for a standing ovation? I’d like to use it as response to your comment!

    • RichPundit

      Huh??? The PTBs didn’t for years repeatedly intensely hype multiple LOST mysteries/mythology with their frequent promises to provide satisfying answers?

      However, some credit, particularly to Damon, who early and repeatedly admitted that they were making LOST up as they went along expecting only a one season show, now stretched to 6 years … even in their most recent still hyping LOST mysteries/mythology interviews. The truth is inevitably, clearly being revealed, eh?

      • OtherJacob

        Last I checked, the series wasn’t over yet.

        • RichPundit

          UMMmmmm, as quick examples, after years of separately revealed and hyped LOST mysteries/mythologies: why is the Black Rock so far inland, and why only a foot remains of the huge Egyptian statue?

          Satisfying answer: a tidal wave caused both at the same time??? Satisfying, eh? No way, clearly we’ve all been scammed for years thru a loong, diliberate con!

          • ErasedSlate

            Rich, I love you like a brother, but this is bound to happen. When the answers are finally revealed the shine is taken off, our innocence is lost, and the process can be disappointing. We have approached the series with our theories and pre-conceived notions, but their answers may not be the ones that we want.

            Answers are never as interesting as the mystery that surrounds them. I hear you. Personally, I am glad that this episode was before the finale rather than THE finale.

          • icy_one

            How were you scammed? And how is the tidal wave not satisfying?

            You mean because you cooked up some crazy theory and the show didn’t match? Give it up, man. At some point you need to reconcile “this satisfies the question, ‘why is the Black Rock so far inland'” and “this satisfies my need for a complex answer to a simple question.”

          • RichPundit

            Icy_one: we were all scammed cuz our PTBs repeatedly hyped a pile of WTF mysteries/mythologies with the promise of satisfying answers which turn out as you agree … were simple, i.e., not really WTF mysteries/mythologies deserving overt, repeated PTB hype.

            Am happy for you and others who find the few promised “answers” satisfying … personally imho, it is already clear that we’ve all been scammed for years for selfish, greedy fame and fortune. Am LOST … PMO!

          • Rams

            I totally liked the Black rock/statue explanation. the problem is, as others have pointed out, we have evolved so many theories, that we are upset when things don;t pan out as we expected. But the fact that the writers can and still do out-think is awesome!

          • RichPundit

            Well Rams, ur going to love the creative explanation as to why it rained b4/during major game-changing events that our PTB repeatedly hyped … there were clouds in the sky!

          • Rams

            I don’t understand you point about the rain?

        • Chris

          This all comes down to two sides. Fanboys like you who think Damon and Carlton can do no wrong and the rest of us who believe that we deserve closure to at least some of the plot points this show has made over the years.

          So drink the kool-aid. I’m sure you will be back on here after the finale claiming that it was the best show in history. It’s like the TV show has somehow transformed into your mean little sister – no matter how many times she sets the cat on fire you will always love and protect her.

          • RichPundit

            Nice Chris … lol

          • CSLewisFan

            You and Rich sound just like BIB/MIB. Maybe you’d be a good candidate for the next Smokey!

        • RichPundit

          ok, fair.

          LOST PTBs, mostly Darlton, repeatedly hyped the rain that fell b4/during major game-changing events as part of the incredible LOST mystery/mythology to be answered satisfactory. A tidal wave being the hyped answer to the Black Rock inland and the remaining Egyptian foot statue is far from satisfying to me … undeserving the years of hype. If the rain is ever answered, my quip being cuz clouds, it would be extremely unsatisfying and underserving the years of repeated hype.

          k?

          My intention is not to disparage you … am outraged with the years of betrayal by the LOST PTBs for their personal fame & fortune.

    • Drew Lancor

      Mental? Are you so socially inept that you feel the need to insult people instead of intelligently debating them? Pathetic.

      • What is there to debate? This is all about taste. There are two sides to this message board right now: the people defending the episode because they had the nerve to enjoy it and the people who didn’t like it because they dared to be disappointed by it. How can intelligent debate come out of telling someone that what they liked was actually disappointing and vice versa?

        • Dharma Chameleon

          Backgammon anyone?

      • dawkinsb

        Yes, yes I am. I just can’t believe people are having a sook because the show isn’t being resolved the way they want it to be. Sorry, that was never going to be the case so maybe you should have prepared yourself for it. They have still addressed these things, I don’t ever remember (maybe as well as socially inept I am also severely sheltered) people being so authoritative on how a show “has to end”. I think some complaints are valid, others are just anger from the audience thinking they’ve been fooled this whole time, sorry if the story isn’t being molded to your needs.

  • ejoiner

    “just as the “force” was never explained”

    I’ll do you one better – in “The Phantom Menace” the Force was explained (scientifically) and it sucked balls. Those complaining about explanations wouldn’t be happy with the ones they were given if they did get them. That’s the power of mystery and the letdown of revelation. Star Wars IV is a powerful, moving story of characters with mythic undertones. Episodes I, II, III are three hour long “explanations” of the backstory that ruin the concept completely.

    • dawkinsb

      Luckily I never watched the Phantom Menace.

      • Bouncing Naked Jack Moobs

        Lucky you.

    • Handsome Smitty

      There is and has been some scientific explanation to the energy pockets in the Island: Electromagnatism the one most often mentioned at least by the show. It’s obvious Dharma’s goal was to understand and harness the energy just as it was MIB’s “people.” I’m good with that. Although, who is behind Dharma. Kind of important and I think the reveal will come.

      The problem I have is that IF there was some “spiritual” connection with/by/of the energy, it’s been compromised by yet another unexplained character (Mother in Black) who seems to have based her understanding on superstition. And if that’s the writers’ intent, to attack religion, argue the complexities of good and evil (really not that complex), fine.

      But last night’s show SUCKED because of poor writing and directing, which made the acting suck as well. It’s not about The Darltons “ideas;” it’s how they framed it.

  • Chris

    I was sadly disappointed in last night’s episode. The special efefcts of the “light” were really bad. The actors seemed forced. Writing was bad. As if the writer didn’t trust we remembered Adam and Eve they had to flash back. And in my opinion they really didn’t anwer much, not that answers are the issue. I hate to admit that after watching the show for six years I am afraid last night’s episode jumped the shark.

    • HollyP

      Not everyone has watched every episode. Although I’ve watched nearly all, I never did see the Adam & Eve episode.

  • Dharma Chameleon

    Would that be the Dharma Shark?

  • What a wonderful episode. So many things explained while still leaving the Island mystical and mysterious… it was pitch perfect. I think that best of all, it really humanized Jacob and the Man in Black– gave us some genuine characterization behind them so they’re not just plot devices anymore.

    I loved the reveals of the donkey wheel and the Heart of the Island. I always felt there was some majorly important location on the Island that we hadn’t seen yet (for a long time I thought it was the Temple, but that turned out to largely be a waste of time). The Heart of the Island is what it’s all about. I can’t wait to see how this resolves and I’m looking forward to a series finale that is beyond epic.

  • JoshuaRowan

    As far as the time period of last night’s episode, I think the answer is in knowing what language Claudia (the real mother) was speaking at the very beginning before they switched to English so we could more easily understand (it almost seemed like the Other Mother cast a spell to make them speak English, no?) – Were they speaking Latin? It sounded more Spanish to me though.

    • JoshuaRowan

      That said, I’m guessing that this took place in really ancient times – maybe as much as 3-4 thousand years ago, and long before even Egypt came to power (and subsequently “discovered” the island later than when this story takes place).

      At any rate, as much as I missed the Regulars, I thought this was an exceptional episode in itself because of all the mysteries it solved (and created). Although I still wish that they could have somehow brought it back to the current time period so that it was tied more to where the audience’s emotions are (i.e. Jack, John, Sawyer, etc), even if it was just for the last couple minutes of the show – I would have much rather seen something like that than the odd flash to the Adam & Eve cave.

    • MsDee

      Claudia was speaking in spanish , but mommy dearest switched from unknown language to english

  • ErasedSlate

    It has taken some time to absorb this episode, and i think i need to rewatch it about 2 more times to get the full sense of it. It is interesting that the MiB and WiB (Woman in Blue) are more in agreement than the idealism of Jacob. Almost as if he is too good natured.

    He is the reluctant island protector. He didn’t want the job, nor did he even understand it. And his first act on the job was to snuff out the very light he was to protect. Combine that with Jacob’s interpretation of the island, that the island is a stopper from letting the bad out to infect the world.

    I wonder if Jacob’s intent is to remove all of the deterministic forces. He snuffed out the light, leaving the darkness to roam free on the island. The remaining influence of light, himself, has been killed. Now, all that is left to do is to get rid of the darkness. This leaves people to truly determine for themselves what is good and bad, without an outside influence.

    ????

    This was a rich episode, a nice detour to give context to the end. This story could have only been told at this point, to give us all breathing room for the end. For me, this story is not about Jacob, MiB, or WiB, it is about the characters that I have invested in.

    • Frogurt’s Arrow

      The light didn’t get snuffed out.

      • ErasedSlate

        maybe i jumped the gun on that conclusion. But, it certainly looked like the light went dark, then smokey came out. Maybe he just obscured it for a moment.

        • Dharma Chameleon

          I agree. I thought the light went out.

  • John W.

    Look up “the divine spark” if you all get a chance. The divine spark, as it relates to Christian Gnostics, seems to relate to Mother’s comments about every man having a fragment of the light within.

  • shea

    did the mother manipulate everything from the start of the episode to the end. thaught she was interesting she was the protecor of the island but appears to have the same out look as mib towards alot of things, people especialy.
    did she bring the real mother to the island and her people or was she genuinely worried that they where there. think this is interesting because it has consequences,

    jacob on the other hand has a different attitude towards people, maybe, did he manipulate his own death like the mother, when he was speaking to ilana appears he knew it was coming. did jacob bring people to the island for a greater reason or for his interest. different personalities in the same job approching things differently not working to a plan.

    don’t think smokie was praticularly bad last night neither was jacob, thats where this seasons been asking. think the consept of good or bad becomes relitive with this.

    typical lost

    does have consequences, theres no set personality for the job. who ever gets it can do want instend of the story going on a cycle.

    guessing the temple is built on the light?

  • Chris

    You fanboys are ok with not getting answers eh?

    Why was Walt so important to the Others? Why did he appear to Locke in the mass grave and speak backwards? What can’t women give birth on the island? How does Hurley see the island dead people on the mainland? Why did Jack see His dead father in LA? Why is smokey stuck as Locke? What is the smoke monster? Where is its ‘home’? Why can’t it directly kill the candidates? How does Jacob select candidates? Why are they assigned numbers? Why are there only 108 of them? Who are Richard Alpert’s Others? Who found, dug up, and knew what the donkey wheel was far? Why did it move the island once place and the person who turned it another? What was the white light Desmond released when he pressed the failsafe button? Why are people in the sideways world starting to connect with their dopplegangers on the island? Why did the island sink in Sideways world? Who is The Economist? Why did Ben want him dead? Why couldn’t Ben and Whidmore kill each other when Ben confronted him in his bedroom? How is Ben able to ‘call’ the smoke monster? Why does the smoke monster kill some people but not others? Why was Faraday crying when he saw the wreckage of flight 815 in the water? Why did Widmore fake the crash of flight 815? How did Jacob leave the island and go meet people in person? Who told Ben about the donkey wheel and how to use it? what did the test mean that was given to kid-Locke by Richard? Why did the Others wear disguises? Why did the Others decide to kill the enitre Dharma population? How did the Others bring Locke’s father to the island? Why did they need Locke to kill his father? What is the cabin? Who was trapped in the cabin? How did it move around? How did the ash prevent the smoke monster from crossing it? How does the sonic fence prevent the smoke monster from going over or through it?

    And on and on and on…………..

    • John W.

      Well, when you put it that way… I’ll be honest, I’d forgotten a few of those questions. Do you think fans/critics brought this on us, by asking for the show to be summarily concluded a few years ago? Or is it Darlton’s fault for not starting the wrap-up a little sooner?

      I can’t imagine we get the answers we want, unless there is some “a-ha!” moment to come — the nature of which has, up to this point, eluded us all.

    • Nick Stevens

      Personally, I only found a few of those to still be valid questions by this point. It seems to me that some have been directly addressed on the show but most are answered by simply reading between the lines. Oh, and there’s also a few in there that almost certainly waiting for the finale.

      It’s a shame that this episode has been so divisive and that many have lost faith in the show. I can, however, completely understand how and why that has happened though and it is largely the fault of the show runners for saying things like (and I paraphrase) “it can all be explained scientifically”.

    • icy_one

      I noticed you didn’t ask about Kate’s horse. I thought while you were listing out some of the most retarded questions to ever be elevated to major mythology, you’d want to be complete about it.

    • The Magician

      Only about 2 of those questions are relevant.

  • The Magician

    I have genuinely loved season 6, and constantly defended it from some of its more vociferous critics…. but there’s no way I would even attempt to defend this episode.

    Where to begin? The golden light pouring out of that CGI cave was like something out of ‘my little pony’. Alison Janney was sub-par, (though anyone would be with that clunky script). The flashbacks to Adam and Eve were heavy-handed… the story contributed absolutely nothing. I’m left even more confused about the smoke monster than ever.

    I hope that I grow to like it with a few re-watches, but at the moment this whole thing felt like a very bad made-for-tv children’s fantasy. Still, I’m excited about next weeks episode, where things hopefully return to normal.

    • RichPundit

      Now that’s magic …

  • OtherJacob

    There’s one thing about last night’s episode that needs to be taken into consideration by all of the nay-sayers – and that is the revelation of how they’ve used red-herrings in the series so far. Up until last night, we were being led to believe that Adam and Eve were going to be two of the castaways. This was even being hinted at in earlier parts of this season with Hurley bluntly speculating that possibility. It turns out WE WERE COMPLETELY WRONG!!!!

    What does this mean to us viewers???? DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING UNTIL OFFICIALLY PROVEN OTHERWISE!!!! Aka. there is still some story remaining that can help bring more answers and more context. People who are complaining about how things appear at the moment are not seeing the forest because of the trees. Take a minute, relax, and see how the remainder of the series plays out before making any accusations or comments.

    That being said, it is possible that some people’s expectations are completely unrealistic and will never be satisfied with the ending of this series. I truly, honestly pity these people. If they are letting something as simple as a television show get to them this much, how on earth could they possibly enjoy life?

  • johr77

    it sucked!…….

    because we still dont know anything at all.
    now with 2 eps. left we have a HUGE new question. (wanta bet it don’t get answered)

    WHO WAS THE MOTHER (oops. i meant the killer) …… and from where did she come and why was she protecting the island to start with.

    but from what i saw…. MIB never did anything wrong…(that bi**h killed his whole village) he just wanted to be with his people.

    jacob wanted to stay with the woman that killed his mother,
    i have no respect for him anymore, even if the island needed him to be protected.

    it does make one hell of a statement though… dont hold people against their will (MIB) or there will be hell to pay.
    the man just wanted to get back home and find his true family,
    he never asked to be the smoke monster that was forced upon him.
    IMO MIB is not bad, jacob is not really either but he made some bad decisions,
    why would the island want him?

    and just as a rant ive had for awhile…..

    how could Jacob just stand there and let Ben stab him?
    because ben had to make the choice? (stupid)
    if that was the case jacob would have been dead
    a couple days after the black rock crashed.
    but no he could beat richard to a pulp…… but not ben…
    thats still my WTF moment.

    and yes i said it sucked….. but i loved every second of it 🙂

  • johr77

    ohh… one last thing,

    2 eps dont seem like much time to explane all the stuff left…
    but i do hope they explane why…..

    WERE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THE BOY……..

    WhyTF did they take walt?

    ok maybe thell get to it, but theres only less than 120min of the show left.

    im perparing for let downs and would be wise for all to start planning for them.

    • OtherJacob

      With the exception of anything DHARMA specific, it seems safe to say that most things comes down to Jacob looking for his replacement. Given what we’ve seen so far, it would appear that it is preferred to find these candidates while they’re still children.

      The only questions that I still want to have resolved are:
      – Why will MiB leaving the island cause the world to end?
      – What’s the cause of the post-1974 failed pregnancies on the island?

      Remember: don’t expect everything to be answered Sherlock Holmes style. I truly believe that a lot of the answers are embedded in the story, it’s just a matter of putting the pieces together ourselves.

      • RichPundit

        HMmmmmm OtherJacob, my LOST-y sense is curious as to whose payroll u r on and what other aliases u use on these LOST boards. You seem waaay too ready and eager to neutralize any LOST dissent by looong time true fans [or former heavily invested true fans]. ‘Fess up, eh?

        • OtherJacob

          Sorry buddy – I’m just another fan! If it means anything, I am Canadian. Perhaps that’s why I’m more patient than the average poster on here. 🙂

          • RichPundit

            Happy to hear u r Canadian OtherJacob. Am originally from Jersey near NYC now Wisconsin, and have a few good Canadian friends from Toronto/Richmond Hill area. Also, collected data for my PhD thesis at Alcan in Kingston.

            Sorry for the insult, I mistakened you 4 a pathetic LOST Shill … lol. I respect ur pov.

            btw, LOVE Sherlock Holmes and posted on despicable BuddyTV that Dr. House’s character parallels Holmes.

          • Handsome Smitty

            Yankees. There’s a reason ya’ll are called that.

          • Dharma Chameleon

            Ever notice in the show when people lie about who they are or where they are going they mention Canada?

            For example, Ethan told the survivors he was Canadian; Sayid told Nadia he has to go to Toronto on Business.

            Having said that, you probably won’t believe that I’m Canadian as well.

          • RichPundit

            Being Canadian is an easy life suckling on the economic and security American teat … lol

        • Dharma Chameleon

          RichPundit,

          Are you a FOX news consultant by chance?

          And I didn’t capitalize ‘news’ for a reason.

          snoogens

          • RichPundit

            lol … Sorry, my bad!

      • Handsome Smitty

        The children are not candidates for Jake’s job, but for MIB to get off the Island.

  • dms

    I am unsure why people are asking if fake-mother has ‘special powers’. Isn’t that clear? How else is she able to make it so the brothers can’t hurt each other, and will never have to worry about dying?

    Also, I completely disagree that she was running some long con, shaping MIB’s demise in order to release her from her bonds. In the end, she had no other option but to have Jacob replace her, and the only reason she “saw that now” was to convince him. She may have loved Jacob, but she certainly preferred MIB, and was shaping him to take over. Is there any reason he is “special” other than having been selected for the position? They are even speak the same words about people coming to the island.

    I am actually willing to accept that MIB still *is* her replacement.. that she was a smoke monster, too, and he has taken over for her. This doesn’t explain who Jacob took over for, or what role he has made for himself, why he can’t age, etc. MIB can’t age because his body has died, certainly, but did drinking the magic potion somehow give Jacob immortality, too? Are they really two sides of the same coin, tied to each other, and each has taken over part of their fake-mother’s role?

  • Carlton Cuse.

    The opinions are mixed and here is exactly what is causing the divide.

    ‘answering questions’

    Some people are happy with the answers, some aren’t. There is the divide.

    I think we can all agree that to much information can make a show feel methodical and have the feel of a bad Encyclopedia Britannica read. We’ve all been there. That doesn’t work and makes for a HORRIBLE story. So I think everyone agrees with that. And we all agree not everything can be answered. It’s always much more satisfying to get say 1/3 the answers, and then allow the audience to piece together the rest in later months or years. That is a great story!!!

    That said….some answers are better than others. An answer that provides good solid information, that doesn’t feel forced, that has some grounded basis in realism ALWAYS feels more satisfying than an answer such as…”It’s evil because Jacob’s mom said it was”. That’s kind of blahhhh. And thats what annoys many people. It feels like a cop out.

    Take the issue of aging and dying. Why it is that certain characters don’t age or die at times. Which answers is more satisfying:

    Answer 1. Because Jacob touched them and bestowed magical powers on them.

    Answer 2. Because the characters are in a close, circular time loop and due to the laws of time travel, when you get caught in loop, you can’t age or die until your interjecting self completes the loop (excuse the tech speak)Or something like that, an answer that makes you go ..”HOLY SHIIT” when you get the pieces to it all, and you need to see all the episodes to fully understand. An answer has tons of clues littered all over prior episodes, but was to hard to figure out.

    Which answer feels more satisfying?

    • JoshuaRowan

      I’m guessing your intent is for people to say “Answer 2 of course!”, but to be honest I would rather take Answer 1. As has been stated many times, the other answer gives you the “What is the Force?” answer that George Lucas gave in Star Wars. Some mysteries are better left…mysterious 🙂

      For me, this entire episode was summed up by what Other Mother stated at the very beginning – Every question is only going to lead to another question (or something like that). So the writer’s meta statement in last night’s episode seems to be “If you seek answers, we’ll give them, but be prepared to have two more after that. After all, what is life other than to continually seek knowledge – once there are no more questions, there is NOTHING.”

  • JoshuaRowan

    Putting a bit of theory out there about what I believe is keeping Smokey trapped on the island –

    1) From what I can tell, Smokey isn’t actually MIB at all, but just uses MIB’s memories to imitate him (body & soul) after MIB was killed by Jacob. This was the first of 3 people (possibly more) that Smokey imitated long-term: MIB, then Christian, then Locke. Not to mention Alex and Eko’s brother too.

    2) Jacob is the “Guardian” – Not for keeping people away from the island, but for guarding against Smokey ever being able to leave. Before the fight between Jacob & MIB, Smokey was trapped in the Light Cave for eternity – maybe not even as a conscience being. Best guess – Smokey was the essence of everything wrong with humanity (7 deadly sins stuff), and when MIB’s body entered the cave, it released it. Now Jacob’s job has changed from guarding the Light Cave to simply guarding Smokey from ever escaping the island.

    3) They only way for Smokey to ever escape the island (a need that developed after taking on MIB’s memories) is if there is no Guardian to prevent it. So with Jacob dead, all 6 candidates must also be dead. Once that happens, there is nothing to stop Smokey from escaping; i.e. the Corrections Officer will no longer be monitoring the Jail Cell Door.

    4) MIB very likely COULD have escaped the island prior to being killed by Jacob. Otherwise, there would have been no reason for Mother to knock him out and the Donkey Wheel tunnel. But Smokey was another matter – it is NOT MIB and doesn’t have the ability to leave the island like a human could.

    5) Given the destruction of the village and the Donkey Wheel tunnel, I have a hard time believing that she could have done all that work herself. My alternate theory is that Mother WAS Smokey prior to this, and was finally released and able to return to the Light Cave after MIB killed her. Only to have fate intervene and cause Jacob to set into motion it’s release again almost immediately after her death.

    Anyway, I also just have to say that after initially not entirely enjoying the show last night because it kept us totally separate from our favorite characters, I woke up this morning with new perspectives about it and a much better understanding about how deep (and meta) some of the concepts being portrayed by this short story provided. Now I’m realizing that it may be considered one of the better episodes of the show once we get a few more answers (3.5 hours worth).

    • Dharma Chameleon

      I agree with 1 to 5 and I’m hopeful that I can agree with your conclusion on May 23rd.

    • Handsome Smitty

      Don’t. Over. Think. It.

      Other Losties finished the Wheel. Built Tarawet. The Temple. That’s why there’s a mix of myths in everything. Dharma was probably the latest incarnation of MIB’s “people.” There are no real rules, other than the effects of the energy source on those that chance into contact with it.

      MOMINBLACK is still not explainable. Was she a Smokey? Likely, but not clear. The knife was clearly forged by MIB’s people, perhaps brought from their home, who knows. There is no mysticism to why it killed MOMINBLACK. It’s not that she didn’t speak first. She was probably not Smokey. Flesh and blood, she was (you can see the blood and flesh when she is stabbed). If she was Smokey than it was something as simple as being surprised and unable to prepare.

      Lost is just a silly boys’ tale on relativism and humanism, preached by those who want to enslave man because man is inherently STUPID even though it is man that seeks control without realizing they are just as stupid as any other man.

      And there is a reason I didn’t capitalize ‘man.’

      Don’t. Over. Think. It.

  • jackisjacob

    i loved it, everything started fitting into place. i couldet have wished for better answers

  • pete

    MIB’s mum could well have been a smoke monster. ‘Dogans Dagger’ i could have been used to kill her – and also no-one spoke to her before she was stabbed. I think she played both of them from the beginning – i think she wanted to be killed – and she needed someone to hate her so much to enable that – for some reason like richard she couldn’t kill herself. Having said that MIB (locke version) is seemingly unharmed by daggers and bullets? There is a flaw there.

    I cant help wondering if this episode was made to look like a ‘straight forward’ almost operatic tragedy play – but i am sure there will be some major twists through aspects of this story which we have not seen or been given details about yet. I am thinking that maybe jacob and MIB don’t even know the whole story themselves – who knows. however we are definitely heading for The End now – i have faith it will be a good one. (in terms of twists and turns – not as good as in happy! – if you want a happy ending leave now i think!)

    • DeSelby

      If the mom is Smokey, then the dagger is a red herring. She faked her death to con MIB and Jacob, just like Smokey faked Isabella’s death to con Richard. That would explain the destruction of the entire village by one woman, but then we don’t know whose body was buried with MIB, so I’ll just say the original women Smokey was taking the form of. Honestly the biggest problem with the long con theory of the mom being Smokey is that she didn’t really accomplish anything with it. Maybe she though she could leave once someone replaced her but Jacob thinks he has to keep her there.

  • Bouncing Naked Jack Moobs

    Could have been better, could have been a whole lot worse. Mark Pellegrino and Titus Welliver being such talented actors with great onscreen chemistry certainly helped. I’d give it a B-.

  • Jonathan

    When i first watched itI felt dissappointed, but the more I thought about it over the day , the more amazing it became. Especially when you think what these character will have done next. MIBs ties to the scientist suggests he would have gone with the DHARMA folkes in the future, yet Jacobs position as protector seems to have led hi to the Others. THough I believe they and Widmore seem to be the cruz of our lack of knowledge at the moment.

    Is it fair to assume that this light source (the heart of the island) had the Temple built on it. This would explain its ability to heal and give life. And given it went murky after Jacob had died , this is assumably because he was no longer protected/

    If you take it as it is its not rewardidng, but thik about the big picture of all those that have come to the island and it is so rich in depth

  • Ceartly

    Even though the opinion of this ep has been mostly negative, I still enjoyed it. I’m at the point where I’m sitting back and enjoying the ride to the finale. Overanalyzing is over for me now – I’m quite happy with the answers/reveals/surprises being thrown at us. Once the finale is over, and I look back on this episode in the context of the entire body of work, I believe it will be more obvious how necessary ‘Across the Sea’ was to the overall story. Even though I’m sad that one of my favortite shows of all time is coming to an end, I’m even more excited to look upon 6 seasons and say “Whoa, that was one hell of a story”.

  • berdugo75

    I love Lost, but last night’s episode was very LAME. I hope they clear things up in these last 3:30 hrs of the show.

    Did it ever occur to anybody that MIB was just as gullible as Locke? Locke was also tricked into thinking that he was special. Jack, like Jacob, is dumb enough to think that he can’t leave the island. Throughout the show, Jack and Locke were opposites and leading groups in different directions.

    I think the killer mom was also Smokey, which is why she couldn’t age and had no remorse in killing people.

    What bugs me is that we never get to hear MIB’s name, we never find out the back story of Smokey or the killer mom, the meeting between Jacob and MIB after MIB becomes Smokey, how MIB joined the “Others”, and many other questions. The only clear thing was who Adam and Eve are. This episode should have been 2 hrs long.

    An interesting twist would’ve been if the Others were the Oceanic people and Jacob’s job was to recover their reincarnations in order to keep them on the island.

  • Bye everyone! I quit. LOST sucks.

    • Jim

      Crickets….

    • Mack

      Good riddance.

  • Kafuri

    Greetings,

    Other than the bodies wearing the wrong clothes (Adam and Eve had jumpsuites); Did anyone notice that the “Light” (Both in the river-cave and the mother-MIB “Well” scene)was a different color?!… That color being an amber-goldish hue, As opposed to the titanium white/bluish hue of earlier wheel-turning/Island-moving episodes.

    • amy

      where do you get that Adam and Eve were wearing jumpsuits?

      and I imagine the cold frozen ice had something to do with the more blueish hue we saw in earlier seasons.

    • RichPundit

      Jumpsuits, eh? Good catch!

    • heythereyourself

      Jumpsuits??

    • ErasedSlate

      Jumpsuits?

  • OtherJacob

    Hmmm… does anyone else think that there’s a correlation between the Donkey Wheel being frozen in present times and MiB having been thrown into the light/source/whatever it is? Does that mean the release/creation of Smokey had some kind of cooling/negative effect on it?

    • OtherJacob

      ..by it I mean the light/source/warmth/yellowish tinged water

      waita minute…
      warm.. yellow.. water..

      the key to the island is a pool full of pee???

      • MsDee

        Does anyone remember how the water in the temple was lit as well, is there a connecton, that water was healing water. If it is the same water than perhaps mib going in it and through the light meant he was healed .then what? 🙁 doesnt work. but the lit water, and healing has to be connected in some way to the light, just dont know how

        • MsDee

          Also remember when jacob went into the temple after he died and was kneeling over the side of th etemple pool. He touched the water and looked very upset, the light was corrupted?

  • Kafuri

    Addendum: I get the wardrobe foible, but the light seems like a major blunder. If anything, the hue may Diminish in intensity over time, perhaps resulting in Safter tones. i.e. – Going from titanium white to gold, not vis-versa.

  • Kafuri

    I get the corelation concept, but I believe there is a screen cap of the tunnel after smokey leaves; SANS change in light color.

    • MsDee

      Where is it written that the light cant be more than one color? maybe it changes

      • Dharma Chameleon

        Why does the sun come up, or are the stars just pinholes in the curtain of night?

  • OtherJacob

    From what I’m reading above I’m sensing inspiration for a new South Park episode in the future…

  • If they make it all someones dream, I am gonna be really pissed!
    Great comments guys!! I enjoyed reading all your thoughts!
    Thanks! I wonder who is right. How about a poll? Is it gonna be a dream sequence or not?

    • OtherJacob

      if it is a dream, it had better belong to Sarah Silverman.

      • Trip

        She’s in her final season too…coincidence?

  • spinflip

    I feel that the writers were too much influenced by the fans’ demands. It all started with ad hoc explanations of the statue or the omniscience of certain mystical old lady. They just keep taking the magic out of it – there surely must have been a way to explain the spring of light or the whispers in a more subtle fashion.

  • Cyrus

    Here is the difference between a Lost fan and a Lost fanboy. Lost fans overall enjoy the series and appreciate what Cuse and Lindelof have attempted. However, they know the show has had its missteps and are concerned about the jumbled way the series is ending. They are concerned not only about some major plot questions being left unanswered, but also about the possible ambiguity of the ending itself.

    Lost fanboys (which are in full force on this thread) defend Cuse and Lindelof as if they were their parents. They think every episode is emmy-worthy. They used to always say ‘have faith that the producers will answer the questions by the end’. Now since it looks like a lot of questions are going to be left on the table,they say ‘the questions don’t matter, I’m just watching for the ride’. If anyone has anything remotely negative to say, they ridicule and belittle said person. They will be screaming ‘just wait till the end’ until the last seconds of the finale roll by. Even if Lost ends up being Hurley waking up in the nuthouse from a dream, the fanboys will praise it as being cutting-edge and risky.

    I wish there were two threads for each episode: one for normal people to discuss the good and bad of the show and one for the fanboys to tell each other how Cuse and Lindelof are the greatest human beings ever to walk the earth.

    • ErasedSlate

      What’s normal about visiting a fan site of a TV show? The descriptor of “normal” cannot be used of anyone that has this much time, energy, and passion invested in a show.

    • Slimchicken

      I’ve been a fan of the show, though admittedly it’s lost favor with me over the last few seasons. I am surprised sometimes by the blind devotion and defensiveness of some commenters, but I understand it to a degree. We’ve all put a lot of time into this.

      What frustrates me is when someone is berated for criticizing the storytelling. The argument always seems to be that the critic didn’t like the answer or didn’t get the answer they wanted or they’re injecting their own view on the story that wasn’t there. Some of that may be true. But personally I think like much of Lost, those excuses are red herrings themselves.

      Personally I’m not really concerned with answers to things as much as I am with major plot points that were disregarded. To me there are two types of Lost “mystery” elements that often get conflated here. There are random questions (e.g. Who are Adam & Eve?) and then significant plot dilemmas (e.g. What’s this Dharma Initiative all about?). I often see people share items they want covered that list these two types of things as if they’re equally weighted. I disagree entirely.

      I see something like Adam & Eve as a fun little riddle for the fan to try to figure out, the answer to which didn’t much matter in the context of the show’s actual plot. I don’t much care if they answer those kinds of questions or not. It’s not really important.

      I, however, didn’t see Dharma or the pregnancy issues as simply questions to be answered, but central ongoing elements in the larger narrative that required resolution – not just an answer, but the actual completion any plot or sub-plot deserves. For an entire season or two, these two things were presented as major plot components – we were, I feel, led to believe that understanding these things would help us understand the Island. At least that was my interpretation. Unfortunately, the pregnancy problem (along with the surprising offspring – e.g. the special ones who defied the problem) was simply disregarded at some point. As for Dharma, I have no idea why they existed other than to allow for some cool sets and a hippy-dippy trip to the 1970s. You can throw the importance of Walt in there. I’m sure there are others as well.

      To me this is bad storytelling and it’s where Lost began to lose me. The writers’ insistence on introducing new characters, plot devices, etc. at the expense of the many intriguing fundamental plot aspects just wore thin for me and I feel has put us in a place so far removed from where we started it hardly even feels like the same show.

      I know defenders will say I’m just complaining that the show didn’t go where I wanted it to go. They’re right. But it also didn’t follow what the writers themselves laid out foundationally. It’s just veered wildly to the point where now Lost is about MIB, a character created from whole cloth in the finale of Season 5, and the primary characters are secondary at best. The writers haven’t actually served their characters well despite all protestations to the contrary.

  • Carlton Cuse.

    What he just said ^^^^

  • sparafucile

    Didn’t the metal cup, from which Jacob drank the wine, say “Made in China” on the bottom?

  • lennyg

    Wasn’t sure about this episode until I read on another blog that notMom was a smoke monster and role the wine played. The idea is that drinking the “wine” is what gives one immortality. That’s what notMom meant when she told Jacob, “Now you’re like me,” (as in you won’t age Jacob). This is the same wine that Jacob shared with Richard after Richard wished to live forever. Jacob referred to the wine as Hell when he was talking to shipwrecked Richard so notMom and Jacob got sick of the immortal thing and wanted to be replaced.
    NotMom was probably a smoke monster herself. She destroyed the village just like a Smokey would. She knew about the light/Source’s powers becuase she went there and it transformed her into a smoke monster so she could protect the island from explorers who were going to destroy the island’s energy.
    Also, NotMom was stabbed in the heart before she could even say a word – remember Dogen warned Sayid not to let NotLocke speak before stabbing him. In order to kill the smoke monster one has to use that dagger and stab it through the heart.

    • Rams

      All it needed for Jacob to grant agelessness to Richard was touch. And that’s probably what Crazy Mother did to the twins, because she tells them that they never need to know that dying is. The wine, which was incantated over, granted Jacob enlightenment to become the Island guardian.

      • Mandeville

        I would point out that Jacob’s agelessness visibly started at the point he drank the wine as proof of it’s immortality-giving, but there were so many lazy inconsistencies in last night’s episode… let’s hope the writer’s strike is over before the finale.

        • Rams

          Too late, it’s all in the can 😉

          • Mandeville

            Literally.

      • Handsome Smitty

        You’re missing the real point of this episode (and maybe the series): There is no truth, only perception. Across the Sea explored the birth of religion (you can say ‘myth’ if you want, I won’t). People build hokem around truth because they truly can’t, don’t or won’t fully understand that truth anymore than the next person. It’s about fear and control. Only through self-reflection and contemplation can we get close to even understanding truth.

        That’s Lost in a nutshell.

        And I didn’t capitalize ‘truth’ for a reason.

    • johr77

      “Also, NotMom was stabbed in the heart before she could even say a word – remember Dogen warned Sayid not to let NotLocke speak before stabbing him. In order to kill the smoke monster one has to use that dagger and stab it through the heart”.

      i believe notmom, had spoken many times with her notson over all those years.

  • RichM

    I haven’t read every response in this thread, but:

    Isn’t it a little late in the game for characters to still answer legitimate questions with “I can’t tell you now”, or “You’re not ready to know that just yet” or “You wouldn’t believe me if i told you”-type responses? It was a cool, fun tease before because we assumed we’d get answers later. (And not to nonsense mysteries like “Who spliced the DHARMA film?”, but big deal things like “What will happen if MIB leaves the island?”) I guess i come off as a whiny fanboy or something, but i love the heck outta Lost and don’t even want it to conform to some notion/pet theory i had about it’s conclusion, but rather within it’s own construct that respects the previous storylines in service to the characters we’ve grown to love over the years.

  • Brian Gahan

    Okay so maybe someone has already mentioned this and i didnt catch it on here, but im going to throw in my two cents anyways..if MIB’s body becomes a skeleton than how come we saw at the ending of ab aeterno asking jacob to let him to let him leave as his natural self? maybe im not following something here. help me out?

    also on a side note does anyone else feel like MIB reminds them of anakin skywalker believing he has a higher purpose off the island like anakin did off tattoine? and then when backed into a corner turn evil. just a thought

    im loving all these posts though some really interesting thoughts here!

    • ErasedSlate

      It is actually consistent with MiB’s method of inhabiting the lifeless corpse strewn about on the island. Since his body was lifeless, he could put on the Jacob’s brother suit whenever it, uhh, suited.

      And, he could not appear to Ben in the Jacob’s brother suit to convince him to kill Jacob, He had to appear as the resurrected, island power infused Locke, to kill him.

      My question… If the heart of the island is the well-spring of life, what happens when you throw a lifeless body into the pool of warm, yellow water?

  • dudeski

    i’ll admit that the episode kept me entertained as LOST usually does – but, for some reason, it didn’t sit with me following the viewing. so it got me thinking, and i realized that the episode didn’t “wow” me in the usual LOST fashion even though we received a lot of answers last night.

    that being said, i must also admit that the writers did an EXCELLENT job making me, the viewer, identify and sympathize with not only the man in black’s character, but also his motivations for leaving the island. i could feel his frustration and anger after viewing the filled well and destroyed campsite. i understand why he so desperately wants to leave the island. and this perspective gives a greater context to the actions of fake locke and the bsm’s actions.

    i loved finding out who the two skeletons in the caves were, and thought the origin or the smoke monster was good, too – despite the fact that the light cave kinda threw me off a bit. i guess it is due to the fact that i’m having a difficult time trying to figure out how the light cave fits into the whole equation. i dunno. the episode was much better during my 2nd viewing, but the cave still kinda irks me just a little.

  • Mandeville

    Oh…. that episode really left a bad taste. There were so many simple ways for that to be more interesting. Did the Heroes writers migrate to Lost this season? Magic light+wheel=time travel? Really? Pray tell what philosophical/scientific theorizing made that an option? I am the consummate Lost apologist, but the more I think about that episode, the more ridiculous it seems. I wouldn’t even say the lame connections were the worst part. The worst is that they have nulled most of the interesting mythology by floating it into that stupid cave of light…

    • Ben’s Glasses

      Not heroes but they hired some writers from the cheesy series Prison Break of all things.

  • Phil

    In many ways I think we’re experience a preview of the reaction after the series is over. Disappointment and let-down are almost inevitable, even if all questions were answered and it’s been pretty clear for awhile that all questions are not going to be answered. Some of that bothers me (I’d like more information on Dharma vs. the Others and the Purge), some of it doesn’t (Walt ‘s specialness), but it’s definitely clear that there is a large segment of Lost fans that are going to be extremely bothered by the lack of answers.

    And I would say that Across the Sea and more specifically the Man in Black (or should we start call him He Who Has No Name?) represents these frustrated viewers. The Man in Black represents our need to always know, to always explore, to always push the boundaries. This is both good and bad, as human history has shown with landing a man on the moon and detonating atomic bombs. I’m frankly not surprised to see that many have swung to the Man in Black’s side of things after last night’s episode: perhaps callous views of humanity aside, many people are the Man in Black (me included). A frequent rallying cry is “how can the guardian of the island (Allison Janney or Jacob) do the supernatural things they do?” An interesting counter to that idea is to ask those of a religious persuasion, “How does God do what He can do?” The Man in Black in us needs to know.

    Or to look at it another way, think about the game of “Why?” younger children love. Do you realize that game can go on for eternity? Each answer contains within it another question. So the Man in Black in us keeps repeating why. Lost says that at some point you have to accept because I said so and that refusing to accept that there is no reason that can be explained leads to trouble. Like having your soul ripped out of your body and turning into a column of smoke trouble.

    So I think many people are missing the forest through the trees when it comes to Across the Sea, which does not set out so much to give us answers to all of our questions regarding the origins of the island and the people who have lived on it pre-modern Lost timeline, but to answer the question of why Jacob and the Man in Black, who are the drivers of all of the action in the series, have behaved the way that they do.

    For the Man in Black, it’s pretty obvious. Indeed, as the character who dislikes mystery and prefers straight talk (when it suits him), it’s appropriate that his motivations are out there for all to see. What this episode really gave was more about Jacob. He is clearly acting in direct opposition to how his mother did, even if he doesn’t oppose her goal of protecting the island. He brings people to the island to prove that humans are not inherently bad, as opposed to his mother (who seemed not to and also seemed to have been affected by all of her time alone) and the Man in Black who shares her worldview. Jacob’s process of finding a replacement is not to kidnap a child and raise him or her to assume the role of island protector as his mother did. Jacob is instead all about free will, he will not interfere, even if it means sorrow and death. His lesson from his experience with his family is trying to force someone into the role of island guardian is the wrong way and leads to tragedy. The candidate must want to do it themselves.

    This understanding of Jacob and the Man in Black drives the entire series. Why does Jacob keep bringing people to the island despite the fact that doing so flies in the face of his mission to protect it (and eventually gets him killed)? Why does Jacob insist on not telling anyone anything, forcing them to work it out for themselves? Why does Jacob insist on not interfering, even allowing himself to be killed when he could have easily prevented it? Why have the candidates been told so little, been left so on their own, when so much is supposedly at stake? It all boils back to his decision to prioritize free will above all, so as to prevent what happened to him and his brother from happening to anyone else.

    • Mandeville

      I disagree. Childlike curiosity of the unknown is one thing; someone telling you that they have a fascinating story to tell you and then neglects to do so is another. Last night’s episode was the only remaining opportunity for Lost to answer the nagging questions without disrupting the story flow. The audience could have been privy to the secrets without all of the regular cast wasting time by discussing the revelations or appearing too uninterested in having mysteries revealed by rushing through it. It was THE perfect opportunity to sidestep situations like the Hurley/whispers *revelation*. Instead, we had a totally lame exploration in to one of the dullest family dynamics since papa Walton slipped on his nightgown and a shockingly uninspired explanation of the supernatural properties of the island. That episode should have been titled, “Nothing Really Matters”. What makes “special” people special? Nothing, it’s just something you say to get cooperation. What properties does this magic light have? We’ll never know because MIB understands how to crank it with a wheel to travel in time just as he can play games without the rulebook… So painful. I’ll love this show for getting me wrapped up for so many years, but I’m starting to long for the episodes about Jack’s beard and Hurley’s salad dressing.

      • RichPundit

        I’m with you Mandeville, particularly ur:

        “Childlike curiosity of the unknown is one thing; someone telling you that they have a fascinating story to tell you and then neglects to do so is another.”

      • Phil

        The point is that there is no ultimate answer that is going to satisfy you because, as the show itself said, each answer just leads to to have another question. Explain where Allison Janney comes from, then you have to explain where the person before her, etc. And then ultimately you’re probably going to run up against the same answer: just because.

        I look at it like this, if you’re religious, please explain God’s powers to me. There isn’t any explanation that doesn’t contain “just because”.

        • Mandeville

          Sure explaining mom would have been anticlimactic, but they had a perfect opportunity to resolve a boatload of mystery by passively explaining them, something impossible now given the time left. For example, some of the mysteries probably aren’t important to close out the story, but would have been totally fun to talk about the next day. Just off the top we have the statue, the hurley bird, the sickness, the numbers, the whispers, the dagger, mirrored lighthouse …hell, they could have referenced Jack’s tattoos and we probably would have voted this up. The biggest mystery we were left with was why that script made it to production.

          That episode could have been a gift to the dedicated nerds, but instead it was dull as dirt.

  • This may have been mentioned before but I honestly believe that when Adam and Eve were laid to rest it left only Jacob, alone on an island. Jacob is MIB, he is the smoke monster, he is Jack’s father, Smock etc. When he drank the wine, he became almost godlike just like his fakemom. Jacob is still there playing the bad vs. good game by himself since his brother has died. Jacob could not have burned up in that fire and left only ashes in a small fire like that. He literally became the smoke and left. He probably even has the ability of bi-location. This whole thing is a game and he is still playing. Sounds goofy, maybe.

  • Neil

    We are all like MIB, our curiosity is making us all go mad.

  • Handsome Smitty

    Shit gathers flys. Must be why this is one of the most responsive episodes ever.

  • tineydik

    imagination will always render reality an anticlimax. the questions given by lost pique the imagination, now it is time to be let down with their answers. its a foregone conclusion regardless of the answers they offer during this season.

  • The Dharma & Greg Initiative

    Someone asked why the Donkey Wheel chamber ends up frozen and I had an idea. Juno’s mom said the light was the “warmest” anyone has ever felt. What if when Smokey was released, he took that warmth with him? If the light turned cold, it might explain why the chamber is coated in ice when Ben turns it in season 4. Then again, was it frozen when Locke turned the wheel in Season 5? I don’t remember any ice, hieroglyphics, or a well above. This then leads to the question of why there was a wheel installed without a well leading to it. Any thoughts?

  • Beena

    My guess, is that because pseudo mother said “there are things worse than death”, that the result of going directly into the light leaves one a prisoner/part of the smoke monster.

  • Beena

    oops…that was supposed to be a reply to what Erased Slate was talking about above!

  • christian_lyons

    Okay…..A long long time ago, evil ran rampant throughout the world. I’m talking thousands of years ago…we all know the earth is a lot older than mass accepted, right? Well anyway…someone, or group, or force was able to contain that evil, perhaps through trickery or a curse or something…(just work with me here) but it could only be contained on a special island, that had unique properties. An idividual was selected to guard the island for a certain amount of time. During that time, due to the rules of the trick or game or circumstances of the concealment of evil, the guardian had to A. Bring people to the island to try and prove people were inherently good or evil. B. Find a replacement for him or herself. Also, since we know that right now there is both good and evil in the world, perhaps evil sort of “leaked” out as soon as it was placed on the island. It was on a timer, if you will and the time was up at the same time a new guardian had to be chosen. However, obviously the new guardian must choose to become protector. Is the final candidate says or is dead, evil gets to go home, to the rest of the world, pillaging, raping and just being all around super bad.
    For the sake of the storyline, the evil, knew that the current people in the huts on the island were not going to be the deciding factor in whether or not he gets to get all ashes to ashes with the rest of the world. The evil also knew that while itself can not interfere with the guardian, it can make things progress a little by killing mib’s people and filling in the hole, thus enraging mib into killing his mom, Jacob using his Kung Fu grip(kind of weird how Jacob just took mib by the shoulder and walked him all the way to the light, isn’t it? Mib looked like he was in better shape, or it could just be another one of my absentee father man crushes) and throwing him into the light essentially killing him, but now the evil can take the form of Jacobs brother, which could be an excellent manipulation factor down the road.

    Okay I know that was a lot and I probably should have organized it a little better, but that’s my theory until next week.

    Also….I remember reading in the bible that god looked like whisps of smoke and sounded like trumpets or something along those lines.

    And another thing….you may not like my post, put please no crap talking, okay? I have enough drama in my life….you know how long it’s been since I’ve had a girlfriend? Anyway…..I wish all of you well!

  • Rams

    Okay, I just re-watched the episode. Please don’t hate me for this, but I really enjoyed it this watch. 😉 Perhaps the cheese-factor of the “Willow” cave didn’t bother me this time because I was prepared for it. I was also ready for all the non-answer answers. So…

    It’s really a very very tragic story. This is the mother-of-all parent issues the Island has generated. Both Jacob and Nameless Wonder seemed to be emotionally stunted even at 43. I only wish they had also shown us a shot of the first time Jacob and his brother interacted after the latter’s Smokeyfication.

    I wonder if Jacob is now trying to reverse the fate-worse-than-death he subjected his brother to in his anger. And I really hope there is some more explanation of magic “Willow” light. It did appear that the cave became dark after Smokey came out of it.

    I’m still on the fence as to whether Crazy Mother was both Smokey and Guardian, and if she conned her boys into splitting those responsibilities.

    • ErasedSlate

      I just finished my 3rd trip through the episode. It has really grown on me. My biggest complaint is the way Jacob appears to be closer to the character of the bungling hitman Mark Pelligrino played in Mullholand Dr.

      It is interesting that Jacob was loved second best. That Mother in Blue wanted MiB to be the guardian.

      And Crazy Mom did call MiB by name before she died. I heard Uthay.

      I have found it to be a better episode after a few viewings.

      • Rams

        I thought she said “Nothing”. I think Crazy Mother saw the ruthless qualities she had herself in BIB/MIB, and hence thought he would make the better Guardian. Unfortunately for her, he just wanted off! Jacob was way too innocent, and it was somewhat hard to take. It’s interesting to speculate how he transformed into the suave and savvy guy we see in later times. I think he’s still retained a core of innocence, though…

      • Rams

        Also, I find it interesting that Crazy Mother pulls the strings of her sons by giving lies to the lying son, and telling the truth to the truthful son.

      • RichPundit

        Thought she clearly said Esau, but I really don’t care anymore … am really totally LOST and feeling immensely betrayed by their looong con scam for their personal greedy, selfish fame and fortune.

        AND, the PTBs continue to pile on their shameless betrayal with their planned “silence” after the Finale … no doubt hoping those betrayed will creatively work out and apologize for their looong time disappointing behaviours as they enjoy their now lavish lifestyles.

        Sorry, guess my LOST ranting continues as necessary personal LOST therapy after 6 dedicated years as one of their many enablers, eh?

      • dudeski

        i listened to that spot several times, and must admit that it DOES sound like “uthay.” is this the name of our beloved man in black????

    • Rams

      Another reversal. Thinking things through, we got quite a few answers from ATS. Here’s a list of things we learnt or can infer, from this episode:

      1. Jacob probably did initiate the killing of the US Army folk and the Dharma Initiative purge. In the course of the former’s bombings and the latter’s drillings, they would probably have tapped into the “Light” aka the “Exotic Matter”, resulting in god-awful consequnces. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that tapping into the Island’s energy would indeed be catastrophic (the Hatch). Richard Alpert was the mediator in both events trying to get the U.S. Army to leave peacefully, and only killed them when they did not comply. Similarly, the Truce document between the Hostiles and the DI mentions that they should not dig too deep into the Island, which the DI clearly disregarded.

      2. The water in the Temple Healing pool is probably connected to the Tunnel of Light Crazy Mother took the twins to.

      3. How/when Jacob becaome the Island guardian. The Island Guardian becomes ageless when he accepts the job. It also seems to suggest that they become enlightened in some way.

      3. Adam and Eve. Although I’m not sure I buy this, if they really had this thought out right from the start, kudos to them.

      4. How Smokey came into being. It is unclear whether Crazy Mother was also Smokey before she died, and if so, how MIB could kill her. There may have been other smoke monsters that were later destroyed (Egyptian heiroglphics). But at least, we saw when this current iteration of the Smoke Monster came into being, and we found that Jacob was responsible for it.

      5. Who installed or at least, masterminded the Frozen Donkey Wheel. Perhaps MIB eventually completed it, but was unable to leave the Island when he tried to use it. Ben clearly knew its purpose, so information was transferred at some point, maybe via the DI documents (Polar Bear Skeletons in Tunisia!), on how to use the Donkey Wheel to move the Island. As to why the person who uses the wheel cannot come back, perhaps to keep them from exploiting it.

      Care to add more?

  • cap10tripps

    I don’t normally get into the debates of how LOST has let us down or not, but we’re close to the end so wtf. I thought this was one of the best episodes of the series. My initial reaction was disappointment in the lack of a specific answer (MIB’s name which I thought would be Aaron), but as some time passed it grew on me quite a bit. Granted not the holy shit factor of “The Constant” (or most Desmond episodes for that matter), but I really ended up getting the perfect portion.

    I know enough (or at least can connect enough dots) about what was going on before 815 to set up a thrilling 3 1/2 hours. Mom (who wasn’t really mom) was Smokey and protector of the source, MIB killed Smokey, Jacob became protector, MIB became Smokey (my “Bad Twin” theory was right! Make that 1 for 19 or so. Bob Ueker kicks my ass).

    I have never gotten much into any “this episode sucked,” or “LOST has jumped the shark,” chatter. Reason being this is the single greatest piece of art my televisions have ever produced bar none. A slip up here and there never discouraged, and they were certainly few and far between (“Stranger in a Strange Land” is all I can come up with at the moment). I don’t mind your rants (rather entertaining through the years actually), but godamnit enjoy this while it lasts. One day you negators will be watching “American Idol” and have a serious moment of clarity about what we’ve experienced here…

  • lionheart

    Why was the light off until ben turned the frozen donkey wheel? , remember that when he started tutning it light became to appear?

    Maybe we weant more answers because LOST began as a “simple” characters serie, but it got more and more intrigtated and in season 6, we´ve learned that there´s a reason why oceanic 815 crashed on the island, bringing the candidates. So, is there something wrong in having curiosity with the fact that created it all?, episodes like “across the sea” should have been more frequent in this season, I mean, why spent an entire episode in richard alpert when having thepossibility of exploring the past of the island like last night episode?.

    Maybe the finale will blow us all away and we will regret our complainings, but it´s undeniable that when you see some episides in this season you get to question: “was this worthy being just some episodes left to the end of the serie” and having no more chance of exploring any issue after that?

  • jacomo

    Lost would never have made it past season 2 with episodes like Across the Sea.

    • heythereyourself

      What does that mean? A lot of TV on the air shouldn’t be on CSI: Brooklyn, CSI:Hartford for example. It’s the 7/10 that watch these mindless shows. Thank god Lost was given the chance to finish telling it’s story, whether YOU like it or not is irrelevant(?), this show is for the remaining 30%.

  • As I was saying in an earlier blog, I really believe that MIB is completely dead. It is Jacob that has assumed the role of smokey, MIB, Locke, Jack’s father etc. When he recently has seen himself as a child, he is merely arguing with himself (his good side) but he also has this evil side (the smoke side). He has been by himself for so long he is actually crazy just like his fake mom. If this wasn’t the case then why did the others build a temple and try to keep smokie out why did they not just go and live with Jacob in the foot of the statue. It’s because it is him they were afraid of. Ben just never picked up on this.

  • Ament

    The episode answered a lot of questions regardless if it was in script. You need to see it from the character’s point of view.

    When Locke couldn’t get into the hatch with the trebuchet he felt like he lost all faith as did MIB when he seen his well destroyed. Locke continued and got in. They didn’t show MIB dig that well again and try again as Locke did, but you need to imagine he did. It’s been thousands of years, people have come across the island after that incident and they were RECRUITED as he is good at doing. MIB was shown as a leader through dialogue when his mother asked if he told others, he said YES!

    It is assumed the mother is a smoke monster, which is true…it has to be. Now think about it. The silent killing of her, which was explained could only be possible by Dogen…same knife by the way. The mother had a chance when the pregnant woman washed on shore to take a child and cultivate it to be the next protector, except SURPRISE twins….shit. She had BOTH qualities of MIB and Jacob. The problem was instead of giving both powers to one, it was split. She is a f***ing superhero, which is a lame thought but how they hid it in this one episode story was brilliant. She is a GOOD smoke monster doing what is needed to keep the secret of the island safe. Locke knew that importance when he killed Naomi through faith alone and most likely visited by the mom’s apparition through Walt. I believe the apparitions are not of only MIB but the mother as well being the good apparitions of guidance. This is a prologue episode of the LOST story and it’s only a glimpse, we will never see the beginning but at least we will see the end. Flocke told Jack that it was him leading Jack to water…bullshit, it was the mom leading him to the truth.

    For the people disappointed in this episode I’m sorry, it is a relevant piece needed to complete this puzzle of why the island needs to be hidden from (Locke’s words) the most dangerous predator, mankind. We’re not looking for the next Jacob, we’re looking for the next mother figure…that is the candidate. Who can balance both science and faith which was the story we just seen between MIB and Jacob. Jacob didn’t have the physical power to protect the island, only the influence that he shared through Richard because everlasting life and being immortal are separate. Imagine the might of the smoke monster with the passion for protecting the island that Jacob had. Why did the mother tell the kids that it would be “ONE” of them that would carry the torch when her time ended, when she could of easily said both of them. It’s not coincidence how she literally handed the torch to Jacob at the cave just so she can sit, it was a symbolic gesture to who is the protector.

    Why would extinguishing the light kill mankind? I have no friggin clue, but that is the only question i got from this episode.

  • thorne47

    i don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it seemed to me that the light source and the spring we were introduced to is the same spring in the temple…and if this IS the same spring, wouldn’t that mean that the light has gone out? This, apparently, is bad for humanity…sorry if this was written before…i have read a lot of comments

  • terry

    Just thought I would point out that Richard drank wine from the magic bottle before MIB smashed it later in Abeterno. (The wine drinking scene was the one where Jacob explained the cork / island metaphor.

    I think once Desmond takes Smokey down water slide and restores balance, Richard can be left to take over from Jacob. Then the losties can turn the Donkey wheel and shift consciousness to the boom world, happy ending, the end. Or not 😉

  • terry

    Oh and of course Jacob needs redemption for killing his brother so he should really go to the water park as well. (After he finally realized he was wrong)

  • the flash backs to Season 1 were completely insulting. they know how much time people invest in the show, why did they have to dumb it down? they’ve never done that before and i don’t see why they felt the need to do it there. other than that, a great episode

  • Jack’s Sidekick

    They know what they’re doing. Enough said. Be patient and once we get to the end, it will all make sense.