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Lost Rewatch Week 2- S1- Episodes 5 – 8

By AstroJones,

  Filed under: reWatching Lost
  Comments: 118

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white-rabbit239As we enter into the second week of our hiatus long rewatch, this week we focused on the season 1 episodes White Rabbit, House of the Rising Sun, The Moth, and Confidence Man.

My obvious first thoughts this week revolved around Jack seeing his father, for the second time, and following him into the jungle.  After the final events of season 5, I have to believe that Jacob’s nemesis (who I will refer to as Esau, only because so many have latched onto this name. It DOES NOT mean I think he is the real Esau, its only a name) is the source of Christian and possibly all of the other hallucinations that have been seen on the island since the Losties arrived.  As I watched “White Rabbit” I began to think more about Esau’s ability to take the form of any dead bodies on the island.  Now, my memory simply isn’t good enough to remember, but have we EVER seen a hallucination on or off the island that was NOT someone who died on the island?  I remember Kate’s black horse, which obviously wasn’t dead on the island, but since it isn’t a human being I’m not counting it.  Every other person I can remember the Losties seeing were someone who either died on the island, or their body ended up there (at least I think…).  This might also explain why the Others funeral ritual included sending their dead into the sea.  They might not have realized the reason for this ritual, but it could have still been part of a ritual that Richard, or someone else handed down to them, and could have still had the purpose of keeping the bodies away from Esau.  I also have to mention the attention many fans gave to Richard’s demands during season 5 of getting the bodies back of the two men that Sawyer had killed.  People were convinced that there was some meaning to Richard’s motives, and I admit that I felt that people were digging for something that wasn’t there.  However, in light of this rewatch, I’m inclined to agree that there could be more to Richard’s desire to have those bodies back.

The second thing that came to mind I only considered briefly, for just a moment, but I thought I’d throw it out there to see if anyone else thought the same thing, even if ultimately you don’t think its true.  But when Locke showed up at the cliff and saved Jack, for the smallest instant I wondered if that was somehow Esau posing as Locke.  After all, we don’t KNOW that Esau can only take on the identity of dead people.  I quickly let go of this idea as rationality seems to dictate that it was in fact Locke, but his timing was just so damned convenient, and he seemed to help point Jack in the right direction, the same way I’d think Esau would have done.  Anyway, I don’t think its true, but if you thought about it too, let me know!

The next major item that caught my eye was in “House of the Rising Sun” when Jack and Kate stumble onto the Adam and Eve skeletons.  Adam and Eve have been just about talked to death, however, it made me do some searching, and it seems to me that Jack and Kate never told anyone, including Locke, about finding the black and white stones.  Jack was seen putting the pouch with the stones in his pocket and I don’t think they were ever shown again (if I’m wrong on this, please let me know in the comments).  While this isn’t anything groundbreaking, I found it interesting enough to remind everyone about ,especially in lieu of the time travel that comes later.  I guess my point is that unless Adam ends up being Jack, we won’t have another “compass” situation on our hands if the skeletons are any of our Losties.

Those were the only major items that jumped out to me during these four episodes, but there was something else that I realized this week.  Since Lost first started on that fateful day in September of 2004 I have been totally and completely focused on the mythology and mysteries of the show.  I always noticed the great acting and fantastic characters but they were always second to the mythological elements for me.  However, this rewatch has made me really appreciate and notice more tiny nuances in the storytelling and the character development of this series.  Jin is a great example from these episodes.  Speaking for myself, I hated Jin from the beginning.  He was a real bastard, bossy, mean, and a total control freak with his wife.  As I watched their first flashback back in 2004 I completely understood why Sun would want to leave him.  It was obvious that he was trying to do what he thought best for them, but he was failing miserably.  Eventually I grew to like Jin more and more, even before we knew the full truth about Sun’s infidelity, but while rewatching I realized the full inner struggle that Jin is going through.  Here is a man that loves his wife so deeply and so totally.  He gave up everything to marry her, including his soul (to her father).  Everything he did, however misguided, was out of his love for her and his desire for them to have a wonderful life.  And then he learned of his wife’s infidelity, and still, despite his anger, he realized he was partly to blame.  When the plane crashed he was trying to repair the damage he’d done to his marriage, but at the same time still struggling to overcome Sun’s affair.  He was finding it difficult to trust her, difficult to allow her to express herself.  These are the types of moments that truely define this rewatch for me because they’re things that we were incapable of seeing the first time around, due to the storytelling model being utilized.

conman579The story is similar for Sawyer in Confidence Man.  While rewatching I realized for the first time that Sawyer was trying way to hard with Kate.  He was pushing himself on her in a way that I now know he never would have actually done, had he just wanted her physically.  This is a man that knew how to get the women he wanted, and knew exactly how to manipulate them.  No, in Confidence Man Sawyer wanted to show Kate that he couldn’t be beaten, and that he was in charge of the situation.  When he let her read his note to Sawyer, he knew that she’d assume the note was written to him, and it would change her perception of him.  He was counting on it.  And it worked like a charm until the very end when Kate figured out his one weakness and got inside his head for the first time.  Although so many of you probably noticed all of this the first time around, I was too busy trying to figure out what it meant that he was reading Watership Down, and I didn’t always take the time to cherish the nuences in the character development of the story.

As a final note I do want to mention that what I think is my all time favorite quotes was from Confidence Man when Sawyer says;

“Baby, I am tied to a tree in a jungle of mystery. I just got tortured by a damn spinal surgeon and a gen-uine I-raqi. Of course I’m serious. You’re just not seeing the big picture here, Freckles. You really going to let that girl suffocate because you can’t bring yourself to give me one little kiss? Hell, it’s only first base. Lucky for you I ain’t greedy.”

That wraps up week 2 here at Docarzt’s, but there’s far more to read about the Lost Rewatch, happening across the web. The links below will take you to other great articles from other Lost sites. Next week’s episodes are Solitary, Raised by Another, All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues, and Whatever the Case May Be.   Now here is some more Lost goodness.

Visit the Lostpedia Rewatch page for all of the most up-to-date Rewatch information, as well as their blog.

Get Lost with Jopinionated – Rewatch Week 2

Sledgeweb’s Lost Stuff Week 2 Investigations

Jacob’s Cabin Recaps

-Lostaholics Rewatch – Article 1Article 2Article 3

Memories, Musings, and Mischief – Rewatch Week 2

From TVFrenzy:

  • April

    I just wanted to mention a hallucination that Locke had when Ben shot him and he landed in the Dharma body pit. He saw Walt and Walt told him to get up he still had work to do. That is the only one I can think of that was of someone who wasn’t dead.

    • Gusteaux

      Walt also appeared to Shannon and Sayid, speaking backward in S2. There is one more possibility: Harper Stanhope when she appered to Juliet in “The Other Woman.” We still don’t know if Harper was real or a hallucination and, if the latter, we don’t know if she died on the island.

      • whateverhappenedhappened

        Hurley’s imaginary friend?

        • Jack’s Sidekick

          Hurley’s imaginary friend, Dave, was Libby’s husband, David. Go back and watch the season two finale. She tells Desmond the story of how David died.

          • Vlad

            can we confirm this? i probably don’t have to say it but just cuz they have the same name… if we’re following this thought process, little charlie hume could be assumed to be charlie pace…

          • Freckled

            Hurley’s friend Dave is not the same person as David, Libby’s husband. Darlton stated this in a podcast.

            “ Damon Lindelof: As to Libby’s ex, that’s an entirely different David [from Dave (Hurley’s friend)] we may or may not meet in the future. “

    • And then there is this moment in ‘Further Instructions’ when a fresh saved from being bearfood and still unconscious Mr. Eko tells Locke that he is a hunter, after all…

  • Regarding Jack saving Locke, I thought so too, Astrojones. Of course we see Locke now with different eyes. In retrospect I wondered why he looked so strangely at Walt and Michael after Vincent returned. And why there is the “You like to play games” dialogue between him and Jack while they retrieve the dynamite from the Black Rock.
    My rewatch project reached 218, where Hurley sees Dave. Who did not die on the island.

    • AstroJones

      Good point with Dave. However, was Dave ever a real person? I thought he was just Hurley’s imaginary friend. Regardless of whether DAve counts I also didn’t consider Locke seeing Walt in the pit of the Dharma-dead and also Ben seeing his mother when he was younger.

      • Astro, I guess that Dave in Santa Rosa was imaginary…
        But the Dave incarnation on the Island tried to kill Hurley by making him jump off the cliff.
        Which had a certain Esau whiff for me.

        • Cutter XXIII

          Yeah, it seemed like the Christian “image” (if it was Esau) also tried to lead jack off a cliff. Almost succeeded, too. Aha! I said.

          But in the end, Esau led Jack to the water that would save everyone. Curiouser and curiouser…

          • Jack’s Sidekick

            Dave was Libby’s husband, David. who named his boat after her.

    • Cutter XXIII

      “In retrospect I wondered why [Locke] looked so strangely at Walt and Michael after Vincent returned.”

      I think it reminded Locke of his own dad, and the happiness they’d never have together. It was framed as malevolent the first time around; now I just think Locke was a little bummed out.

  • Andy

    Astro, you’re forgetting Walt and Dave, neither of whom were dead, let alone died on the island.

    • AstroJones

      Thanks Andy (and April too). My how the mind goes first. 😉 I actually thought of another one after I published the article as well. Young Ben saw his mother, which led him out into the jungle where he ended up meeting Richard. His mother didn’t die on the island. Well, it was an interesting thought while it lasted.

  • Michele

    I’ve been reading a lot of opinions where people think early Locke might be Esau. My theory is it’s Locke time traveling. He always appears to other people seemingly out of nowhere (Jack hanging off a cliff), giving Sayid his compass saying he doesn’t need it anymore, and he always seems to know when it’s going to rain, etc. Just a few examples but ones that make me think he’s interacting with people during the time the island was skipping through time.

    • Ament

      I would say the same kind of thinking possibly for Jack, because he seems to get a lot of notions on what to do next.

    • cap10tripps

      Love this idea Michele. So much to ponder…

      • whateverhappenedhappened

        I thought the same thing. I was convinced that at some point in early season five, back in the flashes, we would see Locke save the falling Jack… There is still time, I suppose.

    • neoloki

      I am sure the writer’s will want us to look at the earlier seasons in a different light as the revelations come, but I think we should be careful with starting to re-write the earlier seasons. Locke was not Easu before the Ajira crash and Locke was definitely not time traveling through the seasons. Locke has a connection with the Island that is why he is aware of the weather and tends to show up at the right time. Do you really think they are going to continue the time traveling story line through season 6? That would be the only way your “theory” could come true. No. They have already confirmed that it is done.

      • whateverhappenedhappened

        I totally agree that we shouldn’t start re-writing the story, this was just one idea that stuck with me. I think it would have been a fantastic way to show that the writers really have planned this show and it is not just had a bunch of random ideas that have been thrown together (of course, this is not the case, but I for one love to see how far back they have planted seeds). I’m not suggesting that season 1 Locke was time traveling, it’s suggesting that season 5 Locke was time traveling (like we have seen) and he ended up in season 1 time.
        I am very much against the Locke-has-been-Esau-since-way-back school of thought. I also do not believe Locke has that strong a connection with the island, he just has a false sense of grandeur. The most at one we have seen him with the island (as far as I can remember) is when he was NotLocke. As far as the weather goes, we all know that he loves his walkabouts, so in my mind that is just him having a close connection with nature. As for him turning up at the right time: it is called a plot device. Sayid does the same thing, yet no one seems to be calling him the island Messiah.

        • whateverhappenedhappened

          We KNOW Locke was time traveling through the seasons, in fact.

          • Michele

            Probably too soon to bring this up, but in “Hearts and Minds” Locke gives Sayid his compass and tells him he doesn’t need it anymore. Kind of an odd remark since he’d only been on the island for 2 weeks. Then a couple of episodes later when he’s with Boone looking for the plane be pulls a compass out of his pocket. That’s what makes me think he was time traveling. Then and again it just could have been an oversight on the writers part!

      • neoloki

        If it is not shown in an episode that Locke has been time tripping through the years and was physically interacting with the characters than it doesn’t exist. Season 6 will not be showing old Locke time traveling. That story line is over. So, this theory does not mean anything.

        • whateverhappenedhappened

          Notice the use of the past tense in my original post? I never claimed it was the answer of all answers; I never even claimed it to be true. All that I did was mention an old theory because I was reminded of it by that post. Grow up, we’re here to air ideas even if they are not solid or backed up by what Darlton have said.
          Anyway, it is way to soon for you to be stating that season 6 will involve no time traveling Locke. We may see something in a flashback, we may see a season 5 time skipping Locke getting flashed to season 6 times… There really is no way to know. You seem to think that just because Darlton have said that the time skipping story line is over we should start to disregard the nature of the show itself.

  • Wintermute

    No love for “The Moth?” Come on now, that’s one of the best character episodes ever, for both Charlie and Locke. That was the episode that really hooked me into the show in the first season.

    • AstroJones

      Yeah sorry Wintermute, I wasn’t a huge fan of that one the second time around. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think there was a bad episode during season 1 of Lost, but Charlie’s backstory never did it for me like most of the other survivors (I was never fond of Clare’s either, but that could change if she proves to be important in some way).

      I will, however, agree with your comments about Locke on that episode and I’ll slap myself on the wrists for not including that. Locke’s true presence as the “spiritual” leader of the Losties definitely took its form in this episode, and he felt more like a leader of faith than he previously had. And I would list the guitar scene with Charlie as one of my all time favorite Lost scenes. So does that help absolve me any?

      • Madge

        D’oh, why didn’t this post the first time I tried. Anyway, in response.
        I noticed that choice was a big issue in the Moth. Locke telling Charlie that he could give up the drugs and it would be his choice rather than letting them just run out. And in the end Charlie did choose freely to put them in the fire.
        What also kind of struck me was the discussion of the moth’s struggle, struggle makes you stronger in the end. It got me thinking of Jacob telling the other guy how it’s all progress until the end. Is he making them (humanity?) struggle to make them stronger for some purpose? I thought the Moth was great the first time but these eps just have so much more meaning now. There are so many small comments made at the beginning that just mean worlds now.

  • Tim

    I really like the tie-in with the funeral and Richard’s need to take the bodies. I always just chalked that up to The Others being weird, but it’s starting to all make sense now.

  • A few things that jumped out at me in “White Rabbit”.

    -Jack, Sayid, Kate, Locke, Boone, Jin are all wearing white. Maybe that’s just the clothes they have, but there was a great amount of white shirts around. Not to mention they were all clean as Locke’s head.

    -Locke told Sayid and Kate “Besides, I know where to look.” Is this because he’s been exploring the island for the boars? Or is it because he became Esau from the point when he saw the monster/beautiful-eye-of-the-island?

    -Locke’s timing was impeccable. “White Rabbit” reminded me how Locke truly was the fucking man.

    -A few inconsistencies with the Esau stuff. We know it was Esau that took over Locke in 2007 island time. There were two bodies of Locke, remember. In 2004, there is only one body of Christian seen. So Esau being Christian may not exactly be right, or at least inconsistent.

    • neoloki

      Just because Christians body wasn’t in the coffin doesn’t mean it wasn’t some place. This would be totally unconfirmed thus no inconsistency.

    • gmgmill

      I really don’t think there are 2 Locke bodies. There is one Locke and he is the Locke in the Ajira cargo container. We are assuming that Easu is possessing the bodies of the dead. Why can’t he just be taking the form of people he has seen on the island or in people’s minds (if he is the smoke monster as some people have speculated). When he appears to Eko as Yemi, he is not in the form of the decomposing body that was on the Nigerian drug plane. He could have seen Yemi when he scanned Eko and then later appeared as Yemi.

      • Alaine

        You make a really good point.

  • just got my blu rays . there sooooooooooooooo spanky. gonna watch all the second disk tonight . love it

  • craaaig

    I thought that Jin didn’t know about the affair until after Sun told him she was pregnant back in season 3, right?

    • rivum

      that was my thought too.

    • Iwantmykidneyback

      it was season 4 when juliette is trying to get sun to leave the island so she doesn’t die. then jin goes fishing with bernard.

    • April

      You are right. Jin did not know about the affair before the plane crash. In fact, he didn’t find out until much later, when Juliet blurted it out to keep them from leaving the beach. It was Ji Yeon, from Season 4.

  • DarthBubba

    In addition to Locke seeming to mysteriously appear just whn Jack needs him, I was just watching the season 4 premier last night and Locke also mysteriously appears just as Hurley is trying to get away from the cabin that he saw “Jacob” or “Esau” inside of. Also looking at that scene, I noticed there appeared to be two individuals in the cabin at that time; one in the rocking chair and the one who looked throught the window at Hurley.

    • whateverhappenedhappened

      JACOB AND ESAU FIGHTING IT OUT!?

    • adam118

      Christian was in the rocking chair.

  • Cutter XXIII

    I’m going to make the bold claim that Locke is NOT Esau is Season 1. It took four and a half seasons of Long Con for Esau to get Locke to the point he needed him at.

    That said, I do believe that Esau (what Locke just calls “The Island” or “this place”) is communicating with Locke. Maybe it’s on a subconscious level, eventually through dreams and visions, but Locke is being directed. Remember, the whole point of a Long Con (as Sawyer will later explain to Cassidy) is making the mark think it was all his own idea. 😉

    • Yeah I agree with you man. It seems too much of a reach for Locke to have really been Esau since the beginning. It doesn’t explain why there are two Locke bodies at the S5 finale.

      I like your relation to a Long Con. Locke believed that it was his idea all along that he needed to be on this island, and get the people who left to come back. Locke thought that he was supposed to be here for a reason, for a purpose.

      It was Esau’s idea the entire time to make Locke think this was true, when in fact Locke’s true purpose was to be taken over by Esau for the final battle.

      Esau is a bad, bad man.

    • Totally agreed, Cutter. John Locke dies by the hands of Ben.
      Whatever happened all the time before was the real Locke.
      This is quite obvious by helpless Locke timejumping, and EsauLocke sending Richard
      to the Beechcraft right on time…

    • Dolce

      Agreed. John Locke was John Locke until he was strangled by Ben.

      • whateverhappenedhappened

        It makes me quite happy that Locke is seeming to be a bit of a pawn after all…

        • Iwantmykidneyback

          you shut your mouth when you’re talking to me!

      • Vlad

        what if locke died in the plane crash? and esau made a copy of him the first time, then another copy when unLocke came back on ajira 316?

        • Cutter XXIII

          Again…if that’s the case, then why would Esau-Locke turn into such a Swan Hatch Rube in Season 2? Screaming “Just tell me what to do!! (boo hoo!!)” and carrying on like a big wimp.

          That doesn’t seem like Esau’s style, Vlad.

  • Drew

    “When the plane crashed he was trying to repair the damage he’d done to his marriage, but at the same time still struggling to overcome Sun’s affair.”

    Jin doesn’t find out about her infidelity until she is pregnant and Juliet spill the beans. I think you were saying that he knew about it pre-crash, but I could be wrong.

    • jfejle

      Jin went to the Hotel to see the guy because his father-in-law told him, that man disgraced Jin and his family.

  • James

    I too think that the hallucinations are “Man #2”. He’s been looking for his loophole apparently for quite some time. You asked if anyone’s ever seen a hallucination off-island, and the answer is “yes.” Jack saw his dad at the L.A. Hospital he worked at, which drove him to start taking pills. That itself was an interesting scene, as the smoke alarm went off, then his dad appeared.

    It’s fun to go back now and re-analyze Locke in Season 1. Some of the stuff he says makes me think he’s been “Man #2” all along.

    Finally, you referenced the Others and their sending-the-dead-off-to-the-sea ritual. That was in Season 3, around Jack’s Thailand episode. My point is the writers have come out and told us to forget those episodes pretty much ever happened, yet there was a ton of “Others” interesting goodies never answered. Their punishment ritual, their funeral ritual (and remember they were wearing white then), how “law enforcement” came to the island to punish Juliet, etc.

    • DarthBubba

      Just because they said, when asked the question to pick an episode that they wish they had made differently or never at all, that they wouldn’t have made the “Jack’s Thailand” episode does in no way shape or form negate anything else in any other episode.

    • Locke has died more than once. He almost died at birth. He “died” when pushed from a window and Jacob brought him back to life with his touch. He “died” when Ben shot him. He “died” on the mainland with Ben – Whose to say he didn’t die with the crash of 815 and hasn’t been Man #2 from the gate? His insight into the island from episode one has been uncanny. He stops the rain, beats the computer, finds the dog, kills the boar Man #2 told Jacob “You have no idea what I’ve been through to get here” certainly speaks to more plotting and planning than simply possessing a body in the cargo hold of 316 and 6 or 7 days reconnecting with the others

  • LostGirl

    “but have we EVER seen a hallucination on or off the island that was NOT someone who died on the island?” Ben saw his mother and she did nto die on the Island, she died in Portland right?

    • whateverhappenedhappened

      Not in Portland

  • Hexonxonx

    While others have pointed out the island visions that didn’t concern someone whose dead body is on the island (and I’ll add some of the Nigerian thugs in E305 to that stack), I’ve had similar thoughts about the Others’ funeral procedure. The audience wondered why Richard wanted the body back in E508 and thought it should be buried deeper, but I agree that the Others don’t want their bodies to stay on the island. Maybe they don’t all know why that ceremony is performed but that was the original intent.

  • Jeff

    Am I the only one who doesn’t think Christian Shepherd ISN’T Jacob’s enemy??

    We’ve seen Christian act pretty differently from the way Yemi/locke have so far. Christian sought our claire and jack numerous times even acknowledging that he is their father.

    This hasn’t been the case for “yemi” who flatout told Eko he wasn’t his brother and now know “locke” had his motives to keep up the charade.

    Another thing is, is that Christians body disappeared ad where Locke’s didn’t.

    I also have a theory about the messages Jack and kate recieved in season 4. The ones that said “don’t bring him back” and “you’re not suppose to raise him”. I think those weren’t about Aaron at all. It was about dead locke. They shoulnd’t have brought him back and the one that said this was none other than claire herself and we know who she’s with.

    I may be the only one who thinks this but…

    • cap10tripps

      While interesting this would seem like a silly plot point. Why wouldn’t they just say, “Don’t bring Locke back.”? It is possible though (if you believe these halucinations to be Esau) that they were supposed to bring Aaron back. A more interesting discussion would be (if you believe the warnings to be genuine) why weren’t they supposed to bring Aaron???

    • Cutter XXIII

      “Am I the only one who doesn’t think Christian Shepherd ISN’T Jacob’s enemy??”

      Um…what? Double negatives are very confusing.

      So are you saying that you do think that Christian is Jacob’s enemy?

      • Jeff

        Yeah my bad. I meant he isn’t jacobs enemy.

    • Kiekow

      Totally agree with ya dude. I think the messages they received were about Locke and not Aaron as well. I actually thought about this possibility back during season 4 but brushed it off. Now that I know abou loophole, those ideas came screaming back. I guess time will tell!

      • Cutter XXIII

        The Island needs to be more specific with pronouns. It would save everyone so much trouble.

        • Cody

          Yeah, i think the island was somewhere in Iowa in the mid to late 80’s telling another one of its pawns to plow over his corn and build a baseball field

          • Cutter XXIII

            Locke: “Who’s on first?”
            Island: “Exactly.”
            Locke: “Wha-a-a-a-t??!”

    • Vlad

      i think the current incarnations of christian and claire are with esau, and the plea to not ‘bring him back’ was meant for kate to assume Aaron to be the subject. I think Aaron has a power over esau, or is dangerous at least, as is walt…. and Walt and Aaron will come back to save the island… possibly replacing jacob and esau as proprietors of The Island.

  • Jeff

    Also, Jin didn’t know about Suns affair until Juliet told him to prevent Sun from leaving Jacks camp.

  • cap10tripps

    Early Locke being Esau doesn’t make sense to me, because Esau’s loophole was Locke’s dead body being on the island. Unless Esau found a moment to time travel, this is probably not the case. I do like the idea that Locke is an all knowing time travelin s.o.b. when we see him at points early on. Plausible and very interesting [stroking beard]…

    • Cutter XXIII

      If Locke is all-knowing and time-traveling in Season 1, how does he turn into an enormous Hatch Rube in Season 2? Makes little sense to me.

      • cap10tripps

        I said “at points early on,” not all the time. It is plausible that in a few moments we were watching a Locke who had already experienced certain moments that have been discussed (saving Jack for instance). This would be a mind bender but in a good way…

        • Cutter XXIII

          But…why didn’t future/other-time Locke fulfill those moments during the Season 5 flashes?

          I mean, he specifically pooh-poohs the idea of messing with his own past. We saw this happen.

          • cap10tripps

            It would have to be Locke in a future we haven’t seen yet (season 6). This would also meant the real Locke would have to come back from his current state…

  • Cutter XXIII

    I never liked House of the Rising Sun very much…but this time I thought it was pretty awesome.

  • Jen

    I agree that the burial ritual must have significance. I always thought it was weird that Richard demanded to take Paul’s body also. He made it sound like he needed to prove to his people that someone was held responsible for killing the two others, but we know that the others’ society don’t work that way. Whatever the leader/Richard says goes. He wanted the body for some other reason. It makes sense that he wanted the body off the island, but he didn’t want the Dharmas to know why.

  • cekma

    Walt is either a vision provided by Jacob or the real Walt and he just doesn’t realize he appeared to him. Harper I believe was real. Because on a podcast they said she was real. Though they also once denied time travel lol.

    I think Esau only manipulates the dead. And if he is the monster or connected to it then I think this compliments the fact that the monster is not in the temple but UNDER it.

    My only question is if Richard is aware you need to burn or bury bodies. Then why was the Dharma folk just chucked into a pit? I guess he knew that anyone from Dharma that all of a sudden appeared was Esau? So none of his people would have to worry about their appearances? Seems like a stretch to me. Only thing I can think of is Widmore was secretly working for Esau. Or thought he was working for Jacob but really was working for Esau or Richard. And it was Esau’s orders that the dharma folk not get buried or burned.

  • duff

    I actually like The Moth more this time around. Maybe “like” isn’t the right word … “emotional” may be better. Charlie’s scenes with his brother packed more of a punch when you realize how terribly their relationship ends for good. When I first watched the show, there was always the possibility of Charlie getting back home, each more mature, amends made, happily ever after, yadda yadda. But now, it’s much sadder than a has-been rock god .. Charlie looses his brother and his dream .. there’s no comeback.

  • grasspike

    I think there are two forms of the “walking dead” on the island. One is a hallucination or spirit only. If you tried to touch them your hand would pass right through.

    Then you have the “raised dead” like where Esau took on the form on Locke. My guess is Jacob also has this power. To be a “raised dead” you have to have the body on the island. The “raised dead” have a solid body that can interact with other people and also have the memories of the other person so they can steal the identity of that person and not have others know.

    My guess is this was also Clare at the end of season 4 which is why Miles said she looked different, and also Richard which is why he does not age.

    Also we don’t know if Walt’s body is on the island or not. He could have come back to the island at some point in the future, died and been buried.

  • Annie

    these are great observations. I also believe that all previous dead Christian Shepard, Yemi, Boone etc.. are some form of the shape shifter. I also believe that when Locke saved Jack from going over the cliff that he was the evil shape shifter which came to light at the end of season 5. …Evil Locke could have been traveling back through time when this occurred…same type of time travel event when he told Richard to go pull the bullet out of him. I think that there is more evidence that there is some time traveling going on throughout each season…moments..for example when Claire appears after being captured by Ethan and is disoriented/doesn’t know who anyone is…this is very similar to Desmond in the constant. Also when Sayid is captured by Rouseau…he tells her that Nadia was killed because of him…at that point he was on his way to LA to find her…so it would seem that he is time traveling….but I’m jumping ahead…
    The only other thing I would like to mention and see what you think is : is it possible that Jacob can change shape as well….but he can do it through people who are alive??? As I rewatch I notice that for instance Locke knows where he is going right off the bat…embraces the island and acts like a “savior” in many cases…he is very confident during these times…then he seems to revert back and his dialog is less confident etc….seems like a different person???Let me know what you think. Thanks…this is a great thing to have during the long wait for season 6:)

    • tabula rasa

      time travel definately opened a can of worms. i believe its possible locke is skipping through time(his timing is too perfect at times) and possibly others. someone else said the writers said they were done with time travel, but its been a factor in the show even before last year. remember that farraday was experimenting with time travel, desmond was a victim of being caught in between time and space and farraday himself said desmond was special when it came to all this time travel craziness. it’s hard to keep track of everything, but this rewatch is already helping. enjoy!

  • tabula rasa

    Good catch on Jack grabbing the stones from Adam and Eve. I believe that skeleton will most likely turn out to be Jack, considering his love of the caves. The real question is, is the female Kate? You can tell in the very early episodes she cares about Jack more than anyone.

    • Cutter XXIII

      The way that scene was edited made me pretty sure Jack and Kate are Adam and Eve.

      1. Jack says “One of them is female,” followed by an immediate jump-cut to Kate.
      2. Jack says he could understand why they wanted to live here; it’s so beautiful, safe, and serene.
      3. Next scene, Kate’s all bummed out and says “I don’t want to be Eve.”
      4. Jack keeps the black and white stones.

      Personally I think Adam & Eve are Gerald & Karen DeGroot. But this episode opens the possibility that it’s Jack and Kate.

  • the real jacob

    When I first saw White Rabbit I assumed that Christian’s body wasn’t in the coffin because IT NEVER LEFT AUSTRALIA. After all, the previous flashback sequence showed him being told by airport personel that it was against policy for the body to be onboard. International/aviation policy isn’t something you just dismiss-I figured he was just being humored, and that realization apon opening the coffin is what enraged him into smashing the coffin.

    • Cutter XXIII

      I never considered that!

      If it’s true that Jacob can take the form of off-island corpses, and Esau takes the form of on-Island corpses, this backs that up pretty well.

      It also occurs to me now that Christian’s “ghost” also appears off-Island.

  • Jack’s Sidekick

    Am I the only person who realized that Hurley, imaginary friend, Dave was Libby’s dead husband, David. In the season 2 finale, she tells Desmond how her husband, David died and how he named his boat after her.
    As for Locke, I am in the middle of season 2, during my own rwatch and I’ve noticed Locke’s odd behavior. It was always obvious since we knew so little back in season 1 but now after season 5 and all we’ve learned of Mr Loopy (Jacob’s nemesis), these matters are more mind boggling than ever before. My theory is that when Oceanic 815 crashed, Locke and Mr. Loopy became one. Maybe that is how Locke was able to walk again and could not die. Now that Locke died, maybe Mr. Loopy has been set free from this curse. Of course i still believe Jacob had to play some part in Locke’s fortunes.Who knows, maybe Jacob even trapped his enemy inside Locke when he was thrown out of the building by his father. Maybe Jacob was keeping him alive so that Mr. Loopy would not be set free. Either way, if Loopy was inside Locke htat whole time, that would explain Locke’s growing knowledge. He does seem so sure about what is happening during season one, he even tests those around him. I felt during season 5, that this new determined Locke (before we learned the eerie truth) felt like the Locke from season 1. Or maybe Loopy took his form and while Locke was out hunting, he would come stalk the survivors. We’ll just have to wait and see.
    Another thing: Anyone else notice that Jacob did NOT visit Hurley or Sayid until after they returned home. Maybe they weren’t part of his original design. Maybe they were an accident that he gained a chance with.

    • Jack’s Sidekick

      I almost forgot…who told Ben that he had to get Locke’s body and the Oceanic survivors back to the island?

      • tabula rasa

        Farraday’s mother told Ben he had to get them all back.

        • Jack’s Sidekick

          Well I kept that in mind but still, who sought who out? Did she come to him or did he come to her?

          • tabula rasa

            i dont know. i remember ben going to a butcher shop to see eloise and she tells him they all need to return. then there’s another scene in the church where ben asks what to do if he can’t get them all to come back and eloise says that will be a problem. maybe this is the loophole? the fact that ben couldn’t completely replicate the first flight it gave esau his window once 316 crashed.

          • Fan

            The woman at the butcher shop is not Eloise. I think her name was Jill or something like that, but she definately is not Eloise. The woman at the butcher shop did not tell Ben that they all needed to return.

      • Bonita

        Was that actually shown?

        Christian told Locke to get them all back and find Eloise. Ben heard from Locke, he was about to go to Eloise. Ben didn’t know until then?

        Eloise told Jack, Locke’s body will be needed as a proxy, but did Ben meet Eloise before they all met in the church? Possibly.

        Ben and Richard talked in the finale, how this new Locke is going to be trouble. Ben said, that’s why he tried to kill him. Another lie? It’s been suggested in the forums, “Ben knew all along”, so then his intructions to bring Locke back in a coffin could have come from Jacob.

        I’m thinking now, was it necessary at all for Locke to be in that plane to get the losties there, maybe it was only to help AntiLocke. If there was a “window” open to the island, they could have gone there without Locke, but what made some of them jump to 1977… I’m getting confused…

    • April

      I’m pretty sure that Carlton and Damon said in one of their podcasts that “Dave” and “David” were not the same person.

    • Freckled

      Dave and David are NOT the same person. I wish you would stop saying that on here! This is from Lostpedia if you look up “Libby”…

      “ Damon Lindelof: As to Libby’s ex, that’s an entirely different David [from Dave (Hurley’s friend)] we may or may not meet in the future.

  • ReubenJay

    I think something is up with Locke from the beginning. We don’t really know the outcome of his encounter with the monster. Several times after that he appears to be a man who knows what’s going on. Something is up from the beginning…

    • Cutter XXIII

      My take: the Island (i.e. “Esau”) is communicating with Locke via dreams, signs, and portents from the moment he arrives.

  • Lebowski Achiever

    I am a little farther ahead in my rewatch schedule, but I think I finally saw white smoke in an episode like John Locke mentioned. It was in special…let me know if anyone is that far along yet.

  • Jack’s Sidekick

    I thought I saw white smoke too, in White Rabbit I think it was, Jack looks into the jungle and I noticed that there seemed to be a stream of white smoke but couldn’t tell if it was dust in a bright light between the trees….

    • Lebowski Achiever

      I’ll have to look for it….in Special at around the 28:30 mark (right before Walt is chased by the polar bear), look behind Walt. At first I was thinking it was water, but it was moving fast and there wasn’t a running water sound in the background.

      • Cutter XXIII

        I’ll look for that too.

        • Jack’s Sidekick

          naw it’s just water…

  • Cutter XXIII

    I’ve gotten ahead too…we watched Solitary and Raised by Another last night.

    Observation: the psychic who sends Claire on 815 says “That’s not how it works” about his powers…something we hear at least a few times from Miles later on.

    Also, Ben says several times later on that Widmore “changed the rules.” I postulate that this happened between Jacob and Esau too. They obviously have different opinions on what makes humans tick…and Jacob’s continuous “bringing” of random people to the Island is like a game between them.

    Esau changed the rules by using Locke, and then Ben, as a “loophole.” I think Jacob also changed the rules with the Oceanic 815 passengers. Rather than bringing a random group, he went out into the world (for the first time, maybe) and hand-selected his players for this iteration of the grand game they’re playing.

    Also, in Solitary, Danielle’s claim that they “got sick,” and “it took them one after the other” are awesome. It always seemed like she was referring to a disease, but what she says actually describes *perfectly* what we saw during Jin’s timejump. Pretty neat. 🙂

    • Uncle Beaver

      Actually, I was thinking that the “sickness” that infected the Frenchies might, somehow, be Jacob”s nemesis (if he really is related to the monster) trying to find a “Host” to take form in, to propagate his agenda.

      Also, I CAN’T SEE the producers tying up everything in only 17 hours of TV. I’m afraid there will be too much left unanswered.

      • whateverhappenedhappened

        That sounds like a good idea. That could be similar to Ilana and co calling Frank a possible Candidate (was that the word, I can’t remember?)

        • MsDee

          yes it was:)

      • Cutter XXIII

        Don’t be afraid.

    • whateverhappenedhappened

      Jacob’s very own reality TV show.

  • Robbie: Jack’s Sidekick

    That reminds me, I’m glad you mentioned the psychic. When Claire realized along with Charlie that the psychic knew what was going to happen to the plane, she figured that was his best chance to get her to raise Aaron. Now it seems to me that there WAS a couple. Maybe he saw Jack and Kate raising Aaron. “They’re good people, Claire,” he said.

    • Cutter XXIII

      Yes! I forgot to write it, but we were thinking that too. They were on Jacob’s list…they were “good people.” A couple who would take care of Aaron in L.A……eventually.

    • MsDee

      Speaking of the adoption…I noticed another similarity the room in which Claire is to sign over Aaron, (giving custodial rights over to a good couple) is the same room where Michael fights for custody of Walt hmmmmm

  • When young Ben meets Richard the first time in 3:20 ‘The Man Behind the Curtain’ out in the jungle and mentions his dead mother, Alperts first question is “Did she die here, on the island?”
    Which I did pay no attention to in 2007, with Locke and Ben on the way to Jacob and all. Now a lot of stuff appears to have deeper meaning…

    • Jack’s Sidekick

      That’s a good point. People seem to appear whether they died on or off, yet maybe people who die on the island are affected differently than ones who die off. Also the best part of finishing a new season is going back and watching the whole show again. After each new season, the other seasons have new meaning. Back after season 4, when Claire was missing and Jin was presumed dead, watching the season 1 pilot episode, I was more touched by one scene than ever before. It was the scene where Jin offered Claire the sea urchin to eat and when she did, the baby began to move and a reluctant Jin was forced to feel the baby kick. This scene meant so much more at that one time mainly because you just knew that both of these characters were basically screwed. Of course now we know Jin is fine but what about Claire? What role will she play when she comes back.

  • Jerichoholick

    When Locke helped Jack at the cliff, I thought it couldve have been because of a chain of events Jacob started to combat his arch nemesis (in Christian Shepards body) who tricked Jack into falling into that life or death situation in the first place.

  • Jeff

    Anybody catch locke telling charlie “he had a choice” when it came to the drugs. We know jacob lives a dies by that motto. Could it be related?

  • Ament

    From watching season 1 from the start I’ve developed a whole new sense of Jack and Locke prespectives. If we watch how they handle each situation that has come about I sense that THEY are sensing Deja Vu. From the moment Jack opened his eye and stood on the beach staring at the wreckage and not in shock but just phased for a moment….same goes for Locke he’s not shocked. Neither panic.

    When all the characters crashed as awful as being stranded on an island can be, each one of our main character lives improved for the better because of the wreckage. Charlie kicked the habit, Claire found her true feeling for her baby, Sun and Jin’s marriage grew stronger, Hurley got away from money anxiety and found out he wasn’t crazy, Sayid found love again…for now, Shannon found a use, Kate wasn’t on the run anymore, Sawyer found someone to care about, Jack had more then enough stuff to fix and was looked up to as his father was, and Locke can walk and found confidence. Yet all of them, except locke, wanted off the island.

  • Ament

    Charlie Deathwatch

    Funny when you do the rewatch how many times Charlie should have been killed. In the pilot he’s well…in a plane crash and sitting in the tail section, he was almost crushed by a liqour cart, a piece of flaming wreckage lands 2 feet next to him, his foot gets caught and trips while running from the smoke monster, a few episodes later he collapses a bee hive, later he gets caught in a cave in, then reenters the cave with another cave in, he gets strung up by his neck and left for dead, crosses a bridge that hurley crossed and that collapses, and of course addicted to a deadly narcotic to boot.

    Are there any others I might of missed in S1?

  • Jeff

    Rocks from one of rousseaus trap that split his head open.

    He punched sayid(endangered his own life by doing that lol).

  • MsDee

    A couple of things- I believe Esau took possession of Locke’s body on and off. There were times when Locke was Esau(no doubt) and other times when he had no idea what was going on and times he boo-hooed those are the times I think Locke was Locke. Perhaps Locke knew Esau was possessing his body at times. Perhaps he knew that he had to be a sacrifice for the island early on and was vulnerable to on/off possession of Esau.
    In “The Moth” Charlie is seen leaving the church with his brother. The place looks a lot like Oxford where Desmond searched for Daniel Faraday and if I’m not mistaken Charlie and Desmond were dressed identically the same. If I can get some screencaps that would be awesome
    Something else I noticed is; Jack having times when he is out of reach. In the pilot episode he goes back for Charlie who trips while the three try to escape the smoke monster after Smokey killed the pilot. Kate runs and hides and calls out to Jack who doesn’t answer and when everything seems to pass she goes back and finds Charlie but not Jack. When she asks for Jack, Charlie tells her that he has no idea where he is. Then Jack appears and says he jumped in the bushes very nonchalantly and out of character for Jack then Jack appears very uncomfortable and then insist that they proceed.
    He was also called out during the cave collapse and never answered. TPTB had a time where Jack was not seen or heard in the caves and at first I thought well he can’t hear them but from my viewing experience TPTB would have shown Jacks perspective of being trapped inside the cave and that never was shown which I found weird. It was almost as if Jack was purposely left out/hidden from us.

  • MsDee

    Whoa I just thought of something…Jack was asked to dress dead Locke in his father’s shoes. So literally un-locke/Esau was walking in Mr. Shepherds shoes. What significance does this have? Does this in some way connect the Shepherds to Esau? Does it mean anything at all?