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Best Map of LOST’s Island Ever?

By docarzt,

  Filed under: Lost
  Comments: 109

Thanks to Anthony Quinatano for passing this along vio io9:

More details and links here.

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  • whateverhappenedhappened

    if only the writers had a more solid idea of where shit was on the island, too.

  • raabta01

    That doesn’t make sense at all. The lighthouse is in a place where Sayid and numerous other survivors would have seen it many many times. Other than that it’s a pretty cool map.

    • docarzt

      Yeah but… they weren’t looking for it!

      • bplenc

        that is no excuse for posting that article slamming basically the entire Lost fandom (outside of yourself and FB – how convenient) and then shutting off the comments. boooooooooooooooo.

        • bplenc

          sorry shouldve been posted where you mention that you often disagree with FB.

          • Handsome Smitty

            Some of us disagree with her politely. FB just doesn’t want to listen to anything contrary to her world view. Sort of like Obama.

            You gotta’ admit the “belly-flop” theme is hilarious, even if I disagree. I think the writers ended the show in a way that is consistent with the entire series. It is a unique ending for television, and an almost unheard of one because of its spirituality.

            Sadly, that’s just what FB seems to hate.

          • Rams

            I agree that Lost’s ending was consistent with it’s worldview. I’m religious, but I definitely don’t agree with the spiritual worldview of Lost. But it is internally consistent, that’s all I want from a good book/movie/show. Sorry H.S., the belly-flop thing was really irritating to me.

          • spacebender

            Well said, Rams. The visual grotesqueness of FB’s writeup interfered with my being able to attend to what she had to say in addition to the visuals. To me it felt like someone used a microscope selectively to obtain the most unappealing possible images and then held them up as proof that the person from which they were taken was disgusting. Although her presentation included some factual observations, they amounted in my view to nothing more than a collection of granular images (very unpleasant ones at that). To me the conclusions she drew from them don’t ring true at all.

            I regret that I’m even making these comments here where such a beautiful and well-crafted map is posted, but the comments in the other thread were turned off. I am actually disappointed that FB was not asked to choose between either posting her whole article with comments enabled, or posting a lead-in intro/link with the comments disabled (that is, the Doc’s willingness to let her to post the entire article should have been conditional upon leaving the comments enabled.) In my view, our Doc has allowed his excellent site to be misused by FB.

          • Rams

            Yes, indeed, spacebender! FB has misused Doc’s site, and unfortunately, has put a huge black mark on the site, IMO. Posting a lead-in intro/link with the comments disabled would have been the right way to go here. I agree with you on the grotesqueness of the images FB has used in the recap. It looks like the trolls were right about FB, after all…

            And yes, I’m sorry to post comments on FB’s article here. The Island map is really amazing, with a few locations maybe off.

          • DocArzt

            Actually, Fish published it after I asked her too and since it is a reprint from her blog she quite appropriately guided the discussion to her site.

          • spacebender

            Such a redirection of the discussion to FB’s site could have been (and imo should have been) accomplished without a full reprint on this site. Although, such decisions are yours to make, I am very disappointed nonetheless as I feel it was ultimately a disservice to the site and to us.

            Thank you for listening.

          • joe_bones

            obama doesnt want to listen to people who disagree with him? since when??

      • DocArzt

        Yes, but folks… nothing has changed in the tone of Fish’s commentary. When she loves it, she loves it, when she hates it, she hates. And ALSO, she has always posted her recaps here as well as on her site. My point is, nothing is new. I’ll offer my counter viewpoint soon (the title is LOST – Perfect from beginning to “The End” to give you a sense of the tone). Unfortunately I couldn’t do it sooner as I came down with pneumonia the day of the finale.

        Also you guys need to understand I did not post the recap. So your complaints about what I did or did not say in the post, or how it was done, are moot. We’ve published negative opinions before.

        The bottom line is fishbiscuit was given the opportunity to post here, and I’m not going to pussy out because some of you may be insulted by her post. Her opinion represents what some of the fandom feel, we can’t excommunicate the fans who were disappointed with the finale… only offer our own opinions to the contrary. As a good friend of mine said: don’t get bitter, get better.

        • Kate’s Perfect Butt

          Doc, I think those complaining about FB’s review being posted are way off-base. Of course it should be posted. The thing is, though, comments should have been allowed, as they have been in the past for all of her reviews.

          • DocArzt

            Yeah we kind of mutually agreed on the comment thing. So I will take the blame for that.

          • bplenc

            take blame but not apologize or turn them back on or do anything about it. classy.

        • imfromthefuture

          well said doc.. agree about the comments should have been on but well said

        • Rams

          I think that the problem here is not disagreement with FB, but rather with the tone of her post. And the comments being turned off was what upset many of us. I don’t agree that we can go an post comments at her site. Personally, I like visiting certain Lost web-sites, but I don’t want to be bothered with visiting even more sites and commenting at all those places. However, what happened happened (;-)) and thank you for explaining what you did.

          I do understand that many are disappointed with the finale. As for myself, I thought the Finale was perfect. I have several dissatisfactions with the whole of Season 6 (the pacing, etc.), but overall I’m quite satisfied, and maybe even ready to move on. It must be harder to move on for those who weren’t satisfied with the way Lost ended.

      • DocArzt

        Well that was certainly not my intent. But I’m not going to cheapen the heat of the moment with apologies. 😉

        • RichPundit

          For the record DocArzt and if anyone else cares, Fish articles are a key reason I visit this site … I look forward to them. Her obvious passion, energy and hard work sharing her interesting LOST thoughts with related pics is much fun for me! And, it doesn’t matter if I disagree.

          • RichPundit

            btw, as a key disagreement example regarding FishBiscuit’s always interesting and fun articles, my clear sense is that the “romantic” triangles that so obsessed Fish were forced, contrived and overly-hyped by many including the PTBs, simply cuz it is clear that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Juliet and several other Losties were simply sluts enjoying sex with just about anyone, anytime … like me! lol

          • jimmyzer00

            Agreed 100% and lets be honest we all wanted at least a little more than what we got

        • bplenc

          god forbid you apologize for all the hateful things FB said in her article regarding:

          – the fan community: “assholes”
          – Any from DarkUfo: putting his face on cartoon bodies
          – doc jensen: claiming he is on the payroll of the PTB

          she wants to hate, fine, but why try to take the whole damn thing down with her? IT WONT WORK.

          again, FB is like the crude oil in the beautiful gulf that is the Lost fandom. and posting it here without comments means you support it completely.

        • spacebender

          Thank you, Doc. 🙂

  • Beena

    It’s funny to see this post, because I was actually just thinking about how cool it would be to have a map of “the island”. thanks for the link. On the same page, there was another very cool map which can be found at:

  • RichPundit

    Interesting how LOST fans create innovative LOST mythology that our LOST PTBs, particularly Darlton, never did or even could … lol

    • Silas

      I never strongly disliked the “fandom” until after the finale. Nothing but a flood of tears from a bunch of spoiled, unmitigated douchebags. I don’t understand why you trolls didn’t just make your point and leave the fansites to the people who still like this show.

      • RichPundit

        WOW Silas … “spoiled, unmitigated douchebags” and “trolls”?!??

        I’m deeply hurt that you reject and disparage anyone with a different pov even if solidly based on the obvious 6-year LOST loong con scam by the now clearly disreputable PTBs … AND, they don’t even care in their now luxury lifestyles.

        Who’s betrayed and the fool, eh?

      • RichPundit

        Also Silas, trust we are ALL looking forward to Darlton’s participation in our next Comic Con as in previous years …

      • Kate’s Perfect Butt

        Silas, your comment is completely ridiculous. Why are those who are unhappy with the show and the ending trolls? Clearly, you have NO understanding of what the term means. And the comments threads are NOT just for those who enjoyed it–this is a forum for people to express their opinions. If you can’t stand opposing viewpoints, then clearly the Internet is not a good place for you.

        • Silas

          Hey, if you can express your opinion without having to whine about the show on every new post, great. Otherwise, it’s getting old.

  • JCM

    Curious why the church/sweat lodge is shown to be to the west of the beach camp and Boone Hill. It’s pretty obvious on the show (and I’ve been there in person to see myself) that Eko’s church is to the right of the beach camp if you’re standing with the water at your back. (To the east on this map.)

    • imfromthefuture

      Right is not always east actually

      • Ed Holden

        It is on a south facing coast. Still, it’s a neat map all the same.

      • whateverhappenedhappened

        especially on that fuckin island…

      • JCM

        I’m know – but if you stand with your back to the water, the church should still be to the right of the camp – but it’s on the left of the camp in the map. And it’s East of the camp going by the compass rose we’re given.

        • jimmyzer00

          WHO CARES

          • Jack’s Sidekick

            I stood there on the set in April and if you face the ocean with the camp to your back, then Boone hill and the church is to your left, quite a small distance actually.

  • Funback Joe

    Im going to use THIS post to say that Fishbiscuit is a sad, sad woman. I hope her bitter death rattle helped to satiate her feelings, which have for several months been akin to scorned lover, and with the last post converted to smug *****, but I am very happy she will now return to obscurity.

    By the way, I write this here because 1) it needs to be said and 2) I would never contribute to a boost in traffic for her sad lonely blog.

    Yay Lost! And awesome map 🙂

    • icy_one

      Amen. For someone who writes, she uses an awful lot of unnecessary pictures and doesn’t seem to be mentally capable of digesting a narrative.

      Three words.

      Four words.


      • Henry Holland

        Or: Fischbiscuit perfectly captured in her own style the frustration, disappointment and despair that a section of the fanbase has felt from watching a show that was awesome for the first 4 season spiral off in to religious mumbo-jumbo, pointless flashsideways and no/shitty answers to basic mysteries. Her evisceration of those two overrated egomaniacs running the show was long overdue.

        Give me


        over Mark “uses pictures too” Oromaner’s hilariously pretentious “LOST is a guide to how to live life” fanboy wanking any day.

        As to the map: why is Hydra off the east coast when the Pala Ferry dock is on the Northwest part? To shuttle people back and forth, they have to go almost half-way around the Island? Doesn’t make sense. Also, the stations are different than the blast door map; this map has The Flame in the NE, while on the blast door map it on the west side of the Island. I’ll trust Radzinzky’s map more, thanks.

        • Juliets Muffins

          Even comparing Marc Oromaner’s well thought out, reasoned and nuanced ideas about the show to FB’s one liner – picture – oneliner grabage is a blasphemy. It’s like comparing a political science professor’s analysis of the middle east situation to a right-wing GOPer reading off uninspired one-dimensional talking points about the same topic.

          And eventhough Marc uses pictures he uses them few and far between and he uses the thumbnail version. FB’s post had full size pictures which are a bit*h for the browser and shows lack of concern towards the reader and are probably an attempt to make the article feel longer and more detailed than it is.

          • Henry Holland

            Well, to each their own, eh? I find his stuff insufferably pretentious and just flat out wrong a lot of the time. He has a thesis and he’ll ignore or bend stuff we see with our own eyes to fit it. He wants to find deep, profound meaning in LOST and it’s pretty clear now to some of us that the show was neither, all the symbolism and characters named after philosophers and religious stuff was just….stuff (as the guy giving Eko his fake passport says), just window dressing for a plot that had no internal logic or consistency.

            And anyone that can write, with a straight face, that LOST, a mere TV show, is a guide to how to live life, well, that’s just freakin’ sad.

          • Henry Holland

            Found it, here’s the quote that made me wonder if Marc Oromaner might not be visiting his local version of Santa Rosa some time soon:

            Regardless, Lost gives us the tools to understand life and help make our own noticeably better


    • Ben’s Glasses

      FB’s was a great post and said stuff a lot of other people haven’t had the balls to admit to themselves. Darlton basically conned ABC for 3 years, made them believe they had more of a clue than they ever did in order to get a 3 year commitment. Lindelof couldn’t be more of a tool for his condescending comments in Wired this spring.

      • jimmyzer00

        I honestly think that Brian K. Vaughan saved this show.

      • Juliets Muffins

        You clearly seem to have no idea how television works. Darlton had to pitch ABC a detailed overview of the series and the ABC executives knew exactly where the story was heading. And besides if their goal was to con ABC for financial gain, they wouldn’t have restricted themselves to 3 seasons of 16 episodes, they could have made a longer deal and even asked ABC to give them a few more seasons at the end of season 6 like the creator of Desperate Housewives did. ABC would be more than happy to have LOST on for a few more years since it was their number 1 scripted show in the key 18-49 demo all season.

        • Henry Holland

          Darlton had to pitch ABC a detailed overview of the series

          “Darlton” did no such thing, maybe JJ Abrams and Damon Lindelof did, because Carlton Cuse’s first credit is 0109, Solitary.

          Are you sure you’re not confusing the “detailed overview” with the fact that they wrote a scenario for 13 episodes that tied everything up in case the show got canceled? Because if ABC was on board with the mess that that last two seasons became, then they’re as responsible for that as Darlton.

          • Juliets Muffins

            Darlton have mentioned several times that when they got the end date they pitched the season by season storyline. And again you clearly have no idea how TV works, a network doesn’t give the writers a blank check to whatever the hell they want, they know beforehand where the show is going. Even cable channels like HBO and FX don’t do that let alone a broadcast network like ABC.

          • Henry Holland

            Oh piss off, I know how The Industry works, I live in Los Angeles, know tons of people in the business, have a neighbor who’s a lawyer at a talent agency etc.

            What have here is a failure of me to read your post of 6/19 at 12:04 correctly. I thought you meant “at the start in 2003/04” and you clearly meant “when they got the end date”, sorry for having the reading skills of an 8 year old.

  • I second Fishbisket’s dissection of the plot holes and the ending impressions left by LOST. I agreed that in the end it was a long non-story. Or at the most a really terrible result with bullshit messages and unfinished plot lines. What the hell was the series all about?

    Her attack on the fans of the show “aka nerds who can’t get any” had no place in her article and makes her a total asshole. I personally agree that Skate had more chemistry but Fishbisket why are you being such a bitch to fellow viewers.

    Honestly, can you just stick to the topic. You write a good argument, but you have this batshit crazy Skater twitch that you can’t shake in any of your articles. It really tarnishes some of your really good arguments.

    • Henry Holland

      Yeah, the Skater “twitch” is annoying, but then again, I hated the whole love triangle thing from the start. I think it’s the laziest, most bullshit form of scriptwriting because two of the people are always meant to be together (in this case, Jack and Kate, we saw it in the first 20 minutes of the pilot), the other person is always just a speedbump on the road the two Destined Forever people have to travel.

      They handled the romance part pretty badly and there’s no doubt that the there’s a lot of problems with the way women were portrayed on the show. What do you expect from two comic book nerds?

    • RichPundit

      Makes sense and well-stated Chester Crackpot!

      In addition, I would like 2c we former, hard-working rabid fans strongly unite against those PTBs, particularly Darlton, who intentionally scammed us for 6 years for their own greedy personal enrichment. No excuses!

      • imfromthefuture

        I think like people being personally insulting/having the whole show ruined by the flashsideways is a bit overboard.. i mean if you take the sideways out of season six would u like the show? if u knew they didnt end up in heaven would that be better for u?

        regarding fish: i think that she really did not focus on facts as they pertain to the finale in order to enhance her point.. i like reading her recaps they are must reads for me even though i hate how her view of the show is tainted through jack hate sawyer cock worship..

        also wtf is she talkin about fanboy this fangirl that.. like what does that even mean.. those terms are so stupid to me.. anyone who watches this show is entitled to an opinion without having to be stereotyped as a fanboy or some bullshit which means nothing.. oh so if i like jack and kate and find that them being together makes sense because they spent THREE years together off island (while sawyer and juliet did they same) and are extreemly invested emotinally in eacohtoher that makes me a complete moron? them being together makes sense..

        further complaints about all the non deaths (people who left on plane) are bullshit.. like u want the full story of what happened to them off the island? well the show has to stop somehwere… is it so upsetting to you that they ended up in heaven? i mean im not even reilgious but even i cant deny there is something sick about our society when people are so enraged with a group of people who saved the world going to heaven.. there are plot holes.. but i can piece most everythign together.. people wanna know why walt is special.. he is just fckin special who cares.. i wanna know WHY day is blue and night is black.. but im not forsake god at the gates of heaven if he doesnt provide me this answer..

        anyway my poitn is im pissed at people who say the show is ruined for them.. that cant be the case it just cant.. it was not that bad..

      • JEFE: I have put many beautiful answers to the story lines, each of them fill in each little mystery.

        EL GUAPO: Many beautiful answers?

        JEFE: Oh yes, many!

        EL GUAPO: Would you say I have solid answers to the many mysteries?

        JEFE: A what?

        EL GUAPO: *Solid Answers*.

        JEFE: Oh yes, you have solid answers.

        EL GUAPO: Jefe, what is a solid answer?

        JEFE: Why, El Guapo?

        EL GUAPO: Well, you told me I have solid answers. And I just would like to know if you know what a solid answer is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone that he has solid answers, and then find out that that person has *no idea* what it means to have a solid answer.

        JEFE: Forgive me, El Guapo. I know that I, Jefe, do not have your superior intellect and education. But could it be that once again, you are angry that the finale does not make any sense?

      • a_tape_dispenser

        Sigh. self-righteous, inflammatory articles like Fish’s and the one you’ve linked to above make me sick inside. Seriously. I’m an intelligent, successful human being (who feels no need to prove this fact with details) and I loved the show thoroughly even if I’m able to point out places where it could have been improved. So then I encounter that weeklystandard article with this conclusion:

        “The only question you need to ask yourself now is: Why did I keep watching if I figured out after the second episode of the second season that there would never be any answers? There are two possible answers for you to debate. One: That is an unsolvable mystery akin to Lost itself. Two: I’m a sucker.”

        When I read an article with a conclusion like that I can only make ONE conclusion. The writer is narrow-minded and won’t allow for more two possibilities to a question that has many, many, MANY explanations. The explanation for why I kept watching LOST was that it was a wildly entertaining show with a cool mythology, great characters, and a thoughtful veneer that mixed science, religion, and fantasy together in a (mostly) well-balanced blend. If I enjoyed the damn thing and don’t need the kinds of answers and specificity so many people seem to be clamoring for, why does that make me a sucker? I’m NOT saying it makes me any better than people who are frustrated, but hearing it said that I’m a moron for NOT being frustrated is just dumb and really paints these “reviewers” in not the most reliable of lights.

        The puzzle is THERE, people, and the picture is pretty darn clear even if there are pieces missing that would have been nice to have received. How much these missing pieces bother you is a matter of opinion based on how much you enjoyed what we did receive and just how badly you wanted the specific things we didn’t get. Personally I got far more than enough awesome to be overly disappointed with anything we didn’t get. Everyone else is entitled to their opinion, but gross-generalizing about the mental states of the opposing group gets everyone nowhere, as does weeping about being “conned” or “lied to” or “intentionally scammed” by writers who entertained us with their mosaic of stories for six years.

        Cool map though. Glad some people remember this is just a TV show and can still find plenty of enjoyment in Darlton’s super-nifty world even if it wasn’t God’s gift to the earth.

        • imfromthefuture

          Amen.. couldnt have said it better myself.. and i did try to lol

          • bplenc

            thanks for that a_tape_dispenser – as much as it has been said on here it needs to be said more and more and more – especially since it cannot be said on FBs page – what a crock!

            and boo to Doc for moving all the comments on the previous posts – now he is not only letting nutcases like FB post articles without a comments section, but if you disagree, your comments will be taken down, or worse, tangled in a mess like he has done. you think that is a mistake of some sort? think again.

            he obviously did that on purpose because a lot of the attacks were on him for posting the article in the first place…and defending it by saying he has disagreed with FB in the past…oh yeah? so what! doing that is NO RESPECT for your readers. period.none.

            and I will now follow the others and others and get the heck outta dodge without giving Doc the page hits he so desperately wants by posting controversial posts – like some tarty pop singer using shock to get attention.adios Lost haters, i see the light, and its at Darkufo !

  • The Mantis

    Since the comments on Fish’s article are turned off…. She is entitled to her opinion, I personally diasagree completely and feel bad for her that the ending made her so miserable and obviously unhinged. But it didn’t surprise me, her articles were progressivly more and more negative towards the end, so much so that I don’t think anything wouldve been good enough for her. But whatever.
    What I don’t get is why all you “fans” of the show that agree with her sentiment are still doing on LOST sites, taking the time to read and comment on threads if the show was such awful, hateable “bullshit” now that it’s over? Even Fish, why even bother to write such a long, calculated article when you have absolutley nothing good to say about any of it? If LOST ruined your life (which is what it sounds like) why take so much time gutting it in front of the rest of us?
    And sorry, but you did sound smug. I look foreward to seeing the show you’ve been writing.

    • RichPundit

      Answer: much need personal therapy to help deal with the recognition of six years of intentional betrayal by the formerly highly trusted and respected LOST PTBs …

      • Silas

        Try being less self entitled and seeing the show for what it is. The writers did not promise you anything.

    • Matt

      I understand everyone’s entitled to their opinion, and if someone wants to write their own negative opinion, then go right ahead! But Fish has denied us to retaliate with our own opinions by turning the comments section off, just out of her own fear that people wouldn’t agree with her opinions (which I certainly don’t).

      I’ll be honest. I hated her article. I couldn’t even read all of it, because it made me so upset that someone could completely trash something I love so much… and look past all the amazing things about LOST that have kept us watching over the past 6 years, and skip right to every possible negative thing one could think of about it instead. So I skipped around and read some of the parts that popped out at me. The thing I hated most about it was that she posed her own “opinion” as fact, which it’s not. If you don’t think Kate should have ended up with Jack (regardless of the 3 years they spent together off the island, and their engagement), that’s your own opinion. And I don’t someone’s opinion on LOST if they don’t respect mine (or the opinions of anyone else in the fan community).

      My own opinion about LOST is that it was about as close to perfect as any television show could ever get. Sure, it WASN’T perfect, as no show ever is… But out of all the tv shows I watch (and I watch many), nothing has ever come anywhere near as close to captivating my love, imagination, and passion as much as LOST has. I never held any expectations for the show (which I think is what sets me apart from most of the people that were disappointed with the ending), because I always loved everything they gave me, and I fully trusted the writers to continue with their brilliance. Sure, I had my own theories about what was going on, or about the reasons for some things happening, but I never assumed I was right and left myself open to be disappointed if I wasn’t. I feel like a lot of people out there just had such specific expectations… and not “high expectations,” because the show never failed to deliver… but they wanted specific things to happen… and not everyone can get what they want in the end.

      Anyway, I’m completely rambling right now ’cause I’m starving… so I’m gonna stop writing before I really start sounding like an idiot. Final point: I loved every single minute of LOST… even Jack’s tattoo episode… Sure I still have questions, but I never expected to receive all the answers like many other fans of the show apparently did… including Fish… and if I had received all the answers, I think the show would be a little more boring in my eyes. And for all of my remaining questions, I have come up with my own answers anyway that work perfectly fine for me.

      • Henry Holland

        Oh for fuck’s sake! She turned the comments off HERE, you can go comment at her site, she didn’t want to have to go back and forth commenting.

        • Rams

          Neither do I want to go back and forth commenting at different sites. Sorry Henry, I can’t accept your point.

        • jimmyzer00

          It’s not like she ever gets down in these talkbacks anyway. She did it because she knew people would rebut her and she obviously likes being a spiteful bitch from the tone of her articles and the way she was just giving out people’s personal info on her blog.

          I agree with some of her points but in the end, fuck that nasty bitch and I’m glad we don’t have to hear about it any more.

          Hope you’re feeling better Doc!

          • Henry Holland

            Wow, and some people wonder why she rags on the misogynistic fanboys that clog up this site. [insert 20 eye-rolling emoticons here]

          • bplenc

            Henry are you a moron?
            why didn’t she turn them off before?
            she is a complete wreck of a person seen clearly through all her disgusting negative words.

    • Rams

      “Unhinged” is the right word. She had ignored/purposefully misinterpreted several facts in order to prove her point. Or maybe she just didn’t get it. For instance, she states in her recap that Desmond did nothing special and that Jack did everything. Um… the only reason MIB became mortal is because Desmond uncorked the plug. I could go on and refute several of the statements she made, but I don’t really see the point. It’s really sad.

      • Eric

        Agree, completely unhinged. She lost it. All because she hates Jack and has a crush on Sawyer. Sad, really

      • icy_one

        Exactly. She just can’t see the forest for the trees. When given an answer, she’s not satisfied. When not given an answer, she’s not satisfied. Honestly, if people like Fishbiscuit were to actually watch things other than Grey’s Anatomy or Lost or actually pick up a book, they’d hate everything. Imagine how they’d tear apart something like LOTR. It’s tasteless, its disrespectful, and mostly its just embarrassing.

    • spacebender

      Indeed, “unhinged” is an excellent description. There were certainly aspects of LOST that didn’t thrill me (e.g. the temple aspect), but I disagreed with FB’s conclusions about most everything else (the Numbers, the Island, the Sideways universe, the mythology, the character arcs of Sawyer & Juliet, Locke, Sun & Jin, Sayid & Shannon, Jack, Kate, Claire, Aaron, Charlie, Hurley, Libby, Desmond, Penny, Daniel, Charlotte, etc.). Again, I am disappointed that the good Doc allowed FB to (in my opinion) misuse his site by posting her entire article here while refusing any comments; either enable the comments or post a simple intro and link to the FB site.

      Again, I regret that comments disablement in the relevant thread diverts conversation to an unrelated thread, so the least I can do is to again compliment the professional and aesthetically pleasing map.

      • DocArzt

        The comments aren’t disabled. She just wants a centralized conversation. Go to the link she provided for discussion.

        • bplenc

          “centralized conversation” pfft.

          honestly Doc, what a crock!

        • spacebender

          The disappointment I am expressing is that the comments are disabled on *this* site, where FB has been given a full reprint. This is what I believe is not an appropriate usage of your website. Though ultimately it is up to you and you may not concur, I honestly find it objectionable. Other FB articles have been reprinted here, but always with the comments enabled, and that was always okay regardless of how little I share with her viewpoint. I appreciate that she wants a centralized conversation, but in that case in my opinion she should not have received the full reprint. There would have been no harm to her or her website if simply a lead-in (introduction with link) had been offered pointing to her site, and in that case I would not have objected to disablement of the comments.

          Again, thank you for listening, and for all the content that you provide in relation to LOST. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Finale when you have opportunity to post them.

          • bplenc

            the best part is that on her site, most of the comments are from people who agree with her.


  • NSBZero

    In this life, where little of our existence makes any sense, and we will never get the answers to all our questions, why would anybody expect a television program to give all the answers any inquisitive, insatiable, chip-on-their-shoulder person could dream up?

    These people, although fully entitled to their opinions, must’ve spent their childhoods asking neverending questions on a roadtrip and never happy with the response:
    “Why is the sky blue?”

    “Because of the sun’s effect on the atmosphere.”


    “Well, that’s an question you’re going to have to wait ’til you’re older and in Natural Geography classes.”

    “I don’t want to wait, I want the answer now!”

    “Well, scientists aren’t even 100% sure why the atmosphere acts the way it does.”


    “It might take years to find out, maybe not even in your lifetime.”

    “Why? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? ARE WE THERE YET?!! WAAAAAAH!!!”

    I sure as hell don’t have any answers. But I have a life here in the real world, and no time to waste on being angry at two men I’ve never met because they’ve never said who built Tawaret on the beach, or who made the video in Room 23.

    If you depend on a television show for your ultimate happiness, you will be disappointed every day of your lives, and are the cause of your own suffering.

  • RichPundit

    WOW DocArzt, after many years ur LOST site(s) still fascinate me with the passionate screaming of radically different perspectives and unwavering loyalties to rigid beliefs in the face of a pile of clearly opposing facts. A core human behaviour, eh?

    imho, as examples, it is similar to the passionate loyalists in spite of the pile of clear contrary facts: 1) the results of a decade of dominate “Conservative” Republican rule claiming fiscal/economic responsibility, security and family values, 2) Obama change supporting human rights, environment, realism and bipartisan behaviours, and most sensitive, 3) rabid religious beliefs that ignore the actual foundational writings in the Hebrew bible, Christian bible and Koran where much despicable, brutal behaviours are evident and demanded such as the supposedly God-demanded brutal conquering of obscure peoples (including Jerusalem)and family members, and the treatment of women, subjects and minorities.

    Anyone who has read any of my 100’s of LOST posts know that I had been a rabid fan who WAS solidly in awe of the creative talent of the PTBs, particularly Darlton. No doubt that our PTBs frequently excessively hyped a large number of CORE mysteries/mythology with the repeated promise of satisfying “answers”, as well as an overall solution “mosaic”. I emphasize “CORE”, cuz I agree that expecting “all the answers” is unreasonable, but expecting the hyped CORE answers as directly and repeatedly hyped/promised is no doubt reasonable. Now, it doesn’t even make sense to view again any LOST episodes from my expensive LOST boxset that was gifted to me by my best buddies … we all now know that all the LOST episodes are essentially meaningless nonsense that serve no real purpose relative to the so-called storyline.

    It is factually clear that the LOST PTBs, particularly Darlton, scammed us for six years for their own personal fortune. Worse, they simply don’t care, hence “radio silence” … hopefully forever.

    imho, after 6 years of opportunity including a very active, intelligent, rabid fan base including me, Darlton has clearly revealed their lack of both integrity and talent. I continue to think that a satisfying mosaic of LOST mythology answers was (is) always possible leveraging the hard-working, creative and talented fan base including Fish, DocArzt and everyone who posted here and elsewhere.

    This is what I see as the clear truth about LOST, and I need closure for therapy after all the time and energy I contributed for the greedy PTBs who scammed us, particularly Darlton. Hope 2c them at Comic Con … lol

    However, am disappointed about the nasty attacks on the opposition.

    • icy_one

      Nasty attacks?

      “scammed us”
      “‘radio silence’ … hopefully forever”
      “lack of both integrity and talent”

      People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. You’re a terrible “fan” and a terrible viewer. If I were a screenwriter, I wouldn’t want someone like you watching anything I write. I wouldn’t want you to give you the satisfaction of nitpicking to the point where you have missed the entire narrative.

      Now, go watch Lord of the Rings or the Godfather or Indiana Jones and apply your masterful deductive skills. “How did primitive people construct a pressure sensor so accurate?” “They never explained why the ring is so evil!”

      • RichPundit

        2b clearer 4u Icy_One, my comments are only directed towards the nasty attacks against fellow posters [like yours against me], not against the infamous PTB scammers like Darlton who no doubt earned them …

        There is a HUGE difference between a delivered storyline and a delivered storyline that totally ignores their gushing 6-year deluge of repeatedly promised answers to frequently hyped mysteries/mythology.

        Sorry that you rabidly disagree, but the facts are what they clearly are and my opinions count too!

      • Henry Holland

        Why is it people like you can’t grasp that some of us are disappointed that, as RichPundit says, “[snip] expecting “all the answers” is unreasonable, but expecting the hyped CORE answers as directly and repeatedly hyped/promised is no doubt reasonable”? That after 6 seasons, countless hours online and all the money spent on boxsets and Ben figurines and whatever else that we’re disappointed that all the hype, all those absurd “You WILL get the answers you’ve been waiting for!” promos (yes, I get it, ABC controls that, not Darlton), all the endless podcasts and interviews where we were told to be patient, the core stuff would be answered, came to nothing or the answers were so lame that it defies belief? Here’s a perfect example: The Numbers.

        In the Sri Lanka Video (which IS canon), Alvar Hanso explains the Valenzetti Equation, which predicts when the world will end: in 27 years. DHARMA was founded to change the values underlying one of the numbers and save the world.

        So, cool, math geek-ism + apocalyptic predictions = very cool plot line, the numbers are everywhere, they are presented as one the major plot points of the show, what could it mean? So, we get to season 6 and we are LITERALLY TOLD that they mean nothing by Jacob, a character that didn’t even exist until the end of season 5 and a character that ultimately didn’t mean anything, he’s totally replaceable by Jack and Hugo and….. They weren’t even consistent with their own story! To go from “the world will end in 27 years” to “Whatevs, dude, no big deal” is insulting.

        You don’t get why people are mad and disappointed by that kind of stuff? That we’re starting to question why Darlton were such fame whores, had their mugs everywhere and spread out-and-out lies to the fanbase? That we trusted a dude (Damon) whose resume consisted of producing 27 episodes (!!) of a typical doctor show (Crossing Jordan and another (Carlton) whose main claim to fame was a producer on a standard cop show (Nash Bridges), that they had no track record in genre/sci-fi/mystery?


        • Henry Holland

          Sorry, I hit the reply button under icy_one’s comment and it posted under RichPundits, I was replying to icy_one.

        • whateverhappenedhappened

          on a whim (i have done no math regarding the matter), when was the Sri Lanka video?

          It would be cool if it was 27 years before the cork stuff… that might make sense…

          • RichPundit

            HMmmmm WhatEverHappenedHappened, I used to spend much time creating, researching, collaborating and analyzing interesting assertions like the one you just proposed.

            However, there no longer is any point cuz we all now know that these events never mattered. They simply happened for no reason in spite of Locke’s, followed by Jack’s repeated claims to the contrary, eh?

            I continue to believe that our talented, collaborative LOST fandom could have connected the many LOST mysteries and mythologies, and created satisfying answers and a grand solution mosaic. Obviously, Darlton didn’t even bother … imho, neither should we.

          • Henry Holland

            The Sri Lanka Video is Copyright 1975 The Hanso Foundation. Here’s the problem though: it’s never said what conclusion Valenzetti came to, that 27 years I mentioned was what Damon said it was. Again, relying on the totally unreliable Darlton for an answer! But Valenzetti completed the equation in 1963 + 27 = 1990, roughly the time of The Purge (which is another mess of a plotline!). It meant the end of the world for the people “that ended up in that ditch”, the rest of us, not so much. 🙂

            Rams, I never took the Equation to be “mumbo-jumbo”, it is what is (see: The Drake Equation), but what interested me is that Hanso and The DeGroots *believed it*. One of the things that really attracted me to the show after John watches the Swan Orientation video in Orientation (season 2, ep. 3) is how it portrayed through the DHARMA Initiative the idealism of the 60’s. We all know how that turned out. It’s a subject that interests this kid who was 10 the year of Woodstock and had total hippie sisters and turned 21 just as Reagan had been elected and who was a hippie with short hair and regular showers. 🙂

            We never met Hanso or the DeGroots and that’s a shame, I think.

        • Rams

          I never liked the Valenzetti equation mumbo-jumbo. The world would end of the numbers were not manipulated and changed? That’s not Science, it’s Science-Fiction (aka make-believe). I was much more satisfied with the numbers corresponding to Candidates that the other one. And we can easily combine the two concepts- they are not mutually exclusive.

        • icy_one

          The numbers weren’t a major plot point. For crying out loud, the summer ARGs aren’t even canon.

          The numbers are symbols of fate. Look at all the times in the show you saw the numbers on a clock or on a speedometer. They were notes for YOU not for the characters. There was no hidden number conspiracy. They were just numbers. Just like the producers said all along.

          See, the problem is that Damon and Carlton would tell you the truth and you immediately rejected it, because “oh, that doesn’t fit what I think I’m seeing.”

          “I didn’t actually create a rabbit in this hat, it was in a secret compartment.”
          “I don’t believe you.”
          “He never did explain how he created a rabbit in a hat.”

          You’re a bad viewer. Honestly, you should throw out your television. You ruin television for those of us capable of digesting a narrative and identifying which items are plot-driving and which are (interesting or not) side stories.

          If you’re so hyped on the numbers, why not get equally hyped on Juliet’s brand? That was never explained. Maybe Geronimo Jackson? Never explained. Brand new washer/dryer in the hatch? You’re so picky about what you think is crucial to the show that you’re missing the show. Forest for the trees. Lost is the worst fandom ever. You make Twilight fans look downright reasonable.

          • Henry Holland

            For crying out loud, the summer ARGs aren’t even canon

            From Lostpedia (Damon): I would say in terms of all the… background that we did, in terms of the Valenzetti equation and explaining the formation of the Hanso Foundation and doing the other films…we’d consider that stuff canon to the show

            So, you’re wrong from the get-go, why should I take your opinion seriously? Another way the two dorks screwed up, all the confusion between “canon” and “not canon”.

            The numbers are symbols of fate. Look at all the times in the show you saw the numbers on a clock or on a speedometer. They were notes for YOU not for the characters. There was no hidden number conspiracy. They were just numbers. Just like the producers said all along.

            Well, except when they were saying they were canon to the show. Jeebus.

            You’re a bad viewer. Honestly, you should throw out your television. You ruin television for those of us capable of digesting a narrative and identifying which items are plot-driving and which are (interesting or not) side stories.

            Right, that would be the numbers that were the total focus of one of the main characters (Hugo) for three effing seasons, the focus of research for an entire organization that provided the spine of the story for seasons 2 & 3 etc. Jeebus. I’m perfectly capable of separating the two, don’t blame me because Darlton hyped things like crazy and then when the fans ACTUALLY GOT INVESTED AND INTENSE about those pulled their bullshit “Hahahaha, only kidding” crap.

            If you’re so hyped on the numbers, why not get equally hyped on Juliet’s brand? That was never explained. Maybe Geronimo Jackson? Never explained. Brand new washer/dryer in the hatch?

            Hilarious. You’re comparing those things to something that was hyped beyond belief as central to the mystery of the show and the focus of games and ARG’s. And *I* have trouble “identifying which items are plot-driving and which are (interesting or not) side stories.”??? Hahahahahaha.

    • DocArzt

      Rich, I’m not even sure what you are referencing.

  • RichPundit

    HMmmm DocArzt, thought I was very clear, even somewhat succinct in my conclusions … apparently not. Please be more specific.

    Bottomline imho, the LOST PTBs particularly Darlton, intentionally presented wonderful LOST mysteries/mythology for 6 years, and intensely hyped them with promised answers including an overall solution mosaic. As you know as a direct result, I as well as many others including you, believed and were in awe of their creative talents, and invested countless hours trying to solve their puzzle with much research and collaboration. We now know that there never were “satisfying answers” or solution mosaic … we were clearly scammed without regret! This is clearly an integrity issue for the LOST PTBs, particularly Darlton.

    In addition, my comment is that LOST sites like yours continue to fascinate me with the pile of radically different povs of rabid fans including me, analagous in my mind to various rabid political and religious fans. Hence, interesting core human behaviour.

    I’ll stop visiting/posting on your and other sites when the postings become only vanilla, particularly if opposing povs become subject to personal “nasty attacks” by other posters unable to accept radically different povs, even if based on clear facts. Conservative Republicans never read the NYTimes, and Liberal Democrats never read the Weekly Standard, eh? I read and enjoy both and much more!

    • DocArzt

      Well you actually made some pretty solid analogies there that hopefully get to the crux of why fish publishing here was actually a good thing. There is no “all losties are alike” fantasy world where we are united in our love of the show. The love of the show is the single thing we all have in common, but that doesn’t mean we are a mutual admiration society.

      As you point out, society is full of fiercely differing belief systems. I’ve never sought to censor my contributors or commentators to make it ‘appear’ any different. I agree with you, the day we all agree is the day this conversation isn’t worth having.

      • bplenc

        that is a LIE. i know for a fact that some fellow losties have had their IP addresses BANNED from this site for comments about the FB post.

        please Doc, you posted a doc jensen article and then FB which bashes him and accuses him of being ont he payroll of the PTB.

        not to mention what she mentions about DarkUfo. Neither of you negative nellys belong in this Lost world.

        You are the crude oil in the beautiful gulf that is the Lost fandom.

        • RichPundit

          Whew, idk but my guess is that there are more relevant details about IPs banned that are totally unrelated to Fish who no doubt contributed much to our LOST fandom and our LOST pleasures. Trashing both Doc and Fish makes no sense 2me, albeit think some constructive criticism is likely welcomed by both.

          The LOST PTBs, particularly Darlton, clearly intentionally betrayed us with no remorse, and have earned forever trashing for their despicable behaviours for greedy, personal fortune.

          • bplenc

            oh please get over yourself.

            sue them why dont you.


          • RichPundit

            No doubt most reasonable people would agree that an individual who frequently revisits a website and quickly trashes the site owner/host, article authors and posters who share their povs related to the site is much worse than PATHETIC … am very sorry 4u, and wish you a healthy recovery!

          • bplenc

            right and those that think that they were BETRAYED by television producers are normal.

            forever trashing? despicable behaviour? greedy?

            you are on a whole other planet, brotha.


    • DocArzt

      Oh and I apologize. I thought you were referencing something I said, on second read I see that’s not the case. 😀

    • icy_one

      “This show is about people who are metaphorically lost in their lives, who get on an airplane, and crash on an island, and become physically lost on the planet Earth. And once they are able to metaphorically find themselves in their lives again, they will be able to physically find themselves in the world again. When you look at the entire show, that’s what it will look like. That’s what it’s always been about.” – Lost co-creator Damon Lindelof, IGN interview, January 16, 2007

      Again, I like how you’re somehow “allowed” to make nasty attacks against the writers but you’re off-limits from receiving them. Dish it out, but can’t take it. Hypocrite.

      • RichPundit

        Namaste, eh?

  • Jessica Lynn

    Never posted a comment on this site, but visit regularly and need some direct feedback maybe from DocArzt.
    Was the universe course-correcting throughout the Losties’ time on the island.
    Example: I say the bomb detonated and time-shifted at the same time because when next we see Kate she’s in a tree. Something blew her there, hence the bomb went off. But Richard said he saw them all die. Did course-correction happen?

    Did Keamy reappear after being killed BECAUSE Desmond saved Charlie’s life again? did the universe course-correct itself, because Charlie was supposed to die and needed Keamy to make it happen?

    Did the Oceanic 6, plus Lapidus and Desmond, survive what would have otherwise been an unsurvivable helicopter crash, if not for course-correction?

    Why I keep saying course-correction is because I always look for the answers in the dialogue, so I’ve landed on Eloise’s explanation to Desmond in FBYE.

    I guess I’m mostly stuck on The Incident and what Richard said and then these other two events came to mind.
    Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

  • Jessica Lynn

    Didn’t mean Keamy. Sorry. I meant Mikhail “Patchy”

  • Juliets Muffins

    That FB article is a disgrace, not necessarily because of its thesis (which I disagree with) but the way it insults the entire Lost community including people like Doc Jensen and DarkUFO who have been such an important part of the Lost fandom, that list would have included Doc Arzt if she did not intend to get it up on this site. Seriously doc how can you allow (and effectively endorse) calling Doc Jensen being in the ‘payroll of TPTB’?

    • Rams

      I completely agree with you. Such insults should simply not have been tolerated.

    • Henry Holland

      Because they used him to reveal one of the glyphs in the Lost Experience? Does he have a payroll number at Bad Robot? Probably not, but he and Kristen were certainly used to spread rumors, information and not-truths. I was always uncomfortable with how chummy those two seemed with Darlton and Kristen’s constant gushing about their genius was squick inducing. Is it really so unthinkable that people would think they were compromised?

      As for DarkUFO, *if* her accusations about his stalker-ish behavior are true, he’s really a saddo. There’s no doubt he often stole stuff without giving credit or only doing so when he was busted in his comments but the way he casually spoiled the end of season 3 was really screwed up.

      Just like I never got the rock star adulation for Darlton as Supreme Geniuses of TV, I never got the reverence for Doc Jensen, Kristen, DocArtz, Vozzek, Marc O., DarkUFO or any of the other commetariat personalities that popped up over the years. I agreed with them sometimes, didn’t others, but my main source of info was Lostpedia because at least it is sourced like a decent Wiki should be. I always operate on the premise The Clash used in London Calling:

      London calling
      But don’t look to us
      Phony Beatlemania
      Has bitten the dust

  • joe_bones

    the map is an AWESOME effort…. but i would disagree with a few things. firstly, the bamboo field where jack landed after the plane crash was just a short jog inland from the 815 fuselage.

    secondly, the beach survivors’ camp was built AROUND the wreckage of 815, not a few miles down the beach.

    • Henry Holland

      No, remember when they had to move because the ocean was washing away the camp? They may have taken bits of the plane, but the map is correct on the location.

  • joe_bones

    regarding fb’s article, “beyond the valley of the superhaters,” i agree with her that the finale was A) sloppy and B) unsatisfying. i disagree that the ending ruined the show altogether. and i wholeheartedly disagree that the show had been sloppy for a while before the end. i only disliked the flash-sideways. i think they could have been removed altogether and season 6 would have been vastly improved.

    firstly, i noticed some pretty silly errors on fb’s part. fb seems to think there was some production error or ret-conning about kate’s name in jacob’s cave?? kate’s name was crossed off the wall of the cave. it was never not crossed off. they even state that blankly on the show. zero ambiguity. and i hate to be nitpicky but its philip k dick not v.

    but the thing everyone here takes umbrage with is fb’s assertion that no one could have actually liked the finale. this is preposterous. i found the entirety of the flash-sideways to be cloying and tedious, and its conclusion to be retarded…. but surely others could love it on its merits.

    i find myself agreeing with some of her sentiments (i agree that the supposedly character-centric purgatory ending actually did almost nothing to service the characters) while vehemently disagreeing with other ideas (i loved across the sea!)

    even if you enjoyed the finale, you have to admit it did very little to actually resolve the characters’ core dilemmas (they all go to heaven doesnt actually resolve anything) to say nothing of the show’s core mysteries. but fb takes it a little too personally when she says no one could ever have enjoyed the final episode or that the finale ruined the entire show, thus wasting years of her life.

    lastly, fb’s complaints about the producer’s behind-the-scenes antics with reporters have no place in a proper discussion of the finale. yes, they made arrogant statements. yes, they teased viewers and played games. maybe they are boobs in real life. i think it is irrelevant. the show speaks for itself. every show does.

  • milo

    Did anyone even read the whole article from FB? One of the biggest wastes of space I’ve seen anywhere online much less this site. Might as well have just posted “IT SUCKED!!!!” over and over again (with a bunch of “funny” pictures thrown in). Wow, talk about self indulgence. And comments turned off so nobody could respond? Nah, that’s not the tiniest bit cowardly.

    Doc, I don’t know what you were thinking, but that “article” had nothing to say and was just tacky, and it makes your whole site look bad. Seriously, you have no obligation to post every rambling whine that is sent to you.