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Locke Lives. Long Live Locke.

By docarzt,

  Filed under: Lost
  Comments: 41

105beb5One of the most exciting things to come from the LOST Comic Con panel this year was the total lack of Locke.  Oh, there was plenty of Locke there:  Locke with his back turned to us in the Season 6 promo art, and ‘Terry O’Quinn as ???’ in the opening sequence parody. Subtle hints, but what do they mean?  There wasn’t as much as a peep on the subject from Darlton and crew.  Nothing.  And damn you audience members.  How can you ask about the pallet drops, and whether man number two is Esau but not whether John Locke will be back… as John Locke?  My theory is those questions were screened out, because Locke’s fate and disposition are one of the biggest surprises they have planned for us.  There was one humongous clue, in my opinion, that indicates that John is alive and well in season 6.

The in memorium video for deceased characters notably skipped Locke.  Why?  Why show Gary Troup, but not Locke?  Simple.  Locke is not dead.  This may seem obvious for those of you who have already accepted the notion that the “Jughead Solution” was successful, and therefore all deaths were undone – but, color me bullheaded, I haven’t accepted that as an iron clad solution, regardless of what John Walsh says.

Regardless of whether it is obvious or not, I find it intriguing that Locke was not mentioned once in the panel.

  • JimBonJovi

    Those ads were such obvious misdirection. Don’t count Locke out yet.

  • RICHARD: Over, uh, twenty years ago, a man named John Locke, he walked right into our camp. And he told me that he was going to be our leader. Now I’ve gone off the Island three times, to visit him. But he never seemed particularly special to me.
    JACK: You said you had a question.
    RICHARD: You know him? Locke?
    JACK: [chuckles] Yeah. Yeah, I know him. And if I were you, I wouldn’t give up on him.

    While I watched ‘The Incident’ I had the feeling that Jacks answer was directed at us, the audience, and not just Richard…

    So, I will not give up on John 😉

  • d00by

    AFAIK, Dead is Dead.

    I abhor this idea of alternate timeline resetting everything we have invested as viewers for the past 5 seasons.

    I hope Lost does not go that way.

    • This fits well with what Matthew Fox said in Cannes…
      The opening scene in Season 6 will confirm what happened in the Season 5 Finale (Jughead exploded) and that it will be both confusing and surprising at first. What can confuse and surprise us? They are all alive and well, and happy.

      About a third of the way through the season both time lines will be “solidified into one time” and there will be one linear time throughout the story on the island with no more flashbacks.

      Okay, which two timelines? Timeline B, without the swan, with no Desmond pushing the button and no 815 crash, with Timeline A, but at which point between season one and five will the collapse happen?

      Maybe when Desmond turns the failsafe key in Timeline A.…

      • kev

        great idea, ive been thinking that, 2 timeline join to one after someone said they will settle about midway through the season at one time/point.. would be ace if was linked back to why desmond was naked and could see the future?

      • neoloki aka Ben’sbleedingkidney

        This is an idea with many authors that has been explored on numerous Lost blogs and will be a prominent part of our discourse over the next 5 months.

      • Hexonxonx

        You know what else would confuse and surprise us? If Jughead went off and all of the characters were dead.

      • Yeah, definitely two timelines that at some point join together. Faraday says that time is like a thread, but that you can never create a new thread, right? But what if you could have this thread composed of many different “fibers” that given certain circumstances could differ substantially, but still tending to lead to a “same” future, and thus, keep time as a single thread. With the correct wording, this could be lead into a “shrodinger’s timeline”, where both timelines actually exist together in “different intensities of probability”. This tendency then would be the infamous “course correction”. I am buying into the possibility of certain bizarre physical experiments (like blowing an a-bomb besides a Casimir effect) could lead to certain entities experimenting more than one of those sub-threads at the same time, that is, some people being brought back in time and re-living their lives with the previous memories. The problem would be the lack of ageing, which we could also deus-ex-machina out saying for example that “course correcting” puts you into the extremely low probability that your cells simply randomly resolved not to die all at once, which would explain the eyeliner guy. This reasoning also explain Miss Hawkins saying that she doesn’t know what’s going to happen “for the first time in a long time” or something like that: she would be at the end of living a big period of her life for the second time. This could also lead to Jacob and Man-in-Black not being aliens, but merely two people that had been trapped into this time-loop thing for a long time. (Please no aliens! Please no alien! Please no aliens!) But to tell the truth, as things stand, we can’t really know, can we? PS didn’t see that Cannes thing, will check, thanks.

        • Good points, baraco.
          I still don’t want to start to guess about how the timelines will be fused into one, because Damon is exposed to JJs quantum mechanical Trek view, and then again the Fringe season finale opened another box of Schroedingers cats.
          Regarding Eloise Hawking and her knowledge of future events I always expected her sons journal to be the source for that…

          • hiroki

            Yes. I think so too. Eloise Hawking (and Charles Widmore) really wished to bring his son back from its destiny. She knew Daniel will be killed by own hand before he was born. I think that Eloise madly wished and planned how to change the destiny to NOT killing Daniel when he was born. Maybe She did consult with Richard Alpart and Jacob regarding how to bring her son back from killing him by own hand. When Daniel was born, Eloise knew everything happened until how Daniel came to the island at 1977 thru his journal.

          • Ament

            There is no one thing that really change events but the term used frequently is “course correction” and “destiny” so WHH. There has not been one break in the circle just yet, but we all know in order to end the show their has to be ONE variable which is exactly what Jacob told MiB “It only ends once”. Is Claire’s bird the variable is that a hint from comic-con, is that who’s coming?

    • Mack

      It is possible to have an alternate time line and retain all the previous events or at least the memory of them. The original timeline we have experienced for the past six years was obviously flawed. The most likely outcome of the original timeline is that humanity perishes and that is a fate that was unacceptable. This is the end that Jacob was talking about and attempting to avoid.

      Unfortunately, for humanity, events could not be changed to avoid man’s annihilation because of course correction, that is, unless you fool fate into accepting a new timeline. Fooling fate/time is done by changing certain elements of the time line while keeping elements of the old timeline. Essentially both timelines would exist simultaneously, one layer upon the other. I believe this can only be done by using the island’s properties.

      By successfully altering the timeline, the world outside the island continues on, different enough to prevent a cataclysmic end of humanity. On the island, those individuals touched by Jacob and part of the original time line continue to exist, either physically or as mind entities.

      Alternatively, these individuals could continue to exist outside the island but retain elements of from the previous timeline within their consciousness. The difference between the body traveling through time and the mind is crucial. We have seen both on Lost. Jack and companies bodies might very well have been destroyed in the blast, but I would bet their minds were not. There have been many instances on Lost of the mind being separated from the body, and I believe these are clues.

      How does Jacob fit into this? Think of Jacob’s plan as grafting a limb from one fruit tree on to the trunk of another fruit tree, or if it is easier think of it as organ transplantation. When an organ is transplanted there is high probability that the organ will be rejected by the recipient. The body sees the new organ as a foreign entity and will attack the organ as if it were a disease.

      Transplant drugs are used to suppress the action of the immune system enough to allow the transplant to be successful. Fate works much the same way. If you attempt to change or modify time, fate acting as time’s immune system will attack the changes and course correct. Fate/time must be tricked into accepting the transplantation. Again, this is done by layering realities contrary to resetting.

      • This actually dovetails nicely with the scenario I’ve been kicking around in my head for season 6.

        The time line is “reset.” Everyone lives slightly different lives, but those touched by Jacob manage to hold on to at least some memory of the events we’ve seen in “our” time line. Each of these characters may have hallucinations, dreams, fragments of memory that make them think they are crazy. Some of them ignore the memories, while others adapt a little more easily. Maybe those with these memories remember enough to know they must get to the Island because they “have work to do.” Others may doubt their “other” memory and their sanity. All this leads up to one spectacular moment – Jack, with the strongest memories and urge to go back, shows up at the door of a man he has “never met,” a man named John Locke. This crazy, ranting doctor has to talk a rational and level headed John Locke into going to the Island.

        I can’t wait.

        • Iwantmykidneyback

          wow I also kicked around the idea of the locke/jack role reversal. I just hope if this happens that Locke will end up being his old beastly self. but I think they are the 2 characters this season and the show itself have to be built on.

        • stweedle

          Oh man not another “We have to go back!”

          • Mack

            you need to go back under the rock you crawled out from. Just kidding.

  • RodimusBen

    I agree that it was VERY conspicuous that Locke wasn’t mentioned once at the panel, especially not by the fans (I agree they were screened).

    @d00by, The idea of a reset doesn’t have to be that black and white. read my blog at for a theory on how they can do a reset without completely invalidating five seasons of the show.

  • briguyx

    Then again, you can’t really base anything on whether Locke was included in the “In Memoriam” video, considering Charlie was featured and Dom’s on stage appearance is a pretty good indicator that he’s coming back in some capacity…

  • RodimusBen

    Correct me if I’m remembering incorrectly, but I don’t think Juliet had a bit in the video either. I think anyone whose fate was uncertain at the end of “The Incident” was not included– don’t forget Sayid had been shot as well. Charlie WAS dead, for certain, two seasons ago, so even if he comes back via a reset in season 6, it doesn’t change the fact that he died earlier in the show.

    What the exclusion of Locke indicates is that we are meant to be uncertain about his fate.

    • Dan

      Other people that were excluded include keami, the captain of the freighter, horace, christian shepherd, etc…

  • Heidi

    I’m thinking about all the chance interactions that occurred during S1 and S2 flashbacks, like Kate’s Step Dad and Kelvin both being in the Gulf War with Sayid, like Sawyer having food at the diner where Kate’s mom waitressed, like Kate bumping into Cassidy, like Jack saving Sarah and walking right by Shannon, etc, etc. We may be going to see everyone walk off that plane in LAX but then somehow all come together again in the US. The interconnectedness thing has to come back into play somehow. IMO.

    • Iwantmykidneyback

      that would be awesome if the connectedness ended up playing an important role.

    • Ament

      I think the flashbacks was the writers showing the connection to them crashing on the island and the idea of fate or faith made this happen, they were all destined to be part of each other’s lives in some way.

      BTW was it cleared that the man in the SUV Sarah crashed into was Shannon’s dad, or assumed?

      • That was cleared, ‘Abandoned’ Season 2 episode 6…

  • Mack

    Thank you doc for posting a little something for the Locke fans.

  • jacksbeard

    I don’t think the article should have this kind of title with so little evidence. It seems like a lot of people from the previous seasons are coming back. Faraday is shown in the poster while we know he got shot by his mama. There are too many possibilities to look over until you can say for sure that JL is back and alive. I’m a Locke fan myself, but i’m the kinda guy who waits for concrete evidence to say that JL lives.

  • UK Parting Words aka Warzo

    I think maybe that because they have told us that all these characters are coming back and they have something new planned for us in terms of story telling that we might see both timelines. Like they might make it where we dont know whats going on or what one is real. A bit like fringe.

  • UK Parting Words aka Warzo

    How else would the dead characters come back.

  • Scottc13

    I think there were a lot of omissions in the memorium video, that could spark interest. What about Patchy? Horace? Those are two that were pretty prominent characters that came to mind. I am sure we can all think of more.

  • l-i-v-n

    has anybody considered the possibility of not two different timelines (i’m just ignoring the commercials) and that maybe the return of past characters is because they ARE dead? we’ve seen plenty of ‘dead’ spirits around the island. i think these characters are coming back for sure, but i don’t think they’re coming back as living, breathing characters in an alternate timeline. my gut tells me that they’re the dead spirits of these characters and we’ll seem them just as we saw claire, christian, ben’s mom, etc all throughout the series.

  • DustinCahill

    I’m still pulling that the Man in Black somehow has always been Locke, and that it has to do with Locke turning the wheel while the statue was still standing (though the possible range of when that was is definetly ambigously expansive).

    The question would then becomes how would Locke be able to change bodies into MIB, as well as presuambly others as he impacts various events across time on the Island before traveling to 2007 Off-Island (after Jacob’s killing and events in the finale season), and then recruits Widmore to find him in the desert, eventually being killed by Ben?

    Just kidding.

  • preztige2k6

    I’m telling you, three are three different John Lockes. I am sure of it. Seperate timelines that intertwine in a manner that is unimaginable

    • A good panel question that was not asked is:

      “Did we see more than one Timeline already beween ‘Pilot, Part 1’ and ‘The Incident Part 2’ ?”

      • Mack

        So your saying you weren’t satisfied with the questions: will Faraday have children and is the man in black named Esau? I thought asking about the pallet drop was a very insightful question. I am sure glad someone asked about that. What really make me sad was that no one asked about Libby for the hundredth time. Can you sense the sarcasm? Some of the questions were ridiculous. I am sure they screened the questions but come on, they could have come up with something beter.

        • I was joking. The panel was great, and even without screening it’s tough to come up with a good question at exciting moments like that.
          The Dharma Food Drop is as important as where the hatch went after
          Desmond turned the key.

          And I expect that season six will be like all the others…
          full of awesome surprises.

          • Mack

            I was joking too.

  • Ament

    There is only one timeline and can only be one. I understand all aspects of a second but it can’t happen, even though they are in 77′ that is THEIR future, what ever age they were in 2004 they are 3 years older in 77′. The Desmond episode with mental time travel is the only way to link their memories. I believe RA was right and said to Sun they all died…in 77′. When Desmond woke covered in paint he remembered the island, vaguely, but he remembered. Tieing S1 to S6 is them waking up in the jungle after 815 crash with vague memories of the events in 77′ and anything previous. It would eliminate Sayid from being shot so he doesn’t have to be killed off. Sun would know where the alive Jacob is to continue that story line and it would continue the idea of WHH without people getting killed off at least not right away.

  • Ament

    Open Minded Theory

    The polar bear in tunisia desert suggests the bear left the island the same way Ben and Locke showed us perhaps as a test subject for the Orchard and thats why DI made that elaborate machine to get food, so they learn to push the wheel. The fact that the bear ended up in the distant past suggests animals also time traveled.

    When Claire wrote the note and placed it on the bird, it was not specific regarding time and technology stand point so if at any TIME someone received that message it could still be taken as a call for help. What IF the bird didn’t leave the island at the time we thought and actually left during one of the time shifts (specifaclly when the statue was first shown to us) and ended up being the reason why the Black Rock came to the island…way out there but it would be insane in the WHH circle.

    • Ament

      *correction* Was wrong about the specific part She did mention flight and 815, but all else applies.

  • Cutter XXIII

    Just finished the Season 1 finale last night (I guess we’re ahead on the rewatch), and it sure seems like the moment they opened up the Swan was when everything went wrong. Both Walt and Hurley urge Locke not to open it.

    That, and the bit where they’re wrapping TNT, Locke “zings” Jack with the Operation! noise, and Jack asks disgustedly, “You like playing games, Locke?”

    “Oh yeah…” Locke smiles. Unfortunately, his whole story is an elaborate game of Mousetrap, and he’s the mouse.

    Something about the aforementioned details makes me think S6 might start over with the 815 crash, and those who were touched by Jacob retained some memories. The whole idea is that this time they won’t get duped (by the MiB) into opening the hatch. They can focus on bigger issues.

    Either that…or they all wake up in the Swan crater, and Whatever Happened, Happened.

    • If the crash happens again in Timeline B Jugheads core killed our timetravellers, but failed to release the pocket of energy… There must be more to Jacobs touch than the retaining of memory from one universe to the next. Why should he visit some folks as kids, some as grownups, in various stages of the story?

      There are tiny pieces missing, like where did he hatch go after the turning of the failsafe key, into another universe? Or did the hatch stay where it was, and LOST moved between universes at the end of season 2 for the first time? What was wrong with Faradays rocket, where did the time.discrepancy come from? Where the freighter satphones quantum-entangled to each other, is that the reason for that the gizmos could only talk to each other, as Lapidus pointed out?