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Lost News – Damon Blasts Back Over “Kevin Johnson” Criticism

By docarzt,

  Filed under: Lost News
  Comments: 55

250px-Damon_Lindelof.jpgIn an interview with The AV club, Damon showed his human side when it comes to all of arm-chair showrunners in the Lost world:

"We find that the boards can be really toxic, nobody goes on the boards to say: ‘Wow! That was awesome!’ Traditionally, they go on the boards to nitpick and say, ‘Oh, I don’t understand how Michael could have gotten off the island, gotten back to New York, parked Walt, then got indoctrinated by Friendly all in a month’."

I have to admit, I feel a little guilty reading that since I basically strung ‘Kevin Johnson’ up in the town square.  But, in general, I feel bad for the big guys if they think we hard core fans are not just in total love with the show.   If anything, I think our passion sometimes  tempers what would normally be the slight discomfort of expectations not being met into a deep and acidic rant.  That’s definitely the case with my assesment of Kevin Johnson weeks back.  I’m fond of saying the worst episode of LOST is better than anything else on television.

That said, is it really nitpicking?  I have to challenge Damon here.  In most cases I would say the fandom can be a pack of acid-spitting sloths with no real appreciation for the delicate craftsmanship of story telling.  We are a noisy, demanding, one way street that passes through a bad neighborhood and rarely tries to understand what is happening on the other side of town.  With Johnson, the idea of not being able to die off the island was ment to be the episode’s contribution to the mythology.

What Damon, and noone else, could have anticipated is the level of ‘certainity’ that developed within the fan community that the circumstances of Michael’s return and his embedding in the freighter crew would be where the mythological expansion would take place.  I would go as far as to say that most fans were speculating about ‘how’ instead of ‘why’, and then when it was revealed that it ‘just happened’ the pot boiled over.

Of course, this is all rank speculation.  The point being, Damon… if you’re listening… we’re not ‘toxic’ as much as we are high on our own fumes, expectations, and speculations.  I think there is plenty of outright admiration being given to the show in the fan community.  LOST has generated a fan community like no other.  The thoughtfullness and intelligence of the community never ceases to amaze me, and over the years it has truly become a mid-world between the casual viewers and the actual creation of the show.

The fact that our expectations can become so galvanized by our own speculations that we passionately disagree with story choices in a testament to the IQ of the fans that LOST attracts, and more importantly the capacity for stimulation that the show possesses.

  • bosblinkboy

    I think everyone was too hard on Meet Kevin Johnson. It was a damn good plot twist that just happened to be ruined by two outside factors: first, we were forced to treat it almost like a season finale when it should have just been another episode if it weren’t for the strike. Second, everyone who gets online to read about the show knew exactly who was on the boat because they announced he was coming back. If you take away the strike and all the media stuff about michael coming back so it wasn’t given away it would have been awesome so that’s the way I look at it. I have friends who were just catching up on the show and watching them back to back and saw that one with no anticipations and it blew their mind and I guarantee if anyone of us were to just be watching the show on dvd after the entire series was over for the first time we would have loved it too.

  • Henry Holland

    I’ll give you this, Doc, at least you were upfront about why you didn’t like the episode: because you had it pre-written in your head and damn them! they didn’t follow YOUR script. Great post Bosblinkboy, I agree with all of that. There’s such a disconnect between online fanatics like us and people that simply watch the show for 42 minutes (+ commercials); all the people I know in the latter category were blown away too. I loved it, it was bleak and death-obsessed, just like I like the show to be.

    What Damon, and noone else, could have anticipated is the level of ‘certainity’ that developed within the fan community that the circumstances of Michael’s return and his embedding in the freighter crew would be where the mythological expansion would take place

    Maybe I go to the wrong online sites, but the only place I saw that was here and in some threads on the Fuselage. It’s hilarious to see people who read all the spoilers, watch all the 3 minute clips, have spies on set etc. get it totally wrong. I watch the promo clip after the preceding episode, look at the promo photos (to see if there’s any good Michael Emerson ones) and that’s it, it’s made watching the show so much more enjoyable.

  • mike

    In the end, nothing – and I mean nothing – should be expected from something. When that happens, disappointment damn near always seems to rear its ugly head. That’s why I always go in on something with no expectations. I think that’s why I enjoy more things than others, be it a TV show, a movie, a book, an album, a meal, a job, etc.

    All in all though, Meet Kevin Johnson still never stated HOW Michael got back to the mainland. That’s why I don’t get this. It’s not like we actually saw what happened and all it was was Michael and Walt reaching a port and going home. If that’s what ends up being the case, than I will say that THAT part of the story is anti-climatic. But, MKJ was not about how and when they went back home. It was about why Michael had to go back.


  • MerlboroMan

    I did not have a problem with episode…upon initial viewing. But once I started thinking about the timeline…specifically when Tom appeared off island and I had to wonder, was this before or after Sawyer shot him (because we saw Charlie off island in the season premiere) then a lot of that episodes structue began to unravel. I hoped that it would somehow get worked into the freaky time travel that happened to/from the island, but alas…
    Now, I don’t go online to bash Lost. I hold this show in high regard. Anyone who reads my articles on this site knows that I respect the writers of this show tremendously. With that said…come the fuck on. When you screw up, admit to it and move on. I’m willing to let “Meet Kevin Johnson” go with a “can’t win them all,” but you can’t praise your fans for following your intricate storyline then piss on them when they call you out. Damon needs to just let it go. And if he feels the boards are “toxic” then let me ask, which boards are you going to?

  • Desmundo

    True dat M&M

  • aliasrox

    Damon yer amazing! The show is amazing! Forgive our nit picking, it’s only because of the passion we have for a show we love. This show permeates my daily life. It’s sad for me reallly. 🙂

    Lost Spoiler

  • docarzt

    Henry… I’m being general, of course, but I truly come away from the pre-Kevin Johnson experience from the perspective of people breaking down the time-line and expecting something to explain the very minute window that Ben would have to work in with Michael.

    But one thing, for sure… this isn’t meant to be critical of Damon. I just think he mistakes the passion out here for unprovoked hating. Being on the flip side of that coin, it’s easy to understand why fans get momentarily flustered… but none of us walk away with contempt for the show.

  • David

    This “toxic” comment is being way misinterpreted. All Damon is saying is that if you spend too much time focusing on the ideas, comments, and critcisms on fan message boards your focus will stray too far from what’s really important and what your real plans are (the plans the fans don’t even know about). So losing that focus and getting caught up in all the little details that fans are so into, positive or negative, can be toxic to the quality of the overall writing process.

  • bosblinkboy

    merlboro first, chill out. second, “when you screw up, admit it and move on” um I seem to remember them admitting they made a mistake and moving on with nikki and paulo which by the way they added because people on message boards and stuff were bitching and not seeing other castaways so they were trying to please us and still accepted blame. He’s not ‘admitting he was wrong’ because it’s not like it’s general knowledge it was a mistake. even if it was whose to say they have to apologize when they have to admit everything…they are already more involved with their fanbase than any other writers on television why do you expect him to admit a mistake even though he didn’t feel it was one…just because you though it was one? weird.

  • Samfishercell

    Comon Damon! As much as I respect his opinions, I see so much love poured out on Lost week after week. (Just pay attention to the standard first sentence or two of the fan questions posted for the podcast, or the questions asked at Comicon).

    I would wager to say the nitpicking of MKJ was due to the fact that people usually tend to go to the boards and say “That was awesome!” and then delve through an episode for clues. I’ll admit, I was hard on MKJ too, but I still feel that it didn’t “mesh” with the standards of Lost. Then again, who knows that will be revealed later on down the road.

    I think the people who are bringing the true nitpicking/hate are the morons who watched one season on DVD, and then catch one out of every 5 episodes and go on rants about how “the writers are making it up as they go along,” and shouting “what the heck is up with the polar bears!”

    Also: Expose rates as one of my somewhat-favorite episodes of Lost for multiple reasons. I liked the contained story and seeing things from other perspectives, but the I think a lot of the hilarity lays “beyond the 4th wall.” I think it is absolutely hilarious that some people begged and begged to see more of the red shirts, and then threw a hissyfit when they were finally introduced. Also I loved how the episode was subtly used to address certain things: for example, the absence of black floating “smoke” debris during the crash scene 😉

    So, in closing, I would wager to say that the “nitpicking” Damon described is really due in part to the fact that we’re so used to saying “that was awesome!”…because Lost is awesome.

  • forgiventhewarlord

    I agree with Damon. I know the fans MEAN well, but there’s seriously a Lot of negativity on Lost message boards. I even took a long sabbatical because of it. Even when there’s an Amazing episode the comments are all “It’s about time!!”, it’s just… a toxic environment just like he said.

    I get it though… it’s very hard to just gush for 4 straight years. But, if the only alternative is the rampant nitpickidyishness. Then I vote Gush 2008.

  • Nick

    Damon is exactly right. Some of the nitpicking I see on the some Lost message boards is ridiculous, The Fuselage is especially notorious for this. On that message board every week people are nitpicking about something which did not turn out exactly the way they expected. I mean there are complains about how they have handled Walt which is completely ridiculous, what are the supposed to do? Give the actor growth reducing hormones to prevent puberty?!? Even with TSoTtC, people were nitpicking about the red shirts dying and Sawyer not caring about them, it was clearly meant to be tongue and cheek but some people nitpicked it to death and made a big issue out of it. I think a lot of people are just ruining their own experience by this extensive nitpicking.

  • sk8rpro

    I never have had a problem with MKJ – neither was it my favorite. I watch Lost because it’s the best damn show on television. There are too many mysteries to figure out that WON’T be answered.

    Like a common theme – when disaster happens, like the plane crash or the hatch imploding, the characters are laying on their back showing the eye first.

    I don’t expect Lost to explain everything, otherwise how would it be a mystery show?

    I love how the NEW Lost parody was portrayed on MadTV starring the real Dominic Monaghan. It shows one of the characters, “Bobby Lee” going through demi-lost events, and all of a sudden he wakes up in 2010, not knowing how or what happened in-between, but I won’t give any more details.

    Watch here.

  • Joe Key

    Was an excellent episode, i dont see reason for complaints. I dont even think the creators should be worrying too much about what the “internet fans” think about the show to begin with. It is very very true that the majority of fans only log on and want to complain about tacky issues instead of just taking each episode for what it is: entertainment.
    Creators for any medium should just make what they want, and not worry or respond to what the fans think, theyre not making the show for me or anyone alse, theyre making it because they love their job. Its their creation and shouldnt be presuaded by what people think the show should be.Lost fans can be especially picky, stop complaining and just enjoy the show while it lasts. I feel that any Lost is better than no Lost, even a mediocre episode is better and more creative than most of the stuff the masses are watching nowadays on TV. If you dont like the show dont watch it, i dont see why you would want to sit through the entire show if your going to complain about it after.

  • jackuh

    Here’s the thing, just because MKJ didn’t explain HOW they got to N.Y., that doesn’t mean they won’t in another episode. I’d be willing to bet Damon’s frustration stems from the feeling he has that fans STILL don’t give the writers the benefit of the doubt. And even then, if something is not explained how and/or when the pundits think it should, they pan it. I specifically remember one of the contributers to Doc’s site stating BEFORE MKJ aired that if the “how” of Michael and Walt’s island escape wasn’t explained, they would be disappointed.

  • I definitely see everyone’s point. All too often, I love and episode and then head to the forums and message boards just to see how the show has been nitpicked and torn apart. During analysis, it is just human nature to remember all of the negative comments and brush aside all of the positive ones. Like in my job performance review, I will ignore the 100 good, positive, constructive things my boss will say but won’t let go of the 1 slightly negative thing. On the msg boards and forums, those infrequent negatives tend to stick out and take on a life of their own. Sometimes, we all need to take a step back and realize that if we didn’t absolutely love the show, we wouldn’t be spending so much time discussing it.

  • ErasedSlate

    I will take issue with one point. We often, almost regularly, hit the boards to simply write “that was totally awesome.” That was the refrain for most of the episodes this season. The problem with MKJ is it did not live up to expectations. It did not meet with the mystery that the show itself built up around that episode.

    We had from the second episode of this season confirmation of a time difference. The best episode of the first pod dealt with time travel. It seemed like it was building to a climax for Meet Kevin Johnson. This was not an expectation built on blogs and forums, this was an expectation based evidence from the show itself.

    Anytime you put something out there, it is scary. There is always the danger that someone will criticize what you do. It is nice when you get praise, but when you get criticized it stings. And, you will remember that hurt far longer than the praise. That is how it becomes toxic.

    And in case it hasn’t been said enough, Damon (and Carlton, too) we love you! And, we think this show is totally awesome!

  • 1. Did he really “blast back”? Come on — Sensationalize much?

    2. By “toxic” I don’t think he meant the FANS were toxic, I think he meant it can be toxic to let yourself be pulled in so many directions at once by going on the boards and being flooded by a million opinions.

    3. As someone who takes each episode at face value, the instant we saw Michael already back home, I very quickly and unconsciously chalked “how did he get there” up as a mystery to be answered in another episode. I do this a lot on Lost. It’s no big deal.

    4. My only complaint about the episode is I think it would have worked better dramatically as a flash back and forth like usual, as opposed to one big flashback in the middle of two bookend scenes. It’s a minor quibble, but I whereas I think story structure and character consistency are things worth being concerned about, whether or not they answered the specific question or mystery you were hoping they would should hardly factor into judging an episode of LOST! Come on, we’ve been through four seasons of this! We know the routine!

  • JDSalinger

    I never really understood the hate MKJ got…. yes it wasnt action filled, yes, it didnt answer how Michael & Walt got off the Island, yes,yes, yes….as someone stipulated before I think people we’re expecting a mini cliffhanger…which really was..a mini cliffhanger. in a perfect world the mini season would have ended with last weeks epi..I think critics are essential because they further any debate the “real” fans may have. What I can’t stand are the jack asses who’s sole purpose is to hijack the show & literally spoil the experience…and like a virus everybody jumps on the bangwagon and the slaying starts & spirals out of control…I’d take any “bad” Lost episode over anything on TV now.

  • MerlboroMan

    bosblinky –
    I am thoroughly chilled. I read the post in the context it was written. There was a mistake in the episode. If there wasn’t, why bring it up as an example? I just let the episode go and tried not to dwell on it until I read this. You cannot create an intricate story that demands focused attention by your core audience and then just expect them to not point out an obvious hole. Now, he doesn’t need to apologize for the episode…unless he’s going to start bitching about fans bitching about the episode. That’s my point. Don’t pass the buck. It’s not the toxicity of the fans, or the boards, it was an obvious freaking plot hole.

  • Jim Nasium

    You said..” a testament to the IQ of the fans that LOST attracts”

    Some good points but some bad also

    I beg to differ on the IQ part. I find the majority of people posting on the board only have average or below average IQ’s. You have to understand its the people that DONT get it that are posting much of the critisim.

    When Desmond Time traveled 3/4 of every board thought he didnt time travel. Every poll leaned toward that conclusion. Yet it was so blatently obvious that a child could see it. Just the other day there was a big number of posts asking what Jack looked at Benard for in this last epi–when it was so obvious it was the morse code.

    Now, they’re asking if Widmore is Bens constant– when the whole point of a constant was the person had to be where you TTraveled AND on the Island–Widmore is not on the Island!! …plus Ben isnt even mind flashing–he’s going body and soul. Their conclusions are just stupid.

    People dont see the themes. They miss very clear storytelling devices and are constantly baffled by the obvious. The Micheal thing is just plain witless too. People have no imagination..thats why they cant concieve things could happen quick.

    Damon is right. His mistake is reading the posts. Thats only gonna mess with his head if he doesnt undertststand that the silent majority GET the show. Its always bad policy to base your decision on forums–read any Drug forum and you will see everyone who had a bad reaction to the drug and no one it worked for–when the real numbers are 1000 to 1.

  • Henry Holland

    Re: Nikki & Paolo. I wanted more redshirt involvement, BUT just in the sense that, say, Jack and Kate and Sayid are walking and Kate says to a guy we’ve seen before something like “Hey, Dan, did you get your hut fixed” and Redshirt Dan says “Yeah, thanks!”, something like that to acknowledge that there were 40 other people there, not just people walking in the background carrying bundles of sticks. Example: the guy carrying wood who gets whacked after asking James why he had a gun. I always hated the way the main cast lived in a bubble, which as least the REAL Doc Arzt mentioned once. It was hilarious to see people go from “We want redshirts” to actually having them there and going “OMG! They’re taking time away from Charlie and Claire! OMG!” I loved Expose, especially the ending and the music at the end.

    Why was HOW Walt and Michael got off the Island such a mystery at the point of MKJ? It was clear to me that it was very simple: they followed Ben’s instructions, followed a bearing of *TA DA* 325 and found rescue and ended up on the mainland. We found out Michael and Walt took on new identities. Do we really need a whole episode, or even part of one, to see that?

    Jim Nasium, hahahaha, loved your post @12:50.

  • ElginMiller

    MerlboroMan: I’m curious – what is the obvious freaking plot hole in MKJ?

  • MerlboroMan

    Elgin –
    Timeline. The time between when Michael leaving the island at the end of Season Two and Tom being killed at the end of Season Three was less than a month (not to mention that we saw a lot of Tom on Island in Season Three). It’s exactly what was being pointed at in Damon’s comment. We’re supposed to believe that Michael made it back to New York, lost Walt, met Friendly, etc. in the span of what? Three weeks? Less? Now, as I’ve been saying, I’m willing to let it pass, but it’s there and you can’t blame some fans for noticing it and calling you out on it. Either say, “Yep, you’re right. My bad,” or say nothing at all and let it go…or convalute your storyline even further by writing an episode explaining how all that time passed off island while only two or three weeks passed on island. Regardless, the wrong approach is getting upset at fans for calling you out. It’s like me getting upset at people for not understanding the comments I’m making. 🙂

    Now, for the umpteenth time…I love the show. I also feel that the worst Lost episode is better than the best episode of anything else on network television (I like Dexter and haven’t seen BSG). I’m particularly impressed by the writing of this show. However, I don’t let my fan loyalty cloud my judgment. If you missed the “obvious freakin’ plothole” then reread Doc’s article, because Damon obviously didn’t: “‘Oh, I don’t understand how Michael could have gotten off the island, gotten back to New York, parked Walt, then got indoctrinated by Friendly all in a month’.”

    Nitpicking? Really? Write a show for four seasons where you know fans will take screenshots and pour over every minute detail and THIS is nitpicking? That’s the cake, eating it, and expecting a glass of milk as well.

    And finally, to anyone who thinks storytellers can just create a book, or show, or film, without seriously considering their audience, you’re absolutely correct… if they never intend to share that creation with anyone. I mean, imagine Eli Roth taking Hostel to churches like Mel Gibson did with the Passion.

    I really didn’t want to rant like this, but I thought my intial comment was self explanatory. Should I be mad that some people didn’t get my intent?

  • ElginMiller

    MerlboroMan –

    I guess I didn’t judge too harshly because we are still missing large parts of this story, so I’m hesitant to point at anything and say “plot hole!”

    Also, I don’t find it too much of a stretch that all of that could happen in 3 weeks. I can explain it to my own satisfaction very easily. It would all have to happen pretty fast, but how is it impossible? Is there some specific contradiction that MKJ created?

    I agree that Damon shouldn’t be comparing “Lost” to “24” as a defense, in any way, ever. “Lost” is, and should be, held to a much higher standard, and Damon should understand that better than anyone. It’d be like Arthur Conan Doyle defending a perceived plot hole by saying “Nobody complains when they do it in a Hardy Boys book!”

  • MerlboroMan

    We actually agree. As I said, I had no problem with the episode. Sure, it seems like a big hiccup to me, but I am willing to let it go. I even trust that it will all come out in the wash, that’s how much respect I have for these writers. My “beef” (if I have any) is with taking it out on the fans for not swallowing it whole without choking (and the mental image that line created says more about the reader than the writer). That’s why, to me, the best thing for Damon to have done was nothing. By responding, especially in this manner, he gives the criticism more weight than it deserved.

  • ElginMiller

    Right on, MerlboroMan. If you create a show that can only be fully appreciated through intense analysis, and those fiends who intensely analyze everything balk when something doesn’t quite add up, you should either quietly chuckle to yourself because you know that an explanation is coming that will shut everybody up, or quietly apologize and move on.

    I guess I’m hesitant to completely disagree with Damon, though, because in my experience there are an overwhelming number of people who post on Lost message boards who seem like they actually hate the show, or they are trapped in some sort of mutually abusive relationship with the show, or they have zero trust in the writers after 4 seasons.

  • david

    Damon isn’t UPSET at fans for pointing out logic gaps and stuff. He likes it and says he is the same type of fan with other things. He just understands that if he puts too much focus on all these details that aren’t incredibly important to the overall story plan then the focus will fall apart. Again I think we are reading way too much into this comment. Damon and Carlton clearly enjoy the fans, the answer all types of questions on the podcast, they love that we talk about the show and discuss it to that level of detail. They just need to distance themselves from it to stay focused on their plan. But it’s not like they are unaware of our comments and don’t take them into some consideration. Obviously he pointed out that he is AWARE of the Michael timeline and that’s just a choice they made is that it is POSSIBLE it occured so they went with it. They have a script supervisor who would’ve made let them know if it was totally impossible. It’s not that weird considering all the stuff that has happened on the island in only three months. We also really don’t know the details of how Michael got to NYC, how he got a place to live again and a car and stuff. We don’t know if it was his old stuff or if the Others helped him get it or what. It could’ve happened easily.
    Anyway, I know they still look at fan reaction to see what we’re focusing on and react to it. For example, they realized the bracelet from “The Economist” was getting way more attention than they thought so they are taking that into consideration. They’re just saying that if they get too worked up emotionally into all our nitpicking, then it becomes toxic.
    Really it’s not that bad of a statement.

  • forgiventhewarlord

    Erasedslate-I will take issue with one point. We often, almost regularly, hit the boards to simply write “that was totally awesome.”

    I have to disagree with that. That doesn’t happen at many message boards and certainly not the larger ones.

    Merlboroman- considering how many time discrepancies we’ve seen on Lost, why should a viewer, when shown a new one, automatically assume “obvious freaking plot hole” rather than “oh, shiny new time travel experience”?

  • Pop Zeus

    Blast? Man, what?

  • dm

    Yo, most of the turds complaining about the timeline seem to forget it is completely possible that Michael did all this stuff in a week or two. You don’t need a year to rent some crap deal, buy a crap car, lose your son by telling him you killed two broads to get off the Island, etc.

    I agree with the guy who said the average LOST fan stumbles somewhere around average and below average intelligence.

  • MerlboroMan

    Of course not. You could probably just take a little tug boat from the South Pacific to NY City, during that time isolate your son, reach the US and set him up with your mother, and try to kill yourself in a car accident and be fully healed – off island – in what? One week? My math could be off.

  • DM

    What math do you have to gage whether he can do this or not?

    Since when did Michael sail from the South Pacific to NYC in a little boat? Michael only took the boat as far as another vessel that was waiting for him. Michael never suffered any injuries from the wreck. You’re making all of this sound like some kind of overwhelming or impossible task. You just have to assume some things in TV land occurred (maybe he was assisted by Ben’s crew, who the hell knows) and get on with it.

    Is it a stretch? Yes, but who the hell cares? It’s an unimportant aspect of the story whether he did it in a week and a half or two weeks. Might as hell harp on trying to figure out the identities of the O6 + 2 even though they never existed in the first place.

    It’s just a crappy and useless avenue to explore.

  • DM

    I should mention that most of these internet nerd fans are slightly illiterate or have no skill in analyzing literature or film. They corner red herrings and operate under the fallacy that everything is a clue.

  • forgiventhewarlord

    Merlboroman- considering how many time discrepancies we’ve seen on Lost, why should a viewer, when shown a new one, automatically assume “obvious freaking plot hole” rather than “oh, shiny new time travel experience”?

  • MerlboroMan

    Missed that whole scene with the neckbrace in the hospital did we? My whole point, since it seems to be missed, is that people who have a problem with the episode have a legitimate beef. You could have read all comments and understood that.
    You’re second comment…point? Are you trying to say that you’re not “an illiterate nerd fan” and you’re skilled in analyzing film or literature?

    I read your comment the first time and really thought my responses were self explanatory, but guess not. Let me repeat myself – “As I said, I had no problem with the episode. Sure, it seems like a big hiccup to me, but I am willing to let it go. I even trust that it will all come out in the wash, that’s how much respect I have for these writers.” Why should a viewer assume there’s a plothole? Because there is. It’s the fact that we neither know if this timeline IS OR IS NOT a result of the time discrepancies. That IS OR IS NOT would be a blank space because it could go either way, therefore no one can fill it with any certainty. Therefore…PLOTHOLE.

    If I seem to be coming across a bit…acerbic, it’s because some of you guys are taking this way too personal; as if criticizing the show is tantamount to blasphemy and as a result you’re either trying to make snide comments or reposting your previous comments as if to say “answer that!” Now I truly understand Damon’s point. You go on a board, read twenty comments you agree with, but then…

  • milo

    “Blasts back”? Hardly. Decent article, but the headline is fairly inflammatory (and inaccurate).

  • DM

    Man, MM, you seem to be forgetting a billion things. The nurse told Michael he escaped the wreck without a scratch. Do we also need to remind you that the Island won’t let him die? That the Island can accelerate healing?

    And, yes, I’m not an illiterate nerd. I know this strikes you as crazy since you can’t accept people disagree with you, but, hey, billions of us have studied writing and literature. Jesus, you can’t even see the implications of certain themes (while struggling with what qualifies as theme).

  • ErasedSlate

    Hey, I think you guys just proved Damon’s point.

  • MerlboroMan

    DM –
    The nurse said what?

    NURSE: Ugh. Let’s get some light in here. Now I thought I heard someone shout, and something tells me it wasn’t him. You okay? (Sighs) You’re lucky to be alive. E.M.T.S say they found you in a wrecked car with a note pinned to your chest. You didn’t have any I.D. on you. Want to tell me your name? (sighs) Yeah, I didn’t think so. You want me to call Walt?

    MICHAEL: What?

    NURSE: The note pinned to your chest. It was written to “Walt”. You want me to call him?

    MICHAEL: (Whispers) No.

    NURSE: Okay, then.

    Now I just rewatched that scene on because I like to be certain about these sort of things, and yes, that transcript fits the dialogue and Michael was definitely in a neckbrace. Now, she did say he was lucky to be alive and then we cut to him visiting his mother’s house. All in all, from crash to release I’d have to say it at least took a full three days…and then I’d still expect him to be wearing that neckbrace, which he wasn’t when he went to his mother’s house. Getting ridiculous enough for you?

    Your comment proves two things:
    A – you’re very passive agressive. You’re initial comments about the intelligence of the average Lost fans was your attempt to carry-on the debate over my article. The first part was directed to me and therefore we must assume, so was the added mention.
    B – you’re the one who seems to have problems with people disagreeing. I’ve said…count through the comments now…at least five times that I HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THIS EPISODE, BUT PEOPLE WHO DID HAVE A LEGITIMATE BEEF.

    That seems to be the big pisser for you and others; that some people had a problem with this episode and I’m actually defending their right to have the criticism.

    Now, as for the last comment about themes…wow, that was a completely different article and you’re still going on about it aren’t you? I can only explain something so many times before we either have to agree to disagree or fight to the death. How absurd do you want this to get?

  • MerlboroMan

    ErasedSlate –
    That’s what I said. :/

  • ErasedSlate

    I’m sorry, since I’m below the average IQ, I was unable to comprehend your post.

    BTW, my college literary professor can beat up your college literary professor.

  • ErasedSlate

    Damn Sarcasm tags don’t work. Doc, can you fix that?

  • MerlboroMan

    Erased –
    I got where you were coming from. The “:/” was more of a “can you believe this crap.”

    And my college literay professor rolls with a gang, so your’s might beat him/her up, but then they’re doing a drive-by on your entire college. They don’t play.

  • forgiventhewarlord

    MerlboroMan- I’m not attacking you in any way. You’re saying that the complaints are valid about the episode, and I don’t understand why it would be an “obvious plothole” in that One episode, when most of the other episodes this season have similar “time discrepancies”. If off-island time being different is a plothole for Michael’s situation, then isn’t it a plothole for the rocket experiment also? And the doctor being dead? And Ben not being sure what year it was off-island?

    For me, I don’t understand why anyone would assume “time discrepancies” in Michael’s episode are plotholes when it’s been shown repeatedly this season that time works differently off-island than it does on-island.

  • MerlboroMan

    forgive –
    Rocket Experiment – No. It’s a pretty clear beginning-middle-end plotline that establishes these time discrepancies. Think of it as clever exposition.
    Doctor being dead – Yes, because we’ve yet to see how ” going to/from” the island affects point of time (though at this point one might assume that going to the island takes one into the past, while going from the island takes one into the future).
    Ben not knowing – No. This is an example of exposition rather than introducing a plotthread.

    Now, why is the Doctor’s death and Michael’s timeline a plothole? Because they have open-ended resolutions. We can only theorize about them at this point. Is this a bad thing? NO. It merely means that currently it’s an unanswered question, or an open plot. That’s why I…me, myself, and I…had no problem with this episode. I have faith, like I said, that it will all come out in the wash, so to speak. Others however, may not, and they have legitimate reasons. While I trust that the authors will eventually show that there is a HUGE discrepancy between off island time and on island time (since the rocket test it seems to be growing), there’s no guarantee that they will. Some fans lack faith and even though many of us feel they shouldn’t, they have every right to question and critique this episode without being belittled for it.

  • forgiventhewarlord

    You said:
    “Now, why is the Doctor’s death and Michael’s timeline a plothole? Because they have open-ended resolutions. We can only theorize about them at this point. Is this a bad thing? NO.”

    If it’s not a bad thing, then why are complaints about it valid?

    I agree that they are open-ended, I disagree that they are plotholes. A plothole infers that the writers simply messed up the timeline as in the examples that you have pointed out such as (“We’re supposed to believe that Michael made it back to New York, lost Walt, met Friendly, etc. in the span of what? Three weeks? Less?”) when that situation actually has a very simple explanation considering how many examples we already have that time works differently off-island.

    I understand that You don’t have a problem with the episode and trust the writers, but at the same time you’re saying that you can see how others would see it as an error. I can’t see how they would considering what we’ve been shown time after time. So, it comes across to me (and others as just being nitpicky) and comes across to others (like DM) as a lack of intelligence.

  • MerlboroMan

    forgive –
    At the end of any story (any story) any unanswered question is a plothole. As long as the question goes unanswered, it’s a plothole. If it is answered by the next episode, the episode after, or the next season, it stops being a plothole. Complaints or criticisms are valid because the plothole currently exists. While we have evidence that may leads in a certain direction, it’s not set in stone. Therefore, as long as it’s open for debate – and the fact that we’ve all given examples that prove that it is – then those who criticize the episode have a valid point.

    Now, I’ve explained this to the point that not only is the horse dead and buried, but it’s making appearances on the island and telling us all to stop beating it. Yes, some see it as nitpicky, some see it as lack of intelligence, and some see it as valid criticism.

    I’d like to apologize for my first comment. I am 100% sympathetic to Damon now. I feel completely intoxicated.

  • forgiventhewarlord

    “any unanswered question is a plothole.”

    See, most people just call those “mysteries”. And since you consider complaints about mysteries to be valid… yeah, I can see why you’d feel “intoxicated”.

    Myself, I can see why Damon and others just see it as nitpicky.

  • MerlboroMan

    Can you hear the horse crying?

  • forgiventhewarlord

    merl- Anyone who disagrees with you is beating a dead horse now… convenient.

  • MerlboroMan

    Forgive –
    No, beating a dead horse is saying the same thing over and over without gaining any new ground.

    Here’s the point. You ASSUME it’s a mystery because you ASSUME the writers/producers intentionally used this time discrepancy. Notice I’m using the word assume. Why? What happens if this is never addressed? What if the series ends and we never know exactly why Michael’s timeline doesn’t match up with the rest of the story? I’m making the same ASSUMPTION, but I’m humble enough to admit that I could be wrong. Therefore, those who don’t make THAT ASSUMPTION, have a valid argument. The time travel we have seen IS made painfully obvious to show it is intentional (Docter washes ashore and in the same episode we’re told he’s still alive on the boat), and this one was not. So believing it to be a part of the time travel mystery is JUST AN ASSUMPTION. While we have enough evidence that WE’RE willing to make that ASSUMPTION, that does not make our view any more valid that those who are not.

    You’re last comment was just repeating the fact that you disagree with me without any further explanation. Nothing new was said. That’s why it’s beating a dead horse.

    That now makes six different ways that I’ve tried to explain this. If we go for seven the horse gets promoted to god of his own universe.

  • John

    You are all toxic. It is the truth. Live with it and move on. As soon as this show is over, you are going to be the sad, poor, pathetic lumps of turds you are now. Except, you won’t have anyone to crap all over all day long. You people are pathetic. Your theories are wrong and so stupid, most of the times. It’s just a huge waste of time.

    See, going to this site ONE TIME has made me toxic already.

    Live with it. Move on. Get outside for a change. You know, there are REAL islands outside that magic box in your living rooms!

  • MerlboroMan

    Wow. What can I say, but…wow.

    Oh, wait….Troll. That’s something I can say.

  • forgiventhewarlord


    I agree with you that it could go either way. It could be an error, or the writers could have planned it.

    It just seems nitpicky to lean towards the “error” side when there is a possible valid explanation which has evidence to support it.