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Rant and Rate – 6.10 “The Package”

By Koobie,

  Filed under: Lost News
  Comments: 168

For an episode following “one of the best episodes of Lost ever” or Ab Aeterno, what did you think of the Package? The episode featured a large portion of the main cast, and brought back a familiar face-Patchy. Here is a quick rundown of the episode.


  • Sun and Jin are not married, but lovers? Did Jacob have a hand their island timeline marriage?
  • Sun looks in a mirror-a clue that she is the Kwon candidate?
  • The return of Patchy! Even though he was missing a patch at the beginning, looks like he will need one now.
  • Sun was shot in the gut.  Pregnancy issues in both timelines.


  • Widmore tranqs everyone in Locke’s camp, just to take Jin.  Couldn’t they have taken Jin when he went out for a leak?
  • Kate no longer a candidate? Was she even one to begin with?
  • Room 23, Tina Fey, and a slideshow.  Good times.
  • Locke declares war on Widmore, while quoting Widmore from season 4.
  • Sun’s sudden loss of English may point to inter-reality mingling, and lead to Frank’s hilarious quip, “So says the guy who talks to dead people.”
  • Desmond is the package, but he didn’t seem to recognize Sayid.  Maybe it’s Flashsideways Desmond?

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  • Corgsopal

    So, it looks like when Sun hit her head she connected with her alternate self. It looks like Dharma was important after all! Perhaps Smokey isn’t so much evil as destructive. He could be some kind of anti-matter that is neutralized by the specific unique properties of the island. If he were unleashed everyone Jin knew would ‘cease to exist’. Not ‘be subjected to evil’ or ‘punished for wrongdoing’. Cease to exist. The dichotomy of good and evil may well be a red herring. At least, partially.

    • Charlie’s Ghost

      I’m not sure Sun’s knock on the head forced her to connect with her prior self…..just a segway to the flash sideways. The re-visit to Room 23 was classic. Desmond was obviously drugged, but still recognized Sayid a little. Most likely not Des from the flash sideways. Penny must be really pissed at this point. The last we saw Des, he was heading for the hospital, right? Maybe Widmore snatched him from there?

      • Charlie’s Ghost

        …. And for the record, as soon as we saw the wheel in the lighthouse and the name ‘wallace’ next to #108, I posted that Wallace must = Desmond in some way.

        • chad

          but wallace was crossed off?

          • Rams

            yeah- he or she can’t be too majorly important if crossed off.

      • whateverhappenedhappened

        Yes, remember season 5, when Mrs Hawking was coming out of the hospital after talking to Penny, Charles W was walking in?

    • Handsome Smitty

      Uh, everyone ceasing to exist, that’s prett much a BAD thing if you ask me – since that means ME!!!

      Again, good vs evil, never as simple as it seems, but a TRUTH nonetheless. Evil is often defined as a “lack of God,” and Gods are often defined as “lifegiving.” It’s a perspective kind of thing, but if someone thinks everyone ceasing to exist is a good thing, then they are nuts and evil.

      • Rams

        I think “Cease to exist” may mean something like everyone turning into a clone of Agent Smith aka Zombies. Everyone gets the sickness and kills each other, while Smokey happily roams around killing people in Smoke form.

        • Newbie

          niiiiccceee love a good Matrix neference — but I dont think so

      • Benjamin

        When Widmore said everyone would cease to exist, I took it to mean that if MIB were released, everyone will turn into Sayid-like beings. Emotionless lifeforms, subject to the will of MIB, not actually dead or nonexistant. To Jin they wouldn’t be the same people at all.

      • jon

        That is the first time I’ve ever heard that definition of evil or of Gods.
        To counter your definitive statement, in some religions, our physical bodies are traps and leaving them (possibly after many iterations) is the end goal.

        • Handsome Smitty

          Key word: “physical.” Not the same as ceasing to exist.

          Lots of religions out there. Can’t cover them all.

    • Rams

      I think Jin’s going to help in the resolution because he was working in Dharma days! It’ll be nice to see him play an important role in the resolution of the series.

  • Seabiscuit

    Since her name is on the wall and at the lighthouse, then I would say yes, Kate was a candidate t begin with. Could still be, since her name isn’t crossed out at the lighthouse.

    I like the idea of inter-reality bleeding. Would explain a lot of things.

    • Charlie’s Ghost

      Yeah, I think MIB was lying to Claire to get her to help him get to the next point, i.e. getting to the plane. Then, if Kate’s still a candidate at that point, he’ll lie to Claire again. He’s seems to string people along till the point where he changes up the lie, and then strings them along some more.

      • Rams

        Kate’s still a candidate. MIB doesn’t know because her name’s crossed off in the cave. A bit of misdirection by Jacob according to Darlton (podcast). MIB either doesn’t know or ca’t find the Lighthouse.

        Did Locke subtly tell Claire that he wouldn’t care if she murdered Kate once he got used her to help him in getting the remaining three candidates off the Island? Sure looks like it… I think he’s going to try and get them all to kill each other

        • ErasedSlate

          It looks like the cave is actually one of smokey’s lairs. He was given the white rock by Jacob and unless he returned it to Jacob at some point, Smokey still had it.

          The names in his lair crossed off are representative of the candidates that Smokey has killed or disqualified in some way.

          I think the lighthouse list was Jacob’s and the Cave list is Smokey’s.

          • Newbie

            agree — he crossed her off his list (mib) as someoen who is not of use to him – or helpful to his end game

          • Rams

            Well I choose to believe what Darlton said in their podcast

          • ErasedSlate

            and a very good reminder to listen to the podcasts…

          • naultz

            ever notice how smokey offers something to the canidates, and then holds out his hand for them to take it. I think somehow this touch from smokie may effect your “status” as a canidate. he has offered his hand almost every episode to several people so far( ben, jin, sun, claire, kate, sayid) but only two have accepted it, claire and sayid.

          • Rams

            Yeah naultz- I was like “Don’t take his dirty hand, Sun!” and I cheered when she ran. 🙂

        • Yes! I also took it to mean she could be killed(Kate), once she is no longer useful.

          • naultz

            smokes-a-lot said “whatever happens, happens”. wait, where have we heard that before?

  • Noel

    I don’t think it’s that Des doesn’t necessarily recognize Sayid. It’s more that he’s tranqued out of his skull (as the Widmore Glee Club members mention).

    • numbersarebad

      Yeah, it must be hard to say, “What are you doing in the water, brotha?” when you are barely concious. He definately had a look on his face, that seemed to say, “You????” like he did back at the end of season 2.

    • ghanima

      And I’m sure the shock of finding himself back on the island he swore never to return to didn’t help much which forming a coherent statement.

  • I loved the episode! It was touching when Jin saw his daughter for the first time. And the flash-sideways was very cool and interesting to see. Loved it. Also, DESMOND!!!!!!!!!

    The electromagnetism, Desmond being “special” and how the “rules don’t apply” to him are all coming together! Oh man, the season is shaping up fantastically.

  • Windham

    Of course Des recognizes Sayid…that’s why he had the “oh bloody hell” look.

    • SPF22

      I agree. I looked like Desmond did recognize Sayid, although he was clearly out of it.

      • lockeheart

        yeah, the way sayid and desmond looked at eachother was very interesting. I definitley think that desmond reconized him. After watching it again it also seemed like sayid was affected by seeing desmond somehow; almost like he felt something, even though he said ealier in the episode that he didnt feel pain, regret etc. Maybe its possible that desmond can effect smokies claimed victims because of his “speicalness”.
        Seeing desmond however does change everything. Since we found out that widamore is looking for the electrmagnetic pockets I wonder if he somehow wants desmond to do something in the flash sidways that will affect what is now goin on on island. cant wait till next week

        • Rams

          Desmond’s back, brothas and sistahs!!!! But he’s wearing a red shirt. I’m terrified…

          I doubt anyone in our Original timeline knows about the Sideways reality even existing. Perhaps, Widmore is going to use Desmond to harness the electromagnetism and destroy the Island so Smokey can die.

        • Faraday’s “Constant” was Desmond. They had a connection both on and off the Island, just as Sayid and Desmond did–both on the freighter and off island. Desmond could very well cure Sayids sickness. I really hope that Desmond is SidewaysDes so Jack & Co. will know that the plan did work and it wasn’t all for nothing. And, since we know that SidewaysDes was on the plane, we know that there is still that connection to maintain the Constant. Alright, so the rules do not apply to Desmond, he is special. With all this said, Jack knew Des in his flashback, found him in the hatch on the island, knew him in flash forwards, and sat next to him on the plane in the flash sideways. Does this mean that Jack will also be “special.” Remember when Walt was so commonly referred to as “special.” I wish his name would have been on the wall, or maybe Aaron’s too.

      • Maybe Desmond’s father that we’ve never met is….. Jacob.

        That’s why Desmond is special and the rules don’t apply to him, he’s the son of Jacob.

        Makes sense doesn’t it

  • Leo

    Very satisfying episode.

    Loved that Sun was wearing a camo-colored dress, during her meeting with Keamy.

    Hoped Sayid might find some redemption, given his helping Jin, but I suspect his time is counting down.

    • Handsome Smitty

      Not good for Sayid he wouldn’t help out Jin more; it’s like he’s souless in both realities.

  • “What, you can’t turn yourself into smoke and fly your ass over there?” – Sawyer

    That sideways flash sure is intriguing. Hmmm, I would have assumed that “Charlie” knew who/what smokey is?

    So was Desmond the person locked up on board and Widmore’s secret weapon?? I don’t think so cause Jin would have been there to show a reaction.

    • numbersarebad

      Jin wasn’t at the dock by the sub, why would he show a reaction? Desmond was being taken to the infirmary, not Room 23.

  • Hopefor51

    1.) I knew Desmond’s The Package!
    2.)For a second I thought “What’s this bastard do this time!?” when Sun woke up and can’t speak english.
    3.) Oh yeah, that sonofab* who killed Charlie’s back!
    4.) Poor Ji-Yeon.
    5.) It’s good to see all of the main cast in an episode. FINALLY. Out with the “This episode features Team MIB/Beachcampers…”
    6.) Good to see Sun’s garden and Room 23 again. What’s next? The decoy village? The volcano this time?
    7.) Oh yeah, good thing Ilana didn’t suffer the way Charlotte did. A change of clothes people!
    8.) And to think I stood up for “Tina Fey” the last time. She sure is starting to be a Bi*

    • Leo

      Agreed about points 5 & 8, especially 5.

  • Josh

    Why does everyone think Sun hit her head and became sideflash-Sun? Because she supposedly doesn’t speak English off-island?

    We haven’t got a confirmation whether she does or not in the sideflashes, have we? If not, you could probably assume she’s just hiding it from Jin like in the original timeline.

    • Corgsopal

      You’re right, we don’t have confirmation either way. But if Jin and Sun are involved and not married, why would she have to hide it from him? He wasn’t being a poor husband so she wasn’t planning on running away to America so she didn’t have an English tutor.

      • Trip

        He still told her to button-up on the Oceanic flight in the sideways world. So he is still kind of domineering. He is likely still a goon for Mr. Paik too.

        Sun certainly thought she was leading a double life though: her secret bank acount and affair with Jin, so it is plausible she also knows English.

    • RichM

      If she “became” sideways-Sun, she would have had no idea who Locke is, why she was on an island all of a sudden or why all these people know her name.

    • rivum

      i don’t think anyone’s saying she “became” flash-sideways sun; they’re just saying the two alternates may have crossed somehow.
      remember, too, that she just can’t say the engligh words. she can still understand and write them.

    • OtherJacob

      I think that people are just grasping for an explanation for why something so strange would happen to a character, why did the writers choose for her to not be able to speak English anymore. Amnesia would have been a more logical choice. Even the characters were noting how odd it seemed. It’s the same strange type of event as when Faraday was grazed by a bullet in the neck back in Season 5.

      She’s not her flash-sideways version, but I do think its a clue about the relationship between the real world and the flash sideways world

      • Handsome Smitty

        Sigh, contrast, folks; just like people tying myths to events in Lost, Jin’s sudden lack of English is meant to mirror the sideways(c) Jin, that’s all.

        • I assume you mean Sun, not Jin.

          • Handsome Smitty

            My bad.

      • Rams

        I don’t see what the problem is at all. We are clearly seeing an incursion from the Sideways into our Timeline for the first time. So far it’s been the other way. And this was a real nice way to show it IMO.

  • numbersarebad

    So some of you think Sun connected with her “flash-sideways” self? That’s all it takes? You just run into a tree branch or something and bump your head, and poof…hello sideways self. I just don’t see that happening. The next thing you know, Jack will be trying to convince his group to hit themselves over the head with a coconut just to connect with their sideways-selves.

    • Not Enamoured

      Maybe it is more dire than that! What if in the SideFlash world you die and I guess sort of merge to Island self. Then those that survive SideFlash maybe die on the Island.

      • Trip

        Nobody is dieing in the sideways world, though they are dieing on the island. Maybe their consciousness goes the other way. For instance, Juliet’s remarks about it (Jughead detonation?) working before she died.

        • Trip



  • bps

    One thing that no one has talked about is that Locke just left Sun lying there. You would have thought that he would have carried her back or something. Makes me wonder why he didn’t harm her…..or did he?

    Perhaps for some reason she HAS to come with him of her own free will.

    • Jamesigh

      very likely.

    • rivum

      interesting point – maybe she didn’t lose the ability to speak english from the hit on the head at all, but rather something that unLocke did to her (and which we didn’t see)

      another little something i noticed – when sun looked in the mirror, something seemed to have happened to her as she looked at her reflection, or she had some sort of realization. either way, she looked affected by what she saw….i don’t think we’ve seen that effect with any of the other flash-sideways.

      • HollyP

        We’ve seen the mirror thing in all or nearly all the other FSWs. Sayid caught his reflection in the door to his brother’s house. Jack looked at his reflection in a mirror. Ben saw his reflection in the over-the-range microwave oven.

        • Trip

          Jack’s always looking at himself…even in mud puddles.

  • Chris

    I really hate to troll but…:

    1.”Widmore tranqs everyone in Locke’s camp, just to take Jin. Couldn’t they have taken Jin when he went out for a leak?”
    -Even Widmore asks the same question… You really need to address it more? It was Zoe’s fault!

    2.”Kate no longer a candidate? Was she even one to begin with?”
    -Um… Yes? MIB kinda confirms it in the dialog with Claire…

    3.”Desmond is the package, but he didn’t seem to recognize Sayid. Maybe it’s Flashsideways Desmond?”
    -A. He seemed to recognize Sayid just fine to me but…
    -B. He was too drugged to be sure and/or talk to him, yet again confirmed by the dialog between the people carrying him

    • Handsome Smitty

      Yup, people are overthinking things as usual.

      • Rams

        True. But Kate’s still a candidate (see my post above).

      • Dorf

        Frankly, I’m not sure Koobie even watches the show. Half of the points he makes are inaccurate.

        • Andrea

          Most of Koobie’s posts are filled with inaccuracies. He has never impressed me as a recapper, since he always gets so many points wrong. It’s like he’s watching the show while doing the dishes, and paying more attention to the latter. How can a recap be useful to fans if the recapper can’t be bothered to make sure what he’s saying happened actually happened?

  • Samuel

    feels a bit like they dragged us through 47 minutes of filler just to get to the point where they reveal Desmond getting off the sub…

    • Handsome Smitty

      Yes! And the Jin/Sun story seemed incomplete. I think in a normal season there’d be another one to make their story more meaningful. It should be clear to all that the “character stories” are lacking because a conclusion is set and there just isn’t time for all the answers and stories to connect.

      Rush job.

    • minnie swirl

      This didn’t fill like “filler” to me–in fact I reject “filler” as a description for any episode. It all seems like necessary parts to one overall story. I think I need this episode to fully understand the entire story once it comes to an end.

      • B.A.Y.

        I’m with ya, Minnie Swirl. People who call the majority of “The Package” filler aren’t paying attention, particularly to the larger arc of the story. At least no one I’ve read on the blogs, so far, has jumped on the “sloppy writing” bandwagon this week.

        Each episode, and every section of each episode is a necessary part of the story. The producers and writers have about 45 min. each week to move plot and character development along plus–now that we’re in Season 6–explain stuff. All 45 minutes are precious. None of them, especially in S. 6 are wasted on filler, as you pointed out. Or bad writing. These scripts are honed down to essentials.

        End of rant.

        • Handsome Smitty

          Sloppy writing it is for the exact reason you state – PARTS! Parts is parts, someone funnier than me once said. You hook them together and you get a big picture. And that’s fine, we’re going to get that. But because of the limited episodes those parts become more important than the characters.

          Would’ve been nice if they could have gotten 22 eps out of the finale season. More time for small character backstories and less narrative limitations.

          And again the Island and Sideways© Realities are out of sync.

          All because of PARTS!

        • Samuel

          Once the finale airs look back on half the episodes this season and count how many moments have been “essential” as you state…The writers have already copped out with answering every question raised throughout a six year run by saying Jacob or the man in black did it, all the other mysteries are unimportant.

          • dd

            Which “mysteries” are really important that aren’t being answered? I asked because dumb fan “mysteries” usually aren’t real mysteries that are integral to the show.

          • Samuel

            I’m just venting frustration at the fact that for six seasons we have been waiting as viewers for this payoff and now everyone has changed their tune now that they see Dues ex machina wasn’t just the name of an episode. Everyone is now saying “oh it’s all about the story I no longer care about the mysteries and answers, Yay Lost!” What happened? People were visiting this site daily trying to solve these mysteries and come up with theories as to what is happening. Now all of sudden the same mysteries are unimportant and we focus on something as trivial and useless to the story as how Jin wound up in a freezer in a flash sideways? Who cares how he got there, the writers are trying to distract from the fact that they can’t wrap up everything they laid out in the six years that they baited and hooked us. Instead of expecting more from a show that promised us that they were not just stringing us along and actually had an ending from the start, people are acting like it’s blastphemy to say the final season isn’t playing out in the creative way the first 5 seasons did. Saying Jacob is responsible for the entirety of the mysteries is pretty lame considering we didn’t even see his face until the Finale of season 5.

  • Jamesigh

    “Sun looks in a mirror-a clue that she is the Kwon candidate?”

    I think this makes a lot of sense. I also think that Kate is a candidate, but MiB is lying to Claire. If Claire knew Kate was a candidate, she’d either leave or attack Kate again – but the only thing keeping Kate following the MiB is Claire. If you get what I mean.

    “Widmore tranqs everyone in Locke’s camp, just to take Jin. Couldn’t they have taken Jin when he went out for a leak?”

    Well, Widmore already suggested something like that, but apparently he’s set a geo-physicist as the team leader…

    “Desmond is the package, but he didn’t seem to recognize Sayid. Maybe it’s Flashsideways Desmond?”

    I’m pretty sure he recognised Sayid.

    • bps

      I’m not sure MIB knows that Kate is a candidate. Not on the wall in the cave, but she is on the lighthouse. Jacob has fooled MIB regarding Kate I think. I don’t believe MIB has ever seen the lighthouse.

      • Rams

        I agree. Kate is Jacob’s secret weapon. :O

    • Lost in NYC

      I think he definitely recognized Sayid’s face…but maybe the fact that while he is Sayid, he has also changed, his eyes are soulless…and that could also account for Desmond reacting strangely

      • HollyP

        Yes, that and a few fists full of tranquilizers would account for that.

  • dksrox

    Ummmm. We have to assume that this Desmond is the same Desmond that Faraday ran into in the past, right??? Like, this Desmond’s timeline may be different because he met Faraday right before he (Faraday) time-skipped again. Which happend “before” Des met the 815-ers and got off the island. Could/does this mean that the Des we saw last night is a little ‘different’ than the Des who escaped with the O6??? Wouldn’t Des have remembered meeting Faraday in his ‘on-Island past’ when he got dislodged from time in ‘The Constant’??? You’d think that, as Rousseau should remember ‘future’ Jin, Des would remember the guy who magically disappeared from his front door after scaring the crap out of him…and hence be a different person in the ‘new’ timeline that began when Faraday knocked on the hatch door…

    I guess what I’m asking is, shouldn’t this Desmond automatically be ‘different’ than the Des we last saw in S5? He has a different past than the Des we first met in S2…or am I just reading into it too much?

    • Handsome Smitty

      Yes to your last question. His specialness is the zero-point engergy exposure.

      The fact that he was NAKED after that event should have clued everyone into his “rebirth” as something different.

      • dksrox

        I guess I meant that there might have been an even more fundamental change to Desmond, i.e. he saw Faraday disappear, and did something drastic, like turn the key before the Losties ever got to the island, thereby negating that timeline and, potentially, putting the island at the bottom of the ocean…how he got off before that happened is, I supposed, the flaw in this thinking…

    • dd

      The whole deal about Rousseau and Jin is absolutely one of the dumbest things discussed in LOST.

      • Andrew P.

        No, it’s not. It’s a valid point he was making. And you are one of the most negative people I’ve ever read on this board. All you do is trash other posters for no reason whatsoever. Grow up.

  • OtherJacob

    No – Sun did not merge with her sideways self when she hit her head – but I do think that this is a clue as to what the relationship between the real world and flash sideways world is. I’m just not sure what it is yet…

    • I agree. I also think Desmond did recognize Sayid, but he was drugged and wondering why Sayid was in the water or if he was seeing things.

  • Barnes (#17)

    Another average episode I thought. I did however like the conversation between Widmore and the MIB.

    • Handsome Smitty

      Yes, average, but at least one question answered – Widmore’s role!

      • rupe

        if widmore is there to stop smokey, why not just blow up the plane and be done with it

        • Handsome Smitty

          Could be disabled for all we know. And there’s the sub, too. Although I do think WATER is MIB’s fatal weakness, so he couldn’t stand being on a sub I think.

        • B.A.Y.

          I can’t believe anyone thinks that plane is going anywhere. It’s badly damaged, needs parts, and what about fuel? You think it has enough fuel to get anywhere? I don’t think MIB means to take the plane at all. He wants others to believe he’ll get them out via the plane. But he’s got something else up his sleeve. Once all the candidates are dead (though I hope they don’t all die), I think he’s free to take off.

          • Pantagathus

            I’m with you… I mean, a freakin tree went through the cockpit window! Anybody that knows anything about pressurized aircraft knows that this is not a good thing and poses some serious limitations on what you can do (if you bust out some cabin windows to equalize) even if all the other systems are fine. You ain’t flying fast & you ain’t flyin high!

    • The Smoke Monster

      Meh, I at least (!) wanted to see Flocke test the pylons, see some sparks fly. Instead we get two geezers feebly facing off. Very mediocre ep overall.

  • Sylvia

    At least Zoe cleared up why Widmore’s “mercs” look so un-Keamy like and more like the people you’d see at a college coffee shop. Team of scientists. Faraday returns, perhaps!

    • Uhm Faraday is now a 30 year old corpse remember?

      • Trip

        What ever happened, happend.

        • Dee

          Or was Faraday ever even born, since Elly was pregnant with him at the time she shot “future” him and shortly after Juliet imploded the bomb?

  • Rams

    Is it just me or is Flocke looking less scary each episode? If I was with a guy who turned into a pillar of black smoke and rip people apart, I wouldn’t talk to him in the casual way Sawyer and practically everyone on Widmore’s team seems to.

    • adam118

      That’s going to be Smokey’s biggest problem: his “people” are starting to doubt him and just aren’t scared of him. He’s not good at being a “good guy” which is how he’s acting with them. He could be killing one of them everytime he’s mocked to get his point across, but he needs the entire group to trust him and like him.

      • B.A.Y.

        You’re right. However, no one except Claire trusts him.

    • kaptan36

      I agree. He’s not menacing at all. It almost feels as if there is a serious lack of suspense and danger in this season. Yeah, all the people in the temple got killed. Whoopity-do, a bunch of nobody’s. The only important people who got killed were Dogen & Lennon who’s purpose in the temple and with the Others was never revealed, nor was the importance of the temple itself. C’mon Lost writers, you can do alot better than this. They are all just looking forward to their new jobs on V, FlashForward, and HappyTown. I really feel that because the creative team members of Lost all jumped aboard these new shows in the final seasons of Lost, it really took the attention to detail away from Lost.

      • minnie swirl

        Wow, I couldn’t disagree with you more. I don’t think danger is only conjured when someone looks menacing. In fact, when people are unsuspecting of the danger they are in, it creates a lot of suspense and–yes–danger because you don’t know what is going to happen.

        • kaptan36

          While that may be true, it doesn’t make for very entertaining tv, which is my point.

        • Trip

          Up to this point, it has been all answers and set-up. MiB just declared war on Widmore. Alpert wants to blow up the Ajira plane. Jack promised to use said plane to get Jin, Sun, everybody off of the island. I think the finish will be a flurry of action, which will have to include the deaths of some major characters.

          Hang in there.

          • Pantagathus

            I bet if anybody asked the actual pilot (Frank) he’s say that plane ain’t going anywhere…

      • Rams

        I think it is an intentional writing choice that the MIB has appeared less and less powerful each time we see him. Vozzek at DarkUFO has a nice article reviewing this episode, where he mentions that the MIB lacks leadership skills. He has basically got what he wanted so far by ripping people up. He does not know how to lead. Hence all the sarcastic quips from Sawyer. Flocke might soon wish he could just slap Sawyer like he did Claire.

        • Handsome Smitty

          Doesn’t now how to lead…a lot in common with the real Locke, huh?

          • Rams

            That’s exactly what I thought while watching Flocke trying to lead his camp, H.S! And even back then, Sawyer was giving him a hard time. I think this entity got more than he bargained for when he chose to assume Locke’s form. He may have inherited a lot of Locke’s Loser-tendencies.

  • Dominick

    Clues from this episode indicate that if MIB gets off the island, one of the two timelines will be terminated. And as Widmore said to Jin, that his daughter would cease to exist, it follows that the familiar timeline where Sun had a baby is the one that ceases.
    Remember the Shroedinger’s Cat thoery of two possibilies (the two alt timelines) coexisting until an observer opens Shroedinger’s Box to see a dead cat or a live one? I believe MIB getting off the island will be the trigger that determines which timeline continues and which ceases to exist.
    I’ll also postulate that Des is the package because he has some descendent relationship to MIB. MIB was a man once, perhaps in one timeline he became a prisoner of the island. In the other, he lived a life in which he procreated and had a family. Up until it’s sinking, the island was a bridge between the two posible universes. Since in one timeline the island is under water, MIB can’t escape the island into that timeline any longer. If he does get off the island it can only be to the losties universe. There must be some paradox with MIB in that timeline (maybe a connection to Desmond) and stepping into that universe will end it’s “posibility” leaving the flash sideways (and no baby Kwon) universe as the only one left.
    If this is the case, then no one on the island can ever return to the flash sideways universe off island because they are already there. Those on the island will remain as the indigenous inhabitants, the new “others”.
    Yeah there’s a few small gaps in the theory, but there is time. The best part of this theory is it doesn’t involve some all powerful God who will make everything right in the final episode.

    • Kiekow

      I am diging this theory!

    • Leo

      What do you suppose was Sun’s off-island deal with Widmore about? The camera pictures only?

    • Dee

      This is a great theory. And maybe Sun doesn’t even survive being shot, so no Sun or baby in the flash sideways, which is why Widmore tells Jin they will “cease to exist”.

      Also, does anyone else think “Tina Fey” looks like she’s in a costume with a bad wig and fake glasses? Maybe she’s Widmore’s daughter, born “off island” that was referred to earlier in the show.

  • ghanima

    Sun’t ephasia= wierd. I don’t know which is more likely- that she merged with her sideways self by running into a tree, or that Locke did something or that it was just because of the bump on the head. Her hissy fit was kind of annoying though.

    How many times are people going to be cut down with darts in this series? And tasers!

    I still think MIB is either lying to Claire about Kate or he never found the lighthouse and saw Kate’s name on the wheel.

    So Smokey can’t scooby-do his way across water? This would suggest that the person who was giving Ben instructions to build that all important runway may not have been Jacob after all.

    Flocke didn’t seem to happy about the locked door on the sub- how did he know about that? Is he pissed about it- or because he knew Desmond was inside it?

    • Zonker

      If Smokey cannot cross the water, how did he appear as Locke on Hydra island the night after the Ajira crash-landing?

      • Rams

        Maybe he took a boat or a canoe.

      • Handsome Smitty

        He used the tunnel that connects the Island – or the wormhole.

  • Sawyer told Smokey about the locked room. He said “I don’t like surprises” when he sent Sayid to find out what the package was.

  • apackofmonkeys

    One of the things I found interesting (but nobody seems to be talking about) was that characters mentioned versions of the line (twice! I think…) “Whatever happened, happened”. Sounds like that’s going to come back into play somehow.

    • dksrox

      Yeah – it was said once in the past tense and once in the future tense, if I remember correctly. Made me wonder who I was supposed to be paying attention to, character-wise (like, whatever happened, happened to ‘who’?)…Also, Jack’s reaching out to Sun at the end was COMPLETELY reminiscent of both MIB’s AND Jacob’s “handshake”…

      • MissMojofan

        THERE it is!! This is the conversation I’ve been wanting you guys to have. It’s also mentioned in the next post. Jack as the new Jacob–seems like it’s already happened to me, as well. His mannerisms are becoming very Jacob-like. He’s the only one that has completely done a 180, understanding the island and its powers, buying into everything that’s been said to him, after being such an analytical “man of science” before. The first half of this show was basically Jack vs. Locke anyway. I say Jack is the new Jacob (carrying on the Shepherd-line theory, as well), and Flocke becomes stuck in Locke’s body, carrying the rivalry into the next, well, whatever.

        • chad

          I agree totally

        • Handsome Smitty

          Money down on Hurley….

          • Trip

            Hurley…the new Alpert?

  • kaptan36

    It’s getting pretty obvious now that Jack is going to replace Jacob, if he hasn’t already. I’m really glad Desmond is back, but I’m starting to notice how far the quality of the show has fallen since the early seasons. I just recently started watching the show from the beginning again w/ my roommate who has never watched the show before, and I can’t help but notice that the music, the directing, the cinematography, and everything else has dropped far from what it was in the first few seasons. In the early seasons they always knew when to slow it down and handle emotional scenes. The music was always cued perfectly for revelations and important or creepy scenes, and now the music isn’t very good and isn’t cued well with the scenes at all. The only thing that has remained consistent is the phenomenal acting of the cast (w/ the exception of the Minor characters who are awful, i.e. Whidmore’s henchmen & that hispanic guy on the Ajira flight). This whole final season just seems very rushed and very poorly put together compared with the earlier seasons, and with this being the end-all-be -all final season, I feel that this season should be the most dramatic, and it just isn’t. It’s seriously lacking the drama and danger from the earlier seasons. If you go back and watch the first 3 or 4 seasons, the Others and the freighter mercenaries are more menacing and seem way more of a threat than this MIB who is supposed to be evil incarnate.

    • Senator Ackbar

      If they could have done what was probably the original vision of the show without having to have the fourth and fifth seasons, the show probably would have been much tighter. As it stands, the entire Oceanic 6 storyline, combined with the Dharmaville time travelling was nothing more than an over glorified side quest in which they made more of a mess to clean up.

  • tabula rasa

    The rules don’t apply to Desmond. He is unique and special. These are both things we’ve been told.

    With the revelation that the Widmore group is looking for the pockets of electromagnetism, we finally have an idea of the endgame. They are looking to hit one of the remaining pockets of energy. The Hatch pocket is no more, due to the nuke set off in “The Incident”. The donkey wheel is one possibility, the other could be one we don’t know about yet.

    My theory is this. Desmond was brought to the Island for the purpose of setting off one of the pockets of electromagnetism in order to once again “move the Island” through time and space(Hurley alludes to this when they find Adam and Eve by asking what if they go back in time again). The reason Des has to do this is because the high dose of magnetism shouldn’t bother him anymore after he countered its effects in the epsiode “The Constant” by speaking to Penny in both his past and present timelines. Somehow this may give Desmond the third chance he asked for after the Island sent him back to 1996 and he screwed up his chance with Penny for the second time, prompting his plea for another chance when he wakes up back on Island naked.

    Here’s what I mean. If Desmond once again goes back in time to 1996 and in fact buys the ring and marries Penny, the Hatch which is being monitored by Kelvin no longer has a replacement to push the button. Therefore, if Kelvin decided to pull a Radzinsky, Desmomd is not there to push the button. He is not there to NOT push the button which leads to the crash of Oceanic 815, which ultimately brought more candidates to the Island to continue this ridiculous game between Jacob and MIB. This also means all the energy builds up to the critical point where the Island implodes and sinks. MIB can’t leave, Jacob is dead, and there are no more candidates to “play the game”.

    It’s a Back to the Future scenario, where Marty’s dad (of his own accord) has to punch Biff out and subsequently kiss her at the dance or the future timeline is screwed up. Just like the movie, we are seeing in the Flash-Sideways that some things are different but also the same, and in some cases our characters seem to have a better disposition in life than before even if their circumstances still kind of stink. In the end of the movie, Marty’s home life and parents are vastly different, because his father earns the love of his wife in a much different way than the original timeline. Similar to what we’ve seen so far of the 815 crew.

    • HollyP

      Interesting theory. I wonder what would happen to Richard in that future scenario?

  • I don’t know about everyone else, but what I disliked about last night’s episode was the fact that they didn’t replay/repeat last week’s episode with the special notes/greenbar to confirm the facts.

    Broke my heart…who gives a **** about Dancing with the Stars.

    • RodimusBen

      Well, more people watch it each week than watch LOST… how about you get off your high horse and just let people enjoy what they want to watch? Not only that, but putting DWTS before LOST appears to have boosted LOST’s ratings by over a million viewers this week– which is not only good for LOST, but goes to show that there are plenty of people out there who can enjoy both types of shows.

  • Kier

    Did anyone else have the darn “V” promo on the screen the whole time?

    • OtherJacob

      Thank god for Canadian television feeds! No “V” countdown timer. And we got the episode two hours earlier than everyone else!


    • MacCutcheon


    • Madge

      Yeah, that was ridiculous! Though I managed to get in to the show to the point where I didn’t notice it. Until it was covering something that needed to be read anyway.

  • The Smoke Monster

    Nowhere have I seen this written about yet, so let me just throw out there what must be obvious at this point, and that is that Flocke is rounding up the Candidates to leave the island with him because (1) he (apparently) can’t kill them (one of the “Rules” of the underlying Game, I suppose), and (2) he can’t afford to let any get promoted from Candidate to Protector of the Island or else he’s trapped there for another period of time. We know this right ?! I’m not a “LOST theorist” but I believe this much of Flocke’s motivation is known at this point.

  • OtherJacob

    THEORY!!! The Man In Black escaping the island will trigger a merger of the two timelines.
    – OT will merge into FST at a date/time determined by the direction the plane is flown away from the island (think “Shape of Things to Come” when the freighter doctor’s body washed up on shore before he was killed and thrown overboard).
    -Merging from one timeline into another allows memories/experiences to be retained subconsciously from the old line into the new line.

    – Widmore indicated that him leaving the island will cause everyone to “cease to exist” (dead).
    – Dying apparently results in your soul/psyche joining the alt. universe
    –Juliet’s dying words indicate meeting Sawyer in another world where “…we can go dutch”.
    –Miles reading Juliet’s last thoughts as “…it worked” (ie. Jughead)
    -Changes between FST and OST are post 1974 (most likely), not post flight 815
    -The constant sense of deja vu experienced by the 815ers in the FST world


    • tabula rasa

      I like this.

    • Raiders of the Lost Arzt

      I think it’s just the opposite. The new Jacob will merge the new timelines.

  • lostinnashville

    Flocke to crazy Claire: “Something wrong, Claire?” Hilarious.

  • Senator Ackbar

    Desmond probably is Wallace, 108. Widmore at some time in Desmond’s life probably gave him the name Hume – remember, Widmore gave the name Bentham to Locke – he seems to have a thing for handing out the names of philosophers. I would much rather see a flashback in the Island World going back to Desmond’s childhood, not a Sideways story for him.

    • kaptan36

      Wasn’t Wallace’s name crossed off. Do you Desmond is gonna become the Man In Black to Jack’s new Jacob role?

      • Madge

        I don’t think Des is a candidate, I think he’s just going to be necessary in keeping MIB on the island or destroying him all together.

      • Dharma Chameleon

        If Desmond is indeed Wallace (crossed off), he can still have a purpose on the island. I believe that crossed off doesn’t equal dead.

        I don’t feel that someone is going to replace flocke. He is the origninal “evil incarnate” and will continue to be.

        Did anyone else find it interesting that there are 6 locations EM and 6 candidates?

      • Handsome Smitty

        IF MIB survives, UnLOcke will be MIB to Jacob’s Hurley.

        But I think the Island will sink back at the bomb blast – perhaps for another reason – and sideways© will carry on, ending with Locke standing up as his gal walks down the aisle.

  • minnie swirl

    I didn’t think Ab Aeterno was one of the best LOST episodes ever. I was glad to see “The Package” return to the story of the core characters.

  • Vlad

    I think that smokey wins in the island timeline… he gets off the island, and everyone in that timeline will “cease to be” leaving the alt timeline as the only remaining possible reality. maybe some will be able to cross over. who knows.

    or, there is an aspect of the island reality that causes the losties to WANT to destroy that timeline, and they let smokey think he won in a double-cross… destroying him and the timeline he rode in on in one fell swoop, and knowing that they’ll have another chance in the alt-timeline.

  • kfitzer

    Seemed to me Desmond recognized Sayid. Seeing as Desmond was likely being held against his will, there’s no good reason for Desmond to blow Sayid’s cover.

  • OMG Smokey is losing control! So interesting as to the characters being inter-weaved in the sideways flash, as if no matter what the outcome is certain.

    “what ever happened, happened”

    Is Widmore planning to blow up the island?

  • flumfletta


    • Ajira Luggage

      It’s a fair question, and in fact I’d go further and say the whole relationship of Ben to Jacob and MiB needs to be explained a lot more.

  • flumfletta


    • HollyP

      No, Keamy does not mention the island. He said “what’s about to happen to you.” I watched it with CC on.

    • Dru

      I heard that too. I rewound it and closed captioned it…… Is that what he said?

  • Ajira Luggage

    Closed captioning is sometimes wrong. I’m not saying he said the island, maybe he didn’t, but you can’t use CC as a source because they periodically alter words or screw up.

    • flumfletta

      Agreed!! I think there playing with it!

  • best episode ever??? i dont think that i can say that… each episode is great but i didnt really like that one,sorry guys.
    anyway im interested to buy lost box set second hand…
    i already got the sopranos box set

  • BakedBob

    I found it to be an average episode compared to the previews ones..

    Yeah Des is back… the only one that can dive in a pocket of energy and then just wake up naked..(lol)

    I think that he (DES) will trigger a final time travel in the island,
    which will take us in a -very- special and epic era of the island..
    maybe show us (at last) its original inhabitands or creators..
    or how MIB and Jacob started all this after all.
    And it will all go down in that epic timeline in a somewhat “different” island…

    but…who knows… (Jacob does)

  • Raiders of the Lost Arzt

    There are 3 timelines, according to the paper that Ceasar found in Ben’s office. Real time, space time and imaginary time.

    • Ajira Luggage

      Is this in an episode or is this from one of those mobisode things? I’d like to rewatch it whereever it’s from.

      • Raiders of the Lost Arzt

        It was from the episode when Caesar and Ilana find Locke just after the plane crash sitting on the beach wearing a hooded robe.

  • Pantagathus

    Dudes, Dudettes… Umh so did anybody else pause on the sneak peak/tease for next week at the end of the episode? The part with the folks in the rowboat??? Jack & SAYID are rowing, Hurley, Sun & Kate are riding and Kate is holding something that looks like a swaddled child…

    • Pantagathus

      The Oceanic Six obviously but what does that have to do with next week’s episode?

    • Rams

      I think Kate may be holding Claire. Maybe Claire’s the one who gets shot by our time-traveling Pasties in S5??? Anyway, intriguing to see people from both camps in one canoe…

    • l-i-v-i-n

      its from the finale of season four dude

      • Rams

        My bad… 🙂

  • Kevin

    I think it’s safe to say it’s not flash sideways Des. I think it was doped up Des not really believing he was seeing Sayid in the water. To me, the look was more like “wtf brotha? Why are you hiding in the water?”

  • g.Narly

    Was it just me or did Keamy told Jin that he needed to tie him up before he found out what they were going to do to the island in the big refrigerator?

  • richie k

    just wondering, did anyone else wonder how smokie knew what widmore said to ben? about war coming to the island?

    • Rams

      Widmore said that to Locke. Smokey appears to have downloaded all of Locke’s memories and thoughts.

    • Andrew P.

      Nope. Smokey has all of Locke’s memories.

  • wnt2kno

    I thought this was one of the best episodes this season and i’m not a big Jin and Sun fan — I really like their alt story and teared up when Jin finally saw pictures of his daughter. Sun’s Korean tirade was excellent — they didnt even need the subtitles for it.